Posted on 02/23/2004 9:23:41 AM PST by blam
Edited on 04/29/2004 2:03:57 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Read again, I never said they invented them. They did make great contributions in those fields that are undeniable except to the Muslim-hating historical revisionist.
Muslims didn't conquer India or China (zero and paper, respectively), yet they got and refined ideas from them. The zero had been invented, but its importance and full application to algebra had not yet been explored, and Chinese paper was useless in Europe where there is no silk, so Muslims figured out how to use cotton instead. Their medical knowledge, however, is pretty much their own doing.
You forget that Arab culture was that of traders who tended to bring not only merchandise but ideas from the trading partners. Your hatred is not allowing you to admit that Islam had a thriving, productive culture until the 13th century, at a time when European knowledge was stagnant.
I think the 'Egyptians' have gone through 2-3 racial/cultural cycles since the pyramid construction began. They're not the same people they once were. The same will happen in this country in the same period of time.
Yup, I'm old school, BC and AD still work for me.
The cultural centers of Christianity were in the Greek speaking East - where the first Ecumenical Councils took place and where the Greek Fathers of the Church worked. Muslims conquered those lands and until they ruined them, they benefited from the knowledge of the enslaved population.
Your hatred is not allowing you to admit that Islam had a thriving, productive culture until the 13th century, at a time when European knowledge was stagnant.
Your ignorance of history is not a result of my hating anyone. You do know that the largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia, right? Why don't you start with a google on the Mughal Empire (hint: it's the Muslim Indian Empire).
Funny how the systematic intellectual inquiry into the Koran itself is forbidden. Ever wonder why there are no Muslim theologians? They get murdered for their irreverence.
A systematic, historical perspective on the Koran, set against the backdrop of Mohammed's life, reveals it for what it is-- an endorsement and justification by "god" to engage in rape, torture, murder, plunder, child abuse and power hungry ambition.
I didn't know Al Gore was a Muslim!
On the other hand, Muslim contributions seem to have tapered off to pretty much nothing after the 13th century.
By sheer coincidence (D'OH!) about the time their success at "conquering" sort of took a dive and islam had been pretty much stopped in its tracks.
No muslim conquered area ever produced anything distinctly muslim in the sciences or technology once the blanket of absolute submission and snuffing out of individual initiative was instituted.
They were merely very good librarians and exploiters of other people's intellectual products.
Don't forget the Elgin marbles, an ancient non-muslim treasure which was purchased while it was being ground to powder to produce cement... by muslims. They sure had an eye for classical art and science, all right.
As for muslim-hating... let's judge people by what they do. On that level islam has no place in civilized society; any hatred is not only deserved, but on a human level almost required.
So you will hate everyone of a religion because of the fanatics. Remove the Wahabbis and the modern-day violence of Muslims will drop drastically. Unfortunately, our country is allied with that sect's biggest supporter, Saudi Arabia.
Not quite. They did translate many works of the lands they conquered, but they, like good scientists and scholars, built their own works on top of them. Unlike the Christian world at that time, there were large libraries which people could access, texts for which people would likely be burned as a heretic for possessing in Christian Europe.
Works by people of the regions occurred after conversion, because unlike today's fundamentalist Muslims, the society encouraged knowledge and inquiry. The greatest university of the time was in Baghdad, which you will find that the greatest Muslim scholars and scientists attended.
By sheer coincidence (D'OH!) about the time their success at "conquering" sort of took a dive
The Battle of Tours is considered the turning point for Muslim expansion in Europe, yet most of the Muslim advancements occurred after 732. It was about a hundred years after their initial expansion that they really settled down and started learning.
The Muslim contact with Indonesia was purely trade. Over time people converted to the new religion from the majority Hindu, and when the kings started converting the region went Muslim. This fact must put a dent in your Muslim-hating belief that all Muslim countries had Islam forced on them by swordpoint.
The Muslims discovered how lucrative Indonesian trade could be 400 years before the Dutch. Of course, the Christian Dutch just took everything by force instead of friendly trading. The Portugese and Spaniards did try to force Christianity on the conquered people, but the region remains mostly Muslim.
From the way you keep repeating that I hate Muslims, I must assume that you have some kind of deep-seated fear of non-Muslims.
Also, you ducked my point. How did Muslim traders reach Indonesia? By transporter beam? They conquered the intervening nations to make southeastern Asia available to them, whether your non-Muslim hatred admits it or not.
No, I simply don't like hate. I know Christians did a lot of nasty stuff too, but I don't hold that against modern Christians, nor will I dismiss any advances made by Christians because of their other faults.
They conquered the intervening nations to make southeastern Asia available to them
You seemed to imply that Indonesia was conquered by the Muslims, while it was not. It was peaceful trade, unlike that other Religion of Peace which subjugated Java, massacred its people and stole its wealth. They even burned whole crops of cloves the people were growing in order to keep the supply down and therefore the price up in Europe.
That's not to say Muslims didn't do their own nastiness in other areas, but Indonesia/Java was a very bad example for you to bring up.
Muslims didn't conquer India or China (zero and paper, respectively), yet they got and refined ideas from them.
While they didn't conquer China or Indonesian, they certainly did conquer India and many other countries. This made other countries accessible to aggressive social intervention.
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