Outrage Over Gun Case May Lead to New Law

CNS News ^ | 01/16/04 | Susan Jones

[m1-lightning]

A Chicago-area homeowner who shot a burglar in his home - only to be charged with gun violations - has spurred gun groups and lawmakers into action.

The Illinois State Rifle Association is backing legislation that would shield law-abiding citizens from prosecution under "politically motivated gun control laws."

SB 2165, sponsored by Sen. Ed Petka (R-Plainfield), is intended to protect individuals who are charged with breaking municipal gun laws - if the individual used the gun in the act of defending himself or someone else.

The bill was drafted in response to a controversial shooting in Wilmette, a Chicago suburb, late last month.

In that case, a homeowner shot and wounded a man who broke into his home around 10:30 one night - the second break-in at that home in 24 hours, press reports said.

The homeowner was later arrested for violating Wilmette's ban on private handgun ownership. The man's arrest has generated nationwide protests and a flood of calls and emails to the Wilmette village hall, the Illinois State Rifle Association said.

"People of good sense everywhere are appalled that a father could be arrested and tried for defending his wife and children from a home invader," said ISRA Executive Director Richard Pearson.

"It's time to return common sense to the equation, and SB 2165 will do just that. It's difficult to imagine how anyone could oppose SB 2165, so I expect the bill to enjoy strong bipartisan support and swift passage."

The ISRA describes itself as the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful and responsible firearm ownership.

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Debate with Paula Zahn on CNN about this issue

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF: Rare crime in the quiet affluent Chicago suburb of Wilmette, Illinois. Police say this man, wearing a ski mask, breaks into the house. The homeowner calls 911 but also gets his gun and shoots the burglar who then steals the homeowner's SUV to drive himself to the hospital where he's arrested. The burglar is charged with felonies, but the homeowner is charged, too. Not for protecting himself, but for violating the town's ban on having a handgun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he did the right thing. I think the Wilmette ordinance should be repealed.

FLOCK: An angry meeting of the village board this week packed with gun proponents, not including the police chief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My experience in this village is, that handguns create a hazard in the home.

FLOCK: All but nine states limit in some way where communities can pass local gun laws. The District of Columbia and Chicago and five towns around it are the only ones to make handguns illegal. The law has been on the book for 15 years in Wilmette but now some are rethinking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I owned a gun, I would probably shoot someone who came into my house who was burglarizing it as well.

FLOCK: The homeowner faces a $750 fine. I'm Jeff Flock, CNN in Chicago.

ZAHN: And joining us now, two people on opposite sides. This debate over guns, Thom Mannard of the Illinois council against handgun violence. And in Washington, Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America. Good to see both of you.

So Larry, do you think this homeowner should have to pay a fine?

LARRY PRATT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA: I think the homeowner should be given a medal. What we're seeing in the renewal of this debate, we're exposing once again the immorality of gun control, particularly gun bans where we're saying to somebody, well, we're not going to prosecute you for having defended yourself, but we are going to prosecute you because you used the most effective means available.

We've told the criminal class, not just in Wilmette but Washington, D.C. and England, that you're going to be safer if you work in these areas because people can't defend themselves. And the criminals get the message and crime has gone off the charts in Washington, D.C. and England. I think what we have to do is rethink this. And take a look at the data. We know that people in this country use guns some 7,000 times a day in self-defense. Far outstripping any criminal uses of these guns.

ZAHN: Tom, why do you have a problem with this homeowner defending himself?

THOM MANNARD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ILLINOIS COUNCIL AGAINST HANDGUN BAN: Well, Paula, in regards to defending himself, we don't look at that as the issue. The fact of the matter, is that the residents in the village of Wilmette along with law enforcement and elected officials there believe that their community is safer from gun violence by having this prohibition in place. ZAHN: But Thom, let me ask you that. There are only six municipalities in the country, including the one where this shooting happened, that have a handgun ban. The country doesn't seem to be behind these bans. Why do you support them?

MANNARD: We support the ability of people within their own communities to address the issue of gun violence in a way that they feel is appropriate. The police chief indicated, and the numbers indicate, that a gun in the home is much more likely to be used in an accidental shooting, in suicide, or in a domestic dispute than it is to be used in self-defense.

And we believe that if the people of a certain municipality believe that their municipality is safe from gun violence with this type of prohibition, then they should have the ability to do so.

