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Two Cars and One View
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel ^ | 1/25/04 | John Schmid

Posted on 01/25/2004 5:35:32 AM PST by ninenot

Of all the sights he witnessed on an eight-day trip this month through fast-changing China, it was a new subcompact Chevy that gave veteran Congressman F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. the greatest reason to come home feeling disgruntled.

Chevrolet designed its zippy Spark solely for domestic Chinese buyers and builds it in its factories on the mainland. But no sooner did the Spark arrive in showrooms last year than a strikingly similar model called the Chery QQ appeared on the nation's crowded streets under the trademark of the rival Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp., an indigenous Chinese automaker.

To Sensenbrenner, a Republican from Menomonee Falls who is one of the most vocal congressional opponents of free trade with China, the Spark-QQ controversy only confirmed that Chinese companies flagrantly disregard American trademarks, software patents and intellectual property rights.

General Motors Corp., Chevrolet's parent company, is investigating the matter, a GM spokesman said. SAIC, one of the success stories in China's fast-growing auto market, denies it stole Chevy's design.

"If you didn't have the name tags on the car, you couldn't tell them apart," charged Sensenbrenner, who visited a GM plant in Shanghai. "It's such a knockoff that you can pull a door off of the Chevy Spark and it fits on the QQ - and it fits so well that the seals on the door hold. But there's no air bag on the QQ."

The two look-alike models also illustrate the narrow limits of Washington's influence over U.S.-China economic ties.

Ever since the administration of President George W. Bush's father more than a decade ago, the United States has kept pressure on China on the issue of product piracy. And yet, according to Sensenbrenner, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, which oversees enforcement of patent rights, "The Chinese steal intellectual property right and left."

Political analysts in Washington concur that the U.S. has relatively restricted leverage over China on free trade and job issues. Reasons vary from China's authority as the emergent political anchor of Asia to its newfound influence as an industrial powerhouse and its role in financing America's surging debt and deficits.

China's export juggernaut has become a vexing political quandary in the industrial states of the Great Lakes and the Carolinas, which in turn represent some of the key battleground states in this election year. Elected officials frequently issue tough-sounding statements that charge China with unfair trade practices, analysts say, because they don't want to appear entirely powerless while their districts bleed jobs and voters lose both income and health insurance.

Sensenbrenner, who has a record as one of the most protectionist members of Congress when it comes to China, is seldom at a loss for words on the issue. But when asked in an interview what American politicians can do to preserve American jobs, he replied: "It is a very difficult question."

With China's entry into the World Trade Organization, which lowers trade barriers for its 146 member nations, "we let the horse out of the barn," the congressman said.

Imports of made-in-China electronics, auto parts and shoes have created the biggest trade deficit that the U.S. has ever accumulated with another nation. Manufacturers have eliminated more than 2,250 jobs in the U.S. on average each day throughout the last 41 months even as many of those same companies added work in low-wage nations such as China, India, Vietnam and Brazil.

Congress left door open

For two decades Congress has voted consistently to keep trade ties with China wide open, Sensenbrenner said, because lawmakers heed the lobbyists who work for big multinational corporations that profit from China's vast market and its cheap labor.

"The large multinationals want very badly to open the Chinese market," he said.

Referring to Washington's political establishment, Sensenbrenner said: "They have not been representing the interest of the small- and medium-sized enterprises. Wisconsin is full of SME's and they are the ones being clobbered by trade with China."

Congress paid for Sensenbrenner's Jan. 5-12 tour of the mainland so that he could "complain" to the Chinese about a list of what he calls unfair trade practices. High on his list is trademark infringement. "I was over there to see how the Chinese could get away with stealing intellectual property without any consequences."

Sensenbrenner "seldom goes to China," according to his spokesman, Rajesh Bharwani. "Prior to this trip, he last went to China in 1997 or 1998 on a science trip because he was chairman of the House Science Committee at that time." Sensenbrenner traveled to neighboring Taiwan and Thailand last year to insist that local officials clamp down on music and movie piracy.

Sensenbrenner goaded the small-business community to remain vocal in pressing its case to Washington. American consumers can take action by minding where they spend their dollars, Sensenbrenner said.

"American consumers will have to recognize their responsibility. The more dollars we send to China, the more money they have to do their economic renovations," Sensenbrenner said.

As for government action, complaining is one of the remaining avenues of action for the U.S., Sensenbrenner said, while adding that American firms seldom file formal complaints with either the WTO, the global trade rules-making body, or the Beijing government.

