Lutheran Ping!
Posted on 04/22/2004 6:34:48 PM PDT by TonyRo76
Edited on 04/29/2004 2:04:14 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
MARSHALL, Texas (AP) -- Victims of a former Lutheran minister who sexually molested boys won a jury award of nearly $37 million Thursday, bringing the total payout in the case to about $69 million.
The case is the most serious to hit the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which has about 5 million members, and has drawn comparisons to the worst abuses committed during the Roman Catholic molestation crisis.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Never, ever, ever!!! should homosexual sodomite freak perverts be "tolerated" in their sinful behavior, or allowed within striking distance of innocent children. Especially by the CHURCH!!!
This is what the ELCA gets for its open-minded "enlightenment". Hold on for 2005!
The truth is, the perpetrators are homosexuals preying on young men who look up to them as authority figures. This is a "gay" problem, not a "pedophile" problem. Period.
This media propaganda based on the filtering of what is REALLY going on is sick. Let's see some figures comparing sexual abuse that detail age of the victims and male on male, versus male on female cases.
Of course, the media refuses to add the contextual aspect to any of these stories because it does not fit in with their liberal ideology.
What crap.
Absolutely, and a big BUMP to that! It was true in the RC church; it's true here, and it's true anyplace else we hear of "pedophilia" among preachers/teachers/coaches/counselors, etal.
I believe the media are willfully covering up for their favorite "minority"—the queers.
No. It's a sexual predator problem.
| What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda |
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| Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Version 1.1) |
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| Culture of Vice |
May be if they weren't concentrating on earth day and adding diversity, they would've had a handle on this.
Most of the Rest of Us know that many gays "like them young", so that there is no such distinction in the real world. That especially applies to gays who go after adolescents as opposed to youg children. But the liberal poobahs call anyone who refuses to go along with their politically correct fiction "bigots" and "homophobes".
The Rev. Mark Hanson, bishop of the Chicago-based Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, visited the state capitol recently to encourage Lutherans to be bold about their faith and become engaged politically on issues of justice and peace.
Hanson, elected bishop in 2001, leads 5 million Lutherans nationally. According to the Glenmary Research Center in Nashville, Tenn., about 39,000 people profess membership in the ELCA locally, making Lutherans the largest religious group in York County, followed closely by Roman Catholics and United Methodists.
Hanson's visit and 7 p.m. address March 29 in the state Capitol Rotunda marked 25 years of Lutheran advocacy in state capitols that began in Pennsylvania.
Before his speech, Hanson talked with the York Daily Record about the need for change and the importance of unity in the church, despite disagreement on some issues, such as the role of homosexuals in ministry.
The following is an excerpt of the hour-long discussion.
YDR: The title of your recent book, "Faithful Yet Changing: The Church in Challenging Times," is intriguing. Does this mean you think some changes are needed in the Lutheran Church?
Hanson: It is the dilemma of religious people today. To what do we hold and remain faithful? When are we called to change and when are we agents of change? ...
YDR: Do (Lutherans in) different parts of the country have different views?
Hanson: ... Folks don't tend to divide geographically or even denominationally as much as by their position on the issue. Whether it is the war in Iraq or the place of gay and lesbian people in society or how to respond to the needs of the poor, I think there is less and less clear denominational or geographical identification. ...
... How do the people of faith publicly disagree with each other and have conversations with each other about what is the right and just thing to do when there is no clear answer? We live in a time of incredible ambiguity and complexity. Most questions don't have neat, simple answers. ...
YDR: You are dealing with many of the same issues other denominations are struggling with.
Hanson: We are in the midst of a study of human sexuality right now. In 2005, we will vote on whether to retain our current standards on gay and lesbian people in ministry and whether we will have an official liturgical rite for the blessing of gay and lesbian unions, which we do not now have. In 2007, we will adopt a social statement on human sexuality.
YDR: Some people say the studies are backward and the social statement should come first.
Hanson (laughs): I agree. The assembly last summer voted again to keep it in this order ... One of my words of affirmation for our church is let's give ourselves credit that we have taken back from the culture the discussion of sexuality and are trying to put it in the context of faith and family relationships. Long ago, this culture took sexuality and commercialized it, trivialized it, objectified it. ... Most of us were not raised in homes where we learned how to talk about sexuality. ... My point is that now 5 million of us in our congregations are going to try to talk about something that we didn't get to talk about in our families where most of us were most secure and most loved. And so we don't know how to do it.
And yet if we don't talk about sexuality for fear that it is going to create stress and division, I think we are saying to the culture, "Well then you define sexuality for us." And I don't think we want to do that.
YDR: Some people say, "Well, we already defined it. Why are we putting topics up for debate that shouldn't be debated?" Do you hear that a lot?
Hanson: Oh, I do. I have been a parish pastor for 22 years and when we talk about sexuality, we're not talking about intercourse between husband and wife, we're talking about the fact that every human being from the moment we are born till we die are sexual beings. ... We are talking about the broad need for intimacy, and I think frankly most of us keep our multitasking, consuming life going so we don't have to stop and confront the fact that we are longing for intimacy, and we don't know how to name it. ...
YDR: Do you think it will be a divisive issue?