ZAHN: Larry, do you have a problem with municipalities having that control? Is that the issue here?

PRATT: I don't think it's the issue, because Mr. Mannard's group and other defense groups are happy passing gun control legislation at the national level. That's just bunk that they believe in respecting local wishes and local control. What they're...

ZAHN: But why should -- hang on, Larry, why shouldn't local wishes be honored?

PRATT: Well, first of all, it's unconstitutional. Second, it's immoral. And thirdly, it was really stupid. It was legal to use a rifle in the self-defense situation. If this homeowner had used a rifle, he scored 50 percent of the time when he shot at a moving target in the dark in his house. If I could shoot that well, people would come to me for lessons. But two of the shots didn't hit. If he had used a rifle that had so much more energy, he would have probably had a round going through two or three of his neighbors' houses down the line.

ZAHN: Lets ask Tom about that.

Thom, would it have been more responsible for the homeowner to have used a different type of weapon here?

MANNARD: Well, the fact of the matter is, is that the homeowner could have had a firearm in the home. This was a prohibition on a handgun. In regards to Larry mentioning that it's unconstitutional, well this prohibition, as well as other prohibitions within the state of Illinois, have been found to be constitutional. If they were unconstitutional, they would have been taken off the books many years ago. And in fact, just yesterday, a judge ruled that the D.C. prohibition on handguns is in fact constitutional. And, therefore, the constitutional issue is irrelevant. What's relevant is what people in these communities believe will keep them safe from gun violence.

MANNARD: And the fact of the matter is that firearm death and injury is at a very low rate in the village of Wilmette.

ZAHN: Larry, we need a real quick last word from you.

PRATT: It is immoral to tell somebody, oh, be warm and be filled, go. And what they're telling them in Wilmette is go inside your room and lock your room and call 911. Well, once somebody's invaded your house, that means he's an aggressor, he's an invader. And in every jurisdiction of the country, including Wilmette, you have the right to defend yourself with force, and you should have the right to use the best means available, a handgun.

ZAHN: All right, gentleman, we're going to have to leave it there. You've certainly helped raise our consciousness about a very heated issue there in the Midwest. Larry Pratt and Thom Mannard, thank you for both of your perspectives.

MANNARD: Thanks, Paula.

[m1-lightning]

Illinoi State Rifle Association

[m1-lightning]

State Bump

[m1-lightning]

bump

[Joe Brower]

[Voice in your head]

"It was legal to use a rifle in the self-defense situation. If this homeowner had used a rifle, he scored 50 percent of the time when he shot at a moving target in the dark in his house. If I could shoot that well, people would come to me for lessons. But two of the shots didn't hit. If he had used a rifle that had so much more energy, he would have probably had a round going through two or three of his neighbors' houses down the line."

Interesting. The statist on Zahn's show did not reply to this. I wonder why.

[ChefKeith]

BTTT

I'm GLAD I live in TEXAS!

[coloradan]

The statist on Zahn's show did not reply to this. I wonder why.

If he had replied, it would have been something like "And this shows why we have to restrict the power of rifles, too. You don't need a .30-06 to shoot an intruder in your home, which is why we have introduced this reasonable, responsible, common-sense, modest legislation to restrict rifles to .22 caliber and 40 foot pounds of maximum muzzle energy, the Keeping Neighbors Safe From Being Killed By Homeowners Wildly Missing Intruders Who Have Broken Into Their Homes Act of 2004."

[ChefKeith]

The statist on Zahn's show did not reply to this. I wonder why.

Ignorance of the truth. Give these people the facts and they revert to the "programmed" response. Or change the subject.

[asformeandformyhouse]

Somebody's gotta say it:

Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.

[tractorman]

Let’s play “How to defend your family”

Man “A” breaks into man “B”’s house and threatens to kill everyone.
You are man “B” and get to choose from the following list of defensive options.
Be careful not to pick the illegal one.

1. Throw your mug of hot coffee in his face.
2. Pull the rug out from under him.
3. Shoot him with a shotgun
4. Hand him a pair of scissors and tell him to run
5. Tell him his shoe’s untied and kick him in the groin
6. Play the Barney song until he collapses
7. Yell “Allah Akbar”
8. Play dead
9. Call 911
10. Shoot him with a handgun

[Wheee The People]

Change the law bump.

