Dems seek charges in leak probe

The Hill ^ | February 10, 2004 | Alenxander Bolton and Geoff Earle

[GraceCoolidge]

Except that I don't think a memo qualifies as "communication." In most unauthorized access laws with which I'm familiar, you need to be intercepting something like a telephone conversation... a communication that is ongoing at the time, not something stagnant, like a document. In addition, if the Democrats left these memoranda unrestricted on a general server, it would seem to me that the access was thereby "authorized" by that lapse, albeit inadvertently. What if these memoranda had been accidentally faxed to a Republican office, rather than a Democratic one? Would it have been criminal/unethical to read the fax?

[reformedliberal]

Sorry...I tend to get into shorthand mode on some topics

---

[...]
U.S. Senate staffer Manuel Miranda, who resigned Friday under pressure after U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) launched an investigation into the source of the leak of condemning memos written by his staffers, revealed today Durbin himself may be under investigation for leaking classfied information.

Last autumn, memos written by Democrat staffers to Senate and Judiciary Committee members Durbin and Ted Kennedy (D-MA) were secretly released to the Wall Street Journal and became the topic of national scrutiny.

The memos revealed the intent by Democrats to kill the Circuit Court nomination by President Bush of Miguel Estrada specifically because Estrada was conservative and Hispanic.
[...]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1074836/posts

[hchutch]

It seems like Miranda was telling other aides about the memos, but NOBODY seems to have told Hatch or Frist about these memos, particularly since at least one that is public knowledge involved something close to fixing a case.

The stuff in some of these memos is NOT stuff that I would just tell other staffers about - I'd be going right to the top. PARTICULARLY given the details of the Sixth Circuit nominees being delayed at the behest of the NAACP until the Michigan case was decided. That assertion alone leads me to believe that Miranda did NOT promptly inform Hatch and/or Frist about this.

What is also interesting is that staffers for the Dems were told that these documents were available - and they did nothing to protect them AFTER being so informed. This does seem to lift some of the doubts I had about Mr. Miranda's actions. I think the Dems are really scared about the memos and they want to shut Miranda up.

I'm in a wait-and-see mode until I see the rest of the memos, but I think Miranda's firing is something that was necessary. This is the type of thing I take to the Senator I worked for IMMEDIATELY - and this is why I think Frist is forcing him out. You ought to let your boss know about stuff like this. I certainly would have, and if someone who WORKED for me acted the way Miranda did, I'd be forcing him out, too.

[hchutch]

From what I gather, the Dems were informed and did nothing. In that case, I think the GOP staffers are, for the most part, off the hook.

However, I think Miranda should have told Hatch the INSTANT he came across something that indicated unethical or illegal activity was going on.

[backhoe]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015980/posts

MemoGate- sedition, slander-- or something worse?
Various FR links | 11-06-03 | The Heavy Equipment Guy

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015980/posts

MemoGate- sedition, slander-- or something worse?
Various FR links | 11-06-03 | The Heavy Equipment Guy

[Poohbah]

Rule One for ensuring smooth, happy employment:

"Thou shalt not allow thy boss to be blind-sided."

[antiRepublicrat]

Except that I don't think a memo qualifies as "communication." In most unauthorized access laws with which I'm familiar, you need to be intercepting something like a telephone conversation.

There is more than one law that can be used if these aren't considered communication -- others also deal specifically with obtaining access and/or information from government computers without authorization. The authorization in the laws is never stated as computer-enforced authorization, but just authorization. Even if the computer security setup allowed them to see the documents, they were still not authorized to see those documents. Immediately (not much later) notifying the Dims of the breach, and thereafter attempting no further access would probably protect them from prosecution, but they didn't do either.

[hchutch]

I agree.

That's why he's got to get canned. Based on what I have seen/heard now, a lot of the doubts about his conduct are lifted. But it looks like he let Hatch and Frist get blind-sided by these memos, based on his own statement.

That's why Frist is giving him up. Not to placate the Dems, but because Miranda let him down big-time by NOT promptly informing himself or Senator Hatch about this.

[antiRepublicrat]

excerpt from Miranda's resignation letter:

Total CYA. The law I'm reading says nothing about a requirement to enforce a certain level of security in order for there to be a criminal offense. However, there could be other conflicting laws that I haven't found.

[af_vet_1981]

A prosecutor can make a case simply according to the law: they were electronic communications, and access was unauthorized. As the law reads, an actual hack is unnecessary.

These comments were electronic communications and the access to read them was not explicitly authorized to anyone but antiRepublicrat.

[hchutch]

Perhaps, but CYA just might be enough. Plus, the Dems really don't want to push that. If Miranda send out the rest of those memos, Durbin and Kennedy could be in hot water.

The thing I don't understand is why Hatch was NOT immediately told of this. It seems like common sense to keep your boss from getting blind-sided. Based on his letter, I don't think he told either of them about these memos. And that, IMO, is why Frist cut him loose.

[antiRepublicrat]

The thing I don't understand is why Hatch was NOT immediately told of this.

I'll bet he was. This staffer is just the fall guy. He'll be compensated somehow.

[antiRepublicrat]

These comments were electronic communications and the access to read them was not explicitly authorized to anyone but antiRepublicrat.

You posted that with the obvious understanding that it could be read by all. Dim staffers saved those documents not knowing they could be read by others due to a security glitch.

[af_vet_1981]

You posted that with the obvious understanding that it could be read by all. Dim staffers saved those documents not knowing they could be read by others due to a security glitch.

Oh, I thought that the To line restricted access to my comments to only those I specifically addressed them to ... It must be a security glitch ...

[hchutch]

If Hatch was told immediately, then why wouldn't Miranda say so? It doesn't add up.

Frist and Hatch, based on what I have seen, did not know about these memos until that Wall Street Journal editorial and the Washington Times story.

Miranda is a fall guy, but cutting him loose is something I think Frist was going to do anyway. Frist and Hatch were apparently blindsided by the revelation of those memos.

[Starboard]

It would be nice if Republicans would play offense once in awhile instead of constantly being in a defensive posture. I suppose that an adversarial press has had a lot to do with contributing to this mindset.

[antiRepublicrat]

If Hatch was told immediately, then why wouldn't Miranda say so? It

To protect his extremely powerful boss who could kill any career in politics he may have envisioned for himself.

Frist and Hatch, based on what I have seen, did not know about these memos until that Wall Street Journal editorial and the Washington Times story.

Two words: Plausible Deniability

[antiRepublicrat]

Oh, I thought that the To line restricted access to my comments to only those I specifically addressed them to ... It must be a security glitch ...

We all know the To is just a ping to the person, with the post readily readable by anyone. A congressman or staffer doesn't necessarily know that by putting his memos in his folder on the server, they would be readable by all. The setup where I work is not readable.

[af_vet_1981]

We all know the To is just a ping to the person, with the post readily readable by anyone.

Is that what happens on email when I hit the send button ... ? Ruh - roh ...

[antiRepublicrat]

Is that what happens on email when I hit the send button ... ? Ruh - roh ...

You're getting rediculous since email as normally used (and file shares as normally used) is not a public forum.