Hanson: It depends on how we frame the question. If we come to 2005 and force ourselves to say yes or no and winners and losers, then it will be at least polarizing if not dividing. ... Some will argue that conservatives are leaving to go to more conservative denominations and liberals are not going to wait for us to change — and will go to liberal denominations.
YDR: Are they going to nondenominational churches?
Hanson: Yes. And that's another phenomena. I think the numerical decline of Lutherans has much more to do with three things: Lutherans are shy and not bold about sharing their faith. We simply got lazy for many, many years and wanted the culture to produce Christians for us. We said, well, we'll build a church, we'll get a pastor and we'll open the doors and people will show up. It's not that way anymore. So we became very complacent and also reticent to talk to our neighbors, to talk to our kids, to talk to our colleagues at work and our classmates at school about our faith. ...
The second reason is we are 94 percent white in an increasingly diverse, richly multiracial, multicultural context, and we have not known how to share our faith with people of other cultures and receive the faith from people of other cultures. Too often we have said, "Sure, we want to become diverse," but the hidden message is if you are an African-American and show up in a Lutheran church ... then you better become like us European Americans. ... But there are signs of hope. Twenty-eight different languages were spoken yesterday in Lutheran churches in New York City. That is, we have started that many different churches for ethnic-specific groups so they can worship in their own language. Our goal is 40. Ultimately 50. ...
A third reason is we are not connecting with the emerging generation. ... We used to sit and wait for young adults to kind of rebel for a while, leave the church and "Well, they'll get married, have babies and come back." Well, guess what? They're not coming back.
YDR: Why is that?
Hanson: In part because they are not genetically predisposed to be Lutheran. I would be thankful if mine were Christian, if they were living out the Christian faith in a community. So that kind of denominational loyalty just isn't there. In fact, I am far less concerned about denominational loyalty than I am about my kids living in a community of faith where faith is nurtured. ...
Our research is showing that the major reason people join an ELCA church or leave it is whether their personal needs are being met. In other words, people are coming to church as consumers, not as members. ...We call it church shopping. So how do we acknowledge we are a church in a consumer-oriented culture and yet not sell the soul of the church for the sake of getting our market share? I think that's always been the dilemma of the people of God in every era. When do we become part of the culture and when do we say we must stand against the culture?
YDR: Do you think a church then should change more so it can make these connections?
Hanson: Yes ... I think we proclaim the same story that has been proclaimed 2,000 years of God's love in Christ for the whole world. We gather around the Word that is the stories of people of God recorded in scripture. We keep central the meal of communion and baptism, and yet around that, we need to change. ...
It starts with the individual members. That they will be more bold in sharing their faith and inviting others to come and hear the story of Jesus. ... We are called to be a public church, engaged in the world, doing God's work of justice, mercy and peace. ... We're told faith is a private matter; you can believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. You keep it to yourself, I'll keep it to myself. And that's not my understanding of what it means to be the people of God.
LOL! Nicely said.
I was talking with a friend of mine the other night, who's Catholic. We were discussing how some "liberal Catholics" will vote for F'in Kerry, etc. But he stopped and corrected me: "y'know Tony, either a person is Catholic or they're something else. No genuine Catholic is gonna support homosexual/abortionist crap..."
Not only was he right, but as you've pointed out, the same applies to every sincerely Christian faith tradition. A real Lutheran church doesn't condone sodomy, accept Evilution, cater to feminazis, or in general behave like the ELCA.
Just like that Gorelick broad sitting on the 9/11 commission. What a joke!!
Im not a pervert or anything, but I might be willing to be "molested" for US 70 Million in CASH!
Woe unto those who call evil ‘good’!
LOL! Amen, brother.
The media are well aware of this pattern; they simply ignore or don't report it. As I've said before, the media are willfully covering up for their favorite "minority"—the queers.
Buried in all that BS, I'd missed this nugget the first time. So now Hanson's a racial/ethnic bean-counter as well?
I've always found it very puzzling how some people would divide the church according to race or ethnicity. This is a "Black church" or that's a "German church"...I mean, what in the heck? How does this all square with John 17, where Christ prays that we may be ONE?!?
And my thoughts on all the language business were spelled out in a tagline I used for a long time, which I've restored here in this instance...
That's been their focus since they organized.
They come up with a bunch of stupid ideas to try and attract diversity. MEanwhile, the base membership is running away. 50 languages????
Exactly! This is the United States, and we speak English here.
I fail to see why a church, of all entities, wouldn't want to help its adherents by enabling them to gain access to the mainstream of American society by learning our common language.
This an other similar issues is exactly why we left the ELCA years ago. We're now LC Missouri Synod.
That was the whole point of that laughably absurd, pathetically ignorant article in Time ragazine a couple weeks ago. They wrote off the Atonement as a "traditional theory" not held anymore by "modern scholars" etc.
Pure horsepuckey, but such is the shallow take on Christian teachings in the pop "news" media.
Works for me!
Not ours anymore. We've yanked the funds earmarked for the ELCA, and are banking them for future benevolence toward mission ventures that truly advance the Great Commission.
I pray for them to hold their faith and leave the "church".
They have to if they want to hold their faith. The relationship with the National Council of Churches is the basis of the decay.
No. It's a homosexual problem and coincides with the homosexual agenda for America: get your perverted hands on the youngsters!
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