[Blue Scourge]

Amen to that, and a big congrats for that homeowner exercising his right to defend himself....even if it is going to cost him.

[biblewonk]

ping

[Blue Scourge]

11. Beat him to death with a baseball bat.
12. Turn into Macguyver and grab "bubble gum, tooth picks, and fishing wire" and make a homemade grenade launcher.
13. Send him to seminar being hosted by Al Gore and watch him be bored to death.
14. Shoot him with your AR-15

[m1-lightning]

14. Shoot him with your AR-15

Mayor Daley of Chicago pushed to get those banned (SB 1195) last year in Illinois, but thanks to so many citizens expressing their outrage over it, the legislation was tabled.

[Shooter 2.5]

Chicago and five towns around it are the only ones to make handguns illegal.

Morton Grove, Wilmette, Oak Park, Evanston and which other?

[tractorman]

I like #12 the homemade grenade launcher.

[thackney]

BTTT

[ArrogantBustard]

Truly amazing that Paula Zahn a) gave Larry Pratt the final word b) didn't hurl loaded questions at him and c) didn't constantly interrupt him.

I must go outside and look for pigs in the landing pattern.

[m1-lightning]

I believe there are only four Chicago suburbs with handgun bans.

[ArrogantBustard]

If I didn't have so many close neighbors, I'd use my M1 ...

[eyespysomething]

3, if not 3 then 10


of course, 6 really doesn't take long either, and sometimes I think its more painful

[tractorman]

Good one. LOL

Bump for God, Guts and Guns.

[Gritty]

I wonder if Thom Mannard has a "GUN FREE ZONE" sign conspicuously posted in his front yard?

If not, why not? He is much safer without those nasty guns in his house and if he has any intellectual honesty at all he ought to advertise the fact for all to see!

[trebb]

15. Drop to your knees and beg for mercy to distract him so your wife can shoot him. (Wife's have needs too.)

[m1-lightning]

I wonder if Thom Mannard has a "GUN FREE ZONE" sign conspicuously posted in his front yard?

Thom Mannard and every crooked gun control politician or lobbyist owns guns themseleves. It's a "do as I say not as I do" mentality with these hypocritical liberals who have power, the true dictators of our culture.

[Hat-Trick]

16. Quickly call Thom Manner and ask him what you should do while the perpetrator is raping & pillaging.

[tractorman]

It would be interesting to see if he would change his tune should he ever be victimized. Like they say, most conservatives are liberals who’ve been mugged.

[two23]

11. Cha-chunk--Meet Mr Mossberg

[Ancesthntr]

If they were unconstitutional, they would have been taken off the books many years ago.

I guess that he means it would have been taken off the books just like the 1896 USSC case of Plessy v. Fergusen (endorsing the notion of separate but equal)? That POS decision only took 58 years to be stricken from the books (by Brown v. Board of Education).

And in fact, just yesterday, a judge ruled that the D.C. prohibition on handguns is in fact constitutional.

So what! In the Dred Scott case the USSC ruled that it was OK for Blacks to be considered property, and held as slaves. This moron judge is just as wrong as Tanney's Supreme Court was, with the difference being that he can be reversed without the need for a Civil War (or so we hope).

Well, Paula, in regards to defending himself, we don't look at that as the issue.

Nah, self-defense had nothing at all to do with why this courageous citizen had a handgun. In fact, I've seen an AP report that he bought it to scratch those parts of his @$$ that he couldn't reach himself. This guy is a lying POS.

Pratt really kicked this guy's butt all over the place; he beat him on every single point. I wish that I'd seen and taped the story.

[newgeezer]

As you know, this is one reason why our brother Al has no love for his ol' hometown of Chicago.

"My kind of town, Chicago is" not. Giordano's makes great pizza, though.

[Elsie]

...Wilmette's ban on private handgun ownership.

How can THIS trump KABA???

[m1-lightning]

Here's his phone number if you would like to call him in advance and ask him if he gives discounts on "panic rooms":

Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence
223 West Jackson Boulevard
Chicago, IL 60606
www.ichv.org
Contact:
Thom Mannard
Phone: 312-341-0939
EMail: e-mail

[B4Ranch]

What I like about this incident is that it is once again more proof that people do use handguns to defend themselves and it is getting nationwide coverage.

[tractorman]

Mr. Mossberg good. Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson bad.

[holdmuhbeer]

you should have the right to use the best means available, a handgun.

Wrong bucko, a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 3 1/2" 00 buck is better in my opinion. Not against handguns but for home defense the shotgun is better in my opinion.

[Dark Wing]

The anti-gun folks just stepped on the post 9/11 American self-defense third rail.

[millefleur]

now with dad gone for defending his family only mom and the children are left ALONE at home and everyone knows

[unixfox]

The homeowner faces a $750 fine. I'm Jeff Flock, CNN in Chicago.

The best investment he could ever make. Of course he should not even have to bear this cost.

[ought-six]

The very best home defense weapon is a 12-gauge pump shotgun loaded with 00-buck. You don't have to be a great shot and the shots (those little round .50 caliber balls that make up 00-bukshot) won't overpenetrate to threaten a neighbor's house three doors down. The perp gets hit and goes down. Period. I am unaware of any history of a full-grown adult walking away from a load of 00-buck in his chest.

[ought-six]

"Morton Grove, Wilmette, Oak Park, Evanston and which other?"

I think it's either Winnetka or Glencoe.

[two23]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1058823/posts

See post #43--This week in GA a high school wrestling coach and his teenage son were shot and killed in their home by an intruder. The intruder fled the scene during apprehension, shot a dog (K-9?) and then was shot and killed by police officers.
(The high school and community is shocked and grieving and the local news paper runs an article today about the "poor" perpetrator.) (barf alert)
If only the coach was armed...

[Modernman]

4. Hand him a pair of scissors and tell him to run

LOL.

[two23]

"The very best home defense weapon is a 12-gauge pump shotgun loaded with 00-buck. You don't have to be a great shot and the shots (those little round .50 caliber balls that make up 00-bukshot) won't overpenetrate to threaten a neighbor's house three doors down. The perp gets hit and goes down. Period. I am unaware of any history of a full-grown adult walking away from a load of 00-buck in his chest."

I agree--but last year there was an article posted here at FR about a 65 year old widow woman who was forced to confront a home intruder. Her deceased husband left her his weapons, and she had to make a decision: Pistol or Shotgun?...she chose the pistol, she said, because (LOL) "I just had new counter tops put in and didn't want to damage them." (LOL)..yes, she shot the perp. Hilarious that this woman is thinking about her countertops while reaching for her weapon of choice!

[Modernman]

Not against handguns but for home defense the shotgun is better in my opinion.

For deterence and scaring an intruder off, the sound of a shotgun is certainly the best. However, I'd be a little leery of shooting buckshot in the house, especially if you have other people (such as a wife, kids) or pets around.

[holdmuhbeer]

For deterence and scaring an intruder off, the sound of a shotgun is certainly the best. However, I'd be a little leery of shooting buckshot in the house, especially if you have other people (such as a wife, kids) or pets around. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As opposed to .38 or .44 mag, i'll take the buckshot.

[mvpel]

It's time to pass statewide preemption, not just a narrow exception to local gun ordinances. Why the for half measures? They've got a situation tailor made for going for the throat of the oppressive gun laws in Illinois.

[redgolum]

I lived in the Chicago area for a while. My insurance agent told me to get a shot gun loaded with 3 1/2 steel goose shot (BBB). That way you can claim you defended yourself with what you had. Using buckshot will get you in trouble, because the prosecutor will say you must have WANTED to KILL some POOR DEFENSELESS intruder.

Needless to say, I left Chicago. Now my home defense is a 1911 loaded with +p ammo.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

Synopsis As Introduced
Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Provides that it is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another. Effective immediately.

This is the most important legislation to be introduced this year, especially for those who live near Chicago. Write or Call in support of this bill along with your local reps and senators.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

this is a garbage amendment!!!!

Why. Because you are confirming the regulation of firearms by cities and municipal. You are verifying the right of the cities under home rule to enact these stupid gun ordinances to prevent the ownership. All this amendment does is to prevent the jailing of an so called illegal firearm. Why not just fix the problem and outlaw all ordinances that make illegal the ownership or use of firearms in the home.

Chicagofarmer

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[76834]

You sure got that right.
IMO the "Cheif" forgot the oath he swore to uphold.

ie:
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.