"They are afraid of retaliation by communist officialdom there," he said. That leaves the Chinese authorities unaware of the extent of the problem, he said. "Their answer is: 'What's the problem? No one's complaining.' "

Dangers of software theft

One of his biggest worries is that Chinese factory managers are pirating American software to make their plants as efficient as those in the U.S., Japan or Western Europe. And that makes software theft a Midwestern manufacturing issue, he said.

"If China's output becomes as productive as the rest of the world, there's going to be no manufacturing left in the rest of the world," Sensenbrenner said. In Mexico, long considered a low-cost rival to U.S. production, President Vicente Fox, "on his own volition, complained bitterly about the Chinese pirating jobs out of Mexico," the congressman said.

Beijing understands that trademark theft is a major problem, but lacks the courts, police and legal disincentives to shut it down, said John Holden, president of the National Committee on United States-China Relations, a non-partisan group that promotes Sino-U.S. dialogue.

"The Chinese cracked down on pirated DVD production in a big way recently," Holden said. "Guess what happened? A lot of it moved to Taiwan."

For many Midwest industries, however, trademark piracy remains a secondary irritant to the real competitive threat, which is the globalization of labor.

Analysts attribute China's ascent as an economic powerhouse to not only its inexhaustible supply of cheap labor, but also the high quality of its goods, the efficiency of its factories and the growing sophistication of its managers.

Against China's entry-level wages alone, U.S. workers can hardly compete.

"It's not just very hard to compete with 27 cents an hour. You cannot - you just cannot - compete with 27 cents an hour," Sensenbrenner said, referring to common Chinese factory pay.

It doesn't matter which party makes policy in Washington, Sensenbrenner said. In fact, the last seven presidential administrations have taken pains to avoid confrontation with China.

It came as little surprise to Sensenbrenner that Democratic presidential candidate Dick Gephardt took the most stridently protectionist stand to save jobs, winning key trade union endorsements. But the Missouri congressman dropped out of the race last week after a weak showing in the Iowa caucuses.

"Gephardt was the most protectionist in nature and he was the first to bite the dust," Sensenbrenner said.

Congress is hardly alone in conceding the limits of its authority.

No easy solutions

The U.S.-China Business Council, which acts as the premier trade group for Sino-U.S. trade, bluntly says the changes to the global economy are so unprecedented, deep and recent that they defy easy remedy.

"This is a large structural change," said Robert Kapp, president of the Washington-based lobby group.

"I don't have the answer to it," Kapp said. "I don't think Congress has the answer to it. I don't think the White House has the answer to this. And probably neither does Sensenbrenner."

As traditional labor-intensive work goes abroad, non-political observers argue that the answer lies in training U.S. workers for the digital economy.

"You don't want to stifle innovation," Holden said. "You encourage it to stay here. And you protect intellectual property rights. Stuff will get invented here and protected here because we can protect it. And that's a big advantage that we have."

Sensenbrenner paid a visit to Chinese central bankers to pressure them to unpeg their exchange rate, which China holds at a steady 8.28 yuan to the dollar. Echoing complaints heard across Washington, Sensenbrenner says the low exchange rate gives the Chinese an unfair trade advantage by putting a discount on their exports. Politicians have spent months calling on China to float its rate.

Outside of political Washington, however, the exchange-rate argument carries little weight. Few think it will make much of a difference because China will still keep its inexpensive production costs. China imports 60% of the raw materials it needs in its factories and a stronger yuan means that its raw material costs also will fall if its currency strengthens, meaning its factories can produce even more cheaply and offset the export costs.

The currency issue is a political sideshow, Kapp said.

The difficult truth, observers such as Kapp explain, is that America's economic role in the world has changed. Third World nations, long relegated to second-class status, are pulling themselves out of poverty by taking the jobs that advanced economies such as the U.S. once dominated.

"I have got companies that say we're doing this work overseas because those workers are more highly motivated, that they are more productive," Kapp said. "I was actually quite sobered and shocked to hear someone say this to me."

Such comments by U.S. entrepreneurs breach a taboo in the U.S., Kapp said, where workers tend to believe that no other workers are as diligent and motivated as they are and that they suffer mainly "just because the playing field isn't level."

"China is a reminder that the supremacy of the U.S. after World War II, which the 60-year-olds of the policy-making establishment grew up in as kids, is turning out to have been a moment in time that is not permanent," Kapp said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: china; copyright; freetrade; gm; manufacturing; patent; saic; sensenbrenner; trade
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To: ninenot
For two decades Congress has voted consistently to keep trade ties with China wide open, Sensenbrenner said, because lawmakers heed the lobbyists who work for big multinational corporations that profit from China's vast market and its cheap labor.

Call it madness, call it treason .... you won't be wrong either way.

