Posted on 02/14/2004 9:27:39 AM PST by optimistically_conservative
sorry, but JL was never a self-promoter....
the media, and the Army....wanted a hero type....
if she was such a shameless self-promoter, she would be making all the rounds in the media, but I think she has basically just slipped away quietly....
I am happy that both these two soldiers made it home.....
Exactly.
Did you see post #3? This article had nothing to do with Jessica Lynch, yet she is dragged in just to bash her.
Yeah, I saw the poster had already been chastised by others here. :^)
Nonetheless, they have proven to be very neccessary as covert operatives- and the danger of capture is equally high, if not greater, but in the case of inserted operatives hope for escape if captured is usually nil.
There are a few folks - some female- who really have proven to be heroes in this conflict with Iraq since '91 but who will remain nameless for decades if not longer owing to their particular job description.
There is not a numerical restriction on the awards that can be given out during an operation. As you go up the award tree, there is supposed to be a higher criteria which limits the number of awards at the top compared to the bottom. It is somewhat a subjective process at the whim of the leadership.
Awards, without knowing the person and the events leading to the award, speak little on thier own (although I remain in strict admiration of CMOH recipients). This is sad, but has been historically true, and the context of the award remains more important than the award itself. Too many deserving were not awarded for extraneous considerations of rank, race, favoritism and quotas, among others.
There is a perceived difference in the military between service awards (did a good job) and impact awards (a distinguishing act) and some awards are exclusively peacetime awards or wartime.
For example, the Achievement Medal and Commendation Medal can be awarded during peace or war. During war the Commendation Medal can be awarded for merit (slick) or valor (w/ V device).
The Meritorious Service Medal is a peacetime only medal, and is replaced by the (slick) Bronze Star for meritorious service. So, when I was in the first Gulf war, my unit used a policy that lower enlisted ranks got Achievement Medals, NCOs and LTs/Staff CPTs got (slick) Commendation Medals and MAJs/above got (slick) Bronze Stars. A Bronze Star for Valor (w/ V device) is normally awarded for a distinguishing act during combat. Most commanders will go with a Bronze Star w/ V over a Commendation Medal w/ V.
Silver Stars are rare (third highest wartime award), are always for a distinguishing act in combat (valor), and there is no V device.
I've been wanting to know more about Kerry's Silver Star. From what I've read so far, it was an inflated award for the act. But, like I said, it's a subjective process.
I know nothing about "Swift Boat" tactics so I can't judge the veracity of this letter. Maybe a more knowledgeable classmate can shine some light on this. It was forwarded to me by a high school classmate, USNA grad ('59) and Rear Admiral (Ret.) Walt Plaue
----- Original Message -----
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:17 PM
Subject: John Kerry...You decide
Sent to me by an old shipmate ...
I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.
Here are my problems and suspicions:
(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.
(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
Something is fishy.
Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.
I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.
Mike
Well, what I think is going on is that she is being blamed for the Wash. Post's b.s. story about her being 'rambo girl.' Even though she didn't make those claims herself and was hospitalized for months and unable to clear the record, the story is attached to her and she takes more heat for it than the reporters or their convieniently unnamed source.
Also, some people resent the medals she was given, especially the Bronze Star. She did deserve the POW medal and Purple Heart, but there doesn't seem to be any basis for the Bronze Star. The other POWs also received Bronze Stars and PFC Miller, who actually took out several Iraqi soldiers got a Silver Star. The soldiers who took a wrong turn in Bosnia and were captured and the crew of the surveilance plane that landed on Chinese territory after being clipped by a Chinese MIG also revieved medals. If these medals are being awarded for the wrong reasons, the military is to blame, but Jessica Lynch seems to get the blame as if she demanded her medals.
Then there is the book and tv movie. She didn't perticipate in the movie and wasn't paid for it, but few people seem to know that. She didn't get $1 Million for her book, but rather split the million with her co-author, but few seem to grasp that either. Many former POWs and ex soldiers have written books as well, but for some reason Jessica Lynch is called a profiteer when she writes one.
There is also a claim many seem to like making that she was showered with so much attention because she is a pretty blonde girl. As if there is any shortage of those. I say that if she walked out with the other POWs and climbed onto the helicopter under her own power and walked off the airplane with the rest of them back here in the U.S., she would have been at most a minor story, no bigger than the rest of her fellow POWs.
How about that? Clear heads and common sense prevail eventually.
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