Donated bodies blown up by Army

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-1/107891295976540.xml ^

[Stew Padasso]

When Tulane University found itself with a temporary oversupply of cadavers that had been donated to science a few years ago, the school did what it usually does: It called a cadaver broker.

Tulane said it assumed the broker would ship the bodies to other universities, where medical students would dissect them.

[Stew Padasso]

"He blowed up REAL GOOD!

[IGOTMINE]

It seems I saw this story a few years ago?

[Delta 21]

I would rather have my body (after I'm done with it) blown to bits to further technology and help design some new hi-tech gear to save soldiers lives on the battlefield, than laid out on a table and disected.

....but thats just me.

[Kirkwood]

Cadaver research that will lead to fewer injured American GIs seems like legitimate medical research to me. Tulane still is smarting from their association with DOD research using animals to minimize head injuries on the battlefield.

[Buck W.]

Bad news for John Kerry. They would have voted Democraat.

[Objective Reality]

"He blowed up REAL GOOD!

Thanks for just making me honk snot all over my monitor.

Allow me to speak for most of twisted America's psyche when I say, about this story:

Neat!

[texasflower]

It is surprisingly easy to get a cadaver for study. I used to teach paramedic students. Part of their training was to learn how to insert an endotracheal tube.

Many hospitals do not allow students to practice on live patients (almost always on surgical patients requiring an ET tube).

As a result, instructors and coordinators often have to find alternative training methods.

I received a brochure from a major medical school that would provide a cadaver for my student's use and they would maintain the body at their lab or I could take the body myself.

It was only 1000.00 for a year.

Fortunately, I was able to find a hospital that would allow my students to do their intubation practice in the OR.

[Experiment 6-2-6]

Every profession has dishonest people," she said. "They live everywhere, and thank goodness they're the minority."

Somewhere, somehow I think this person needs to redefine dishonest people.. One should never be amazed at how many bad people there are out there. One should be amazed at how many good people there are. Unfortunately, that number is not the majority..

At first I thought the Army was using this to give instructions and knowledge to it's medical staff as to the nasty effects of land mines, and any subsequent first aid or surgical requirements. Upon reading, it's determining the protective effects of a boot.

Either way, rather a cadaver than a boy named sue...

[Richard-SIA]

So providing the Army with the real world material they need in order to develop boots that will help to keep our troops alive and whole is not ethical?

[Tribune7]

"How would you feel if your mother's body was donated to science . . . and she ends up being thrown on a land mine?

As opposed to what? Dissection?

[Old Professer]

I done tole' everbody, my body ain't bein' used nowhere for nothin' after I'm gone; ain't gone be fit for nothin' then nohow.

[scarface367]

So providing the Army with the real world material they need in order to develop boots that will help to keep our troops alive and whole is not ethical?

Not if you're a whiny liberal that could care less about our troops

[primeval patriot]

Army Pathologists are people too.

[Old Professer]

You practice that crap!!?? What happens after the third or fourth try?

[Riley]

I think I'll see if I can get my body to star in "Weekend at Riley's". Long after I have shuffled off this mortal coil, my body can party on- and probably making more money than I did in life, too. :-)

[Chewbacca]

Just prop you up by the jukebox when you die, huh?

[texasflower]

The endotracheal tube isn't a tracheotomy. It just goes into the trachea either through the nose or mouth. It doesn't open the skin like a tracheotomy does.

With a cadaver, unless some sort of damage occurs the tube can be inserted and withdrawn any number of times. (Ahem, I mean the endotracheal tube.)

To damage the passageway, someone would have to be really, really overaggressive.

In surgeries, the students are supervised by an anesthesiologist. If they make a mistake, the tube can be reinserted properly. Under proper supervision, it really is safe for the patient. Surgical patients that are intubated by students are going to get intubated anyway. (having any surgeries soon?)

This way at least, the paramedic can intubate a patient in the field properly.

I owned a reputable school, so all of my students were able to intubate live patients in some of the Houston area hospitals.

I went to paramedic school at the University of Texas. We had a lot of really good training opportunities.

I maintained a lot of my contacts from my training and I was able to get really good opportunities for my students.

[thoughtomator]

The army should use dead jihadis

[lainde]

Of course they have to practice. It's a tough procedure to learn. On a live patient, it's a race against time without oxygen as you're trying to "get in".

[lainde]

---To damage the passageway, someone would have to be really, really overaggressive.---

We can have a little quibble on this one:~) Tracheal stenosis is almost 99% iatrogenic. Over the years, I'm surprised by how many cases I've seen from (nonaggressive) intubations from elective surgeries.

[texasflower]

I was referring to the cadaver when I spoke about damage rendering it impossible to continue repeat intubation practice.

I had in mind tears to the trachea, larynx damage and so on.

Even ruptures could be sutured and then the body could be used over and over.

Certainly damage can and does occur to live patients from aggressive intubation.

I'll have to re-read my post. I thought it was clear that I had transitioned to talking about cadavers.

Thanks for pointing that out! I wouldn't want to be misleading.

[lainde]

No need to reread...It's not your post. It's late and I should realize I'm personally preoccupied with this subject. A good friend is having his second surgery next month to repair tracheal damage from an "elective" GB surgery. Best regards...lainde

[texasflower]

My very best wishes for your friend. I'll send some prayers up for him right now.

Tammy

[Old Professer]

If I'm going to be billed $1,000 hr by an anesthesiologist, I don't want a part time fireman sticking something down my airway.

[Old Professer]

Win some, lose some?

[texasflower]

Many medical facilities help to train allied health professionals.

EMS personnel receive extensive training and education that involves anatomy and physiology in great detail as well as practice on a specially designed manikin prior to any clinical experiences.

Manikin training is good, but alone it is not enough.

I would much rather have EMS personnel get experience under the extremely watchful eye of an anesthesiologist and then go on to use that skill to save lives in the field, than to send them out without any idea of what they are doing.

The anesthesiologist watches very, very carefully. Not every hospital trains students. If you are very worried about it, then tell him/her ahead of time. Your wishes will be honored.

I will say this though. The lead anesthesiologist at a very prominent hospital told me that he was more comfortable with EMS students than with some of the medical students and nurse anesthetist students.

If you suffered an event outside of a hospital, the difference may well be the difference between life and death.

In my 22 years experience, I have seen hundreds of people saved because of that procedure being performed correctly.

I must say that while I understand what you are trying to say, I resent the implication in your post.

Training is extensive and quality testing as well as ongoing retesting and education help to ensure that the person "sticking something down your throat" is well qualified to do so.

EMS personnel are committed to quality care. This "part time fireman" thing is not fair. For one thing, most are professionals in medical care. I was full time, not fire department affiliated.

Those part time firemen put their lives on the line every day. They do very heroic things in order to save lives and property. If they truly are the part timers, they most likely are volunteers. That's a lot of risk to do for free.

Most of us were not part time. That was my profession and I took it very seriously.

Every medical professional, in every field of practice must go through hands-on training with real patients.

Even your 1000.00/hr anesthesiologist must go through it.

A paramedic has to be able to do this in a moving ambulance, chaotic scene, through blood, in the dark, sometimes upside down and any number of challenging situations.

Trust me on this, you do not want a person who is not experienced to do this to you or a member of your family.

That's why this sort of clinical experience is crucial. must be done.

[Old Professer]

I'm sure you got the signed permission from the patient or his family before the practice session, right?

[texasflower]

Actually, yes.