101 posted on 01/25/2004 3:01:36 PM PST by iconoclast
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To: Lazamataz
The idea behind grad ed is that the graduate of that program is capable of doing significant independent research. It's been recognized for a long time that a grad degree is not required to be able to do that. Industry recognizes that also. Often a position search includes BS to PhD and the BS wins out, not because it's cheaper, the candidate has a better grasp of the matter and that's what the co. really needs. If a PhD is required for some legal, or market reason, the co. sends them back to school. Later that is, after they've produced. Most Americans that go for PhD are doing so, because the career they're after requires it apriori.

"The foreign students invariably will go back to their countries with genuine educations"

That could be, but it's not a guarantee. More likely it will be a prof returning with gifts to the country of his ancestors. US univ and colleges have become diploma mills in essence. Cash flow pressure drives grading. I've seen 1000s of BS resumes and less from PhDs. Most of them look like they were written by FReepers doing a parody of DU job seekers. The importent part regarding grads is that the bulk of the PhDs don't match expected capacity promised by the credential.

It's the person that matters and the US still leads in innovation. That's why we're copied.

102 posted on 01/25/2004 3:32:14 PM PST by spunkets
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To: Malsua
>>If you do, could you freepmail them to me Or I will give you my regular e-mail address. I will put them in my "see I told you so" Folder<<

Our factory has a decent internet connection, so uploading won't be a problem. I'll have to take my smart media reader though(hadn't thought about that till just now).

I'll see if I can put a FR sign somewhere in the shots, heh.
___________________________________________________________

I would really like that! Have a great trip.
103 posted on 01/25/2004 4:10:17 PM PST by The Working Man (Any work is better than "welfare"!)
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To: ninenot
Doesn't it strike you that the "Burgeoning Chinese Marketplace" is another run of the 'greater fool theory,' or the tulip-bulb bubble in the 21st Century?

Some complete dolt on some F50 Board started talking about it, and it's like, ah, syphilis--all over the place, leaving nothing but wreckage behind.

And, like syphilis, at least HALF the victims are innocent.
___________________________________________________________

You DO have a great point there. I hadn't quite looked at it in that view.

104 posted on 01/25/2004 4:11:38 PM PST by The Working Man (Any work is better than "welfare"!)
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To: ccmay
Ask anybody who drove an American car made in the 70's or 80's.

OK. Ask me.

I drove a 1984 Thunderbird for 250,000 miles and then the odometer broke. I might be still driving it except for a lady who turned around to scold her kids and rear-ended/totaled me.

Exaggerators like you chafe me just a little.

105 posted on 01/25/2004 4:35:45 PM PST by iconoclast
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To: ccmay
hard-working but not especially bright people who would be much better served by taking an apprenticeship in a skilled trade.

And if they have ANY intelligence, it won't be in tool-and-die or machining.

While I agree with the tenor and conclusion of your post, it's also been demonstrated (multiple above posts) that that "upper 5%" in India and China are cheats, liars, and scoundrels.

Frankly, I am not too worried about competing with them in the long run.

106 posted on 01/25/2004 4:42:30 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
Most of the Jap cars were built with lighter-gage steel and accessories (the carpet on my Mazda, 1974 RX, wore out in less than 1 year.)

That's why they literally disappeared--rust ate them through and through.

But I still see a LOT of old Benz's around.
107 posted on 01/25/2004 4:44:59 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: ccmay
And because of their larger population, they can produce highly intelligent and motivated graduates in greater numbers than we can produce half-educated slugs.

There you go again.

Look. Your claim that their "average" college student is brighter than our "average" student is defensible based on your testimony that only the top 5% of chilluns get into college over there.

I'll accept that.

But you just can NOT claim that motivation is a co-inhabitor with IQ.

Some of the very brightest people I know are absolutely slothful--they get away with it because they have the conclusions before most people understand the second predicate...

108 posted on 01/25/2004 4:49:30 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: Lazamataz
RE: genuine educations

Yes, there's no doubt they must perform once here and they do well. I never intended to intimate that they were not very bright peoples, of course.

Speaking of genuine educations I ran across an interesting article from The Tribune, December 1, 2003, Chandigarh, India

"Competitive exam mania, It's the quality of education that suffers," by Pratap Bhanu Mehta

There's no mention of cheating here but it describes a real problem as indicated by the title. Those who do write about cheating mention the "competitive exam mania" as the likely reason that some do cheat.

On criticizing the "competitive exam mania" the author opines, "It is not surprising that even distinguished institutions like the IIMs and the IITs , with all the wealth of talent they receive, are not able to define their respective fields of knowledge; they are recognised as reliable suppliers of particular types of students, but not as sites of innovation."

