Immigrant Realities: President Bush's proposal helps America's security and economy

Opinion Journal ^ | 01/06/04 | editorial board

[Pokey78]

The debate over President Bush's new immigration reform has so far been mainly about election-year politics. But what we believe most commends it is that it recognizes the world as it exists.

Like it or not, the U.S. is part of an integrating regional and world economy in which the movement of people across borders is inevitable. Despite nearly 20 years of efforts to "crack down on the borders," the immigrants keep coming--an estimated eight million without legal U.S. documents today. As long as the per capita income differential between the U.S. (nearly $32,000) and Mexico ($3,679) continues to be so wide, we can't stop immigrants short of means that will violate our traditions, our conscience, and our national interest.

[dirtboy]

Do we really want to deputize all of American business to report and arrest illegals?

Uh, no, we just don't want American business to hire them.

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[secret garden]

Family values don't stop at the Rio Grande but our border does. Where shall we draw the new line?

[dagnabbit]

The article sets up the usual false choice between surrendering to the illegal tide, and machine-gunning Mexican children.

[Richard Kimball]

Good article. Got your flame-proof suit on? there's a lot here who won't like it.

[Madstrider]

Anybody waiting for the Wall Street Journal to say a word in defense of citizenship and sovereignty, will have to keep waiting -- until hell freezes over. WSJ is the drum major of the Open Borders marching band.

TRAITORS!

[WackyKat]

The WSJ just wants cheap labor so the Wall Street boys can keep themselves in cocaine and hookers

[Visalia]

Bush to Americans: "Read my lips. No new illegals."

No troops on the border? Then, no solution to the problem. The US goverment is NOT going to militarize the borders, EVER! The illegals will just keep on coming.

[dagnabbit]

Participation in the guest worker program won't necessarily put someone on track for a green card (for permanent residency), which is the goal of many immigrants.

This promise comes with Brooklyn Bridge included.

[FITZ]

Yes --- that's one of the phoniest arguments.

[spodefly]

I almost always agree with the opinions that come from the WSJ. The exception is when it comes to illegal immigration.

[sarcasm]

You rang?

[DrDeb]

. . . excellent article -- rational, reasonable, and realistic (for these reasons alone, the usual suspects will HATE it)!

[applemac_g4]

"Foreign-born workers represent 14% of the U.S. labor force, meaning that huge parts of the retail, restaurant and farm economies would shut down without them."

No. Actually they wouldn't - they'd just be forced to raise their wages to the point that they could attract the necessary workers.

*THAT* is how the free market works Mr. Bush, not by artifically depressing wages by letting illegal aliens compete with your citizens.

Down with Bush.

[DrDeb]

"No troops on the border? Then, no solution to the problem. The US goverment is NOT going to militarize the borders, EVER! The illegals will just keep on coming."


. . . by the way, militarizing our borders is ILLEGAL -- oops!!

[F16Fighter]

One objection, especially from the political right, is that the Bush proposal rewards people who broke the law.

Ummm...yep.

Essentially, the Chief Enforcement Officer of the United States refuses to uphold the Constitution -- something he swore to at his Inaugural.

[Kay Soze]

The argument:

"...beefed up the border guard, but all that did was move illegal crossings deeper into the shadows of organized crime..."

can be made for every crime from tax evasion, drugs on through, environmental laws through child pornography!

I guess as a conservative its time to recognize that attempting to instill morality is a waste of time as well.

How does taking away limited INS resources from the war on terror make the US any safer?

"They said only 2,000 agents are available to review the millions of applicants that might be submitted.
"When U.S. immigration officials were tasked with the responsibility of checking immigrants coming into the United States from the Middle East after September 11, it tied up all of INS' resources and caused significant delays," Mr. Cutler said.

"When this country had problems trying to properly identify a few thousand people, how is it going to do the same with a few million?"


Source:
The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com
http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040107-103029-5660r

Border authorities fear influx from Bush plan
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published January 8, 2004

[bjcintennessee]

Immigrant workers would enjoy the protection of our labor laws

If our labor laws are enforced, i.e., minimum wage laws, this could be a major deterrent for businesses to hire "work visa" immigrants. If forced to pay a minimum wage, they may as well hire Americans and save themselves the extra paperwork.

I have