Jewish group OK's same-sex marriage

Boston Globe ^ | 1/16/04 | Michael Paulson

[NYer]

The endorsement, by an umbrella organization representing 42 Jewish groups, is part of a growing effort by liberal religious voices to counter the strong opposition to same-sex marriage voiced by the state's Catholic bishops. The bishops of the state's four Catholic dioceses today plan to announce a major campaign to defeat same-sex marriage.

OFFICIAL VATICAN POSITION

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list

[RobbyS]

"The Jewish community has been in support of civil liberties because we understand that discrimination against one group leads to discrimination against all," What if the group is defined only be sexual practices? I agree with the comparison with polygamists, which is much closer than the comparison with blacks or Jews. The claim that one is "Born" homosexual is an unproved assertion that is accepted simply because people like Dean, who should know better, repeat it. It is simply no more than a prejudice of the liberal elite, who share Robinson's belief that the Biblical view of homosexuality is "outdated."

[brazucausa]

We are heading towards serious problems if this continues morality that is stil left will diminish even more. It looks like evil is spreading it awful dark cloud further and further.

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping - yet another same sex marriage alert. "Liberal" Jews - JINO. What would their ancestors think?

If anyone wants on or off this (very busy lately) ping list, let me know.

I am sure glad I don't live in MA.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Several points:

"Orthodox Judaism" is not a "deonomination of Judaism." "Orthodox Judaism" IS Judaism.

'Agudat Yisra'el should not be opposing "gay marriage" while saying that "gays" have a "right" not to be discriminated against. Unfortunately, all conservative religious groups are hamstringed by the the American base ideology and feel compelled to invoke Washington and Jefferson on matters of religion. The fact is that G-d is the boss and Washington and Jefferson are irrelevant. If the American ideology is at odds with the Law of G-d, then it is the American ideology that needs changing. No one needs James Madison's permission to oppose anything. Unfortunately, the Theocracy-bashing taking place in the wake of the war against islam is making the advocacy of true Theonomy very difficult.

Polygamy, unlike homosexuality, bestiality, incest, etc., is permitted by the Torah for both Jews and non-Jews (but only when it is one man and more than one woman, never the other way around), though of course in a country where the law forbids this the law is to be obeyed. But the changing of the law here would not violate the Law of G-d. BTW, the liberals owe the mormons a big apology.

All liberals (not just Jewish liberals) are hugely inconsistent when they oppose "legislating morality" and advocate the eradication of "discrimination," since "discrimination" for them merely takes the place of homosexuality, prostitution, public lewdness, etc., and by advocating laws against it they are advocating the legislating of morality.

At the very root of liberalism is the maddening assertion that the world is ultimately devoid of any meaning or purpose whatsoever and yet they still have the right to run things in line with their ethical system. They could at least have the decency to claim they receive their moral system from an idol or something, but to be told I have to obey them in spite of the fact that eveyrthing is ultimately meaningless anyway sort of makes me a little . . . how do I put it? . . . resentful.

And finally, it's time the Torah leadership got off its tachat (pardon my language), stop schmoozing with liberal politicians, venture out of their safe little fundamentalist ghettos and see what the rest of us have to deal with each and every day of our lives. Then maybe they will start living up to their responsibility of being the true teachers and leaders of mankind and will bring more non-Jews to the light.

I still wish there were enough of us Noachides in this country to at least be an embarrassment to Jewish liberals. But I'm not optimistic that they'll ever have to deal with us. Unfortunately.

[tuesday afternoon]

These guys must not read the Tora very often

Reform Judaism does not believe in the divinity of the Torah. The primary focus is on autonomy.

[Hat-Trick]

Is it just my imagination, or does it seem to anyone else that Massachusetts is the gay and gay rights hub of the US? I know that SF and Key West have more than their share of gays, but for some reason Massachusetts seems to dominate, between the Catholic Priests, Judges, and now this.

[tuesday afternoon]

I still wish there were enough of us Noachides in this country to at least be an embarrassment to Jewish liberals.

Hey, a fellow Noachide. :)

[Zionist Conspirator]

Hey, a fellow Noachide. :)

Wake the town and tell the people! There's two of us! Maybe we can have a convention in a phone booth somewhere?

Okay Torah Jews (and especially the leadership), get to work and all non-Jews will be Noachides! Er, those who don't perish in Milchemet Gog uMagog, that is!

[Zionist Conspirator]

I agree with the comparison with polygamists, which is much closer than the comparison with blacks or Jews. The claim that one is "Born" homosexual is an unproved assertion that is accepted simply because people like Dean, who should know better, repeat it.

Unfortunately, I forgot to include an important point in my last post which dealt with precisely this issue. Here it is (belatedly):

It doesn't matter whether homosexuality is genetic or not. Homosexual acts are capital offenses regardless. The Canaanites were Canaanites genetically (they certainly didn't pick their ancestors) yet the Torah ordered their extermination. Ditto with the unfinished job with `Amaleq. And as for the Kutim ("Samaritans"), they were excommunicated, forbidden to ever become Jews at any time in the future, and even banned from the World to Come by 'Anshei HaKenesset HaGedolah (I mean, is that brutal or what?). All this being so, I think that qal vachomer the "genetic predisposition" to homosexuality (or to theft, murder, or what have you) is just tough nuggies. And I say that not out of cruelty but just out of simple factuality.

[Alouette]

Here is a link you might want to add to your profile

[RobbyS]

To reinforce you point: Even if it could be shown that one has a genetic disposition to alcoholism, that would be no defence for drunken driving.

[tuesday afternoon]

Wake the town and tell the people! There's two of us! Maybe we can have a convention in a phone booth somewhere?

LOL :D

[tuesday afternoon]

Thanks for the link. There's a lot of info there.

[VxH]

Rev 2:9-10

I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.