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031201/edit.htm

Oh.. this suggests that India's education would not exactly be perfect even with zero cheating on exams. I bet we could fix all our problems before they (and, especially, China!) could fix their problems if we could turn this into a 1960s moon landing-style program inspired by this technology "sputnik" scare.

109 posted on 01/25/2004 5:19:36 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: ccmay
I can't believe some of the anti-business populist garbage I read even on this supposedly conservative forum.

Conservatives also tend to be people who study history. History has shown that the winners of every major war and most minor ones for the past 150 years have been the countries that had superior industrial production. Our own history shows this fact. The South was a vocal proponent of free trade and believed that British and French manufactured goods were better and cheaper during peace time and would still be available during war time. What they found is that free-trade theory has little value when the lead starts flying. One of the reasons that the South lost the War Between the States was an inability to produce needed goods.

History also shows that our Founding Fathers understood the value of having manufacturing within our own country. They used the tariff as a means of revenue collection in part because they wanted to encourage American manufacturing. They also liked confining the power of the tax man to the end of the dock.

Paper-pushers who believe that we will never face a war again and that therefore we don't need domestic manufacturing are as deluded as everyone else who has ever believed in "peace in our time." A supposedly conservative or pro-business attitude doesn't make this folly any less foolish.

Beyond that point, I disagree with your assessment of the differences between American and Indian students. I've known many students from all over the world. They have been sharp guy and gals who work hard, but they are no better than the Americans against whom they are competing. They may seem a little better on average because our average is reduced somewhat by our weakest students, but they aren't the head of every class.

WFTR
Bill

110 posted on 01/25/2004 5:55:54 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: A. Pole
As long as labor is not represented in "lobbyist" form no one will speak for the working class.
111 posted on 01/25/2004 6:29:02 PM PST by RockyMtnMan
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To: WFTR
The South was a vocal proponent of free trade and believed that British and French manufactured goods were better and cheaper during peace time and would still be available during war time. What they found is that free-trade theory has little value when the lead starts flying.

Good point. And South liked cheap labor too :)

112 posted on 01/25/2004 6:59:00 PM PST by A. Pole (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain , the hand of free market must be invisible)
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To: ninenot
1 - xlinton had the Whole US patent library, put on CD's and sent to China, to save them the 'trouble' of dealing with our patent office.
113 posted on 01/25/2004 9:36:43 PM PST by XBob
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To: ninenot
Thanks for posting.

"...according to Sensenbrenner, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, which oversees enforcement of patent rights, "The Chinese steal intellectual property right and left.""

"Political analysts in Washington concur that the U.S. has relatively restricted leverage over China on free trade and job issues. Reasons vary from China's authority as the emergent political anchor of Asia to its newfound influence as an industrial powerhouse and its role in financing America's surging debt and deficits."

"Sensenbrenner said: "They have not been representing the interest of the small- and medium-sized enterprises. Wisconsin is full of SME's and they are the ones being clobbered by trade with China." "

"I was over there to see how the Chinese could get away with stealing intellectual property without any consequences."

"American firms seldom file formal complaints with either the WTO, the global trade rules-making body, or the Beijing government
"They are afraid of retaliation by communist officialdom there,""

""If China's output becomes as productive as the rest of the world, there's going to be no manufacturing left in the rest of the world," Sensenbrenner said."


114 posted on 01/25/2004 9:44:17 PM PST by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: ninenot
1- "Really cute: the Chinese propaganda quote from "US-China Trade Council" "

Uncle Prescott Bush - chairman
115 posted on 01/25/2004 10:01:29 PM PST by XBob
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To: longtermmemmory
26 - "Even the Japanese play games. The US gives patents broadly. The Japanese give patents narrowly, thus an infringment in the US is not an infringment there. "

Correct. In the US we patent a 'widget'. In Japan they can take our patent and then patent a 'red widget' a 'blue widget', a 'yellow widget', etc.
116 posted on 01/25/2004 10:21:58 PM PST by XBob
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To: Paul Ross
30 - "It's interesting to note that the students you are touting, are the most profligate cheaters in the world. Both India and China have a huge cottage industry churning out fraudulent degrees. Twice as many claimed degrees in China, than were actually issued, for instance. And There was a huge riot in India just recently when American's GMAT testing organization pulled out due to the demand that the students stop copying each other and other cheating. "

LOL - yes - in Saudi, I had one Indian fellow apply to me for a job, and he 'had' 6 Doctor's degrees. I thanked him for his resume and sent the 23 year old on his way.
117 posted on 01/25/2004 10:51:38 PM PST by XBob
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To: moonman
27 - "I read in Automobile Magazine that a Nisson Frontier pick-up truck is the most American made vehicle there is. More Americans are employed to build the parts and assemble that vehicle then any others."

My Nissan PU is made in USA. My brother's dodge PU is made in Mexico.

Note - 1st digit of VIN Number

1=US mfg
2=Canada mfg
3=Mexico mfg
J=Japan mfg
D=Deutschland (Germany) mfg
118 posted on 01/25/2004 10:56:44 PM PST by XBob
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To: Starwind; ninenot; Malsua; ccmay
72-"Yes, except that quality derives not from intellect, but from experience.

Not from knowing "how to do", but from "knowing what and what not to do". Not from disregard for consequences, but from regard for customer satisfaction and supplier capabilities."

StarWind - that means that Chinese and Indians are now getting all the experience.

119 posted on 01/26/2004 12:44:24 AM PST by XBob
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To: The Working Man
80 - "Nice places all in all but the one thing I really remember about Taiwan is that the concept of personal Intellectual Property like copyrights or even the basic idea of a product was just not respected."

Sort of true - the Chinese copied everything in Taiwan. However, I discovered, it is not just the Chinese, but in every 3rd world country I have lived and worked in, they just cannot 'conceive' of the concept of 'intellectual property', and I have had many arguments over it.

IMO - it is why they remain, poor, 3rd world countries.
120 posted on 01/26/2004 12:54:33 AM PST by XBob
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To: Paul Ross
"It's interesting to note that the students you are touting, are the most profligate cheaters in the world."

Absolutely right. And it's not just over there, either. I saw it first hand in grad school. The Chinese group had cheat sheets and old assignments going back years and years.
121 posted on 01/26/2004 8:36:34 AM PST by Tauzero (A small squeeze on the hooter is an excellent safety precaution)
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To: Iris7
MacArthur always considered himself a Virginian and his birthplace just another Army post in his life.
122 posted on 01/26/2004 1:13:48 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: ninenot
Vast market = false. Cheap labor = true. Issue = true.
123 posted on 01/26/2004 5:25:37 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Paul Ross
Firing? How about arrest? ;)
124 posted on 01/26/2004 5:27:20 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: baltodog
The Communists know how to dupe us. They enlist their "to be rich is glorious" crowd and put them as front men. They have some pretty nice hotels, and all the bar waitresses wear those split Chinese skirts. And they hire based on looks. Yep, the duped Western businesspeople get treated like Gods, and keep sending over your hard earned money and intellectual property. And please do keep that dual use technology coming - we'll let you know when we don't need you any more. BOY will we EVER let you know! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

125 posted on 01/26/2004 5:31:15 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Malsua
They are reverse engineering, they are licensing to build Soviet Russian miltary hardware, and they are aggressively developing indigenous capabilities. The world has really never seen anything quite like it before. And still, many here in the US continue to assert that they will never pose a threat. You do the math. How many people, how many degrees, how much will to power, etc. As I see it, we are like France, around 1865, we are resting on our laurels, and we don't have a clue what is going to hit us. Oh, and by the way, it is not a simple PRC problem we are looking at. All one needs to do is to look at which other countries have *militarily compatible* hardware, and the true scope of what will face us becomes apparent.
126 posted on 01/26/2004 5:36:27 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: templar
This is the path to being conquered.
127 posted on 01/26/2004 5:39:25 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Lazamataz
Immediate freeze on all visas.

128 posted on 01/26/2004 5:40:29 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: ninenot
And what about Boeing? I can discern an emerging scenario. Right around the point where Boeing PRC starts doing knock offs, Boeing USA goes kaput. Now, imagine Boeing PRC getting together with all those design bureaus doing Russian based designs. Guess where the world's next, largest, fastest, most stealthy intercontinental bomber will emerge from.
129 posted on 01/26/2004 5:43:53 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: iconoclast
Furthermore, *any* substantial negotiation by *non US government entities* with foreign officials on matters which have geopolitical significance, or implications regarding trade agreements, is TOTALLY ILLEGAL.
130 posted on 01/26/2004 5:46:12 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: ex-snook
"Don't vote for candidates of either party who support this outsourcing of America. There is no 'lesser of two evils' in making this decision. If you have to, vote a third party to make your position known. Being in the 'silent majority' means you don't exist."

I have not read any further than this post (#48) yet, but I am willing to bet this opened a whole new can of worms. There are people on this site that don't like to see posts like that. You suddenly become anti-american, fake conservative, etc. with those kind of statements.
131 posted on 01/29/2004 7:20:30 AM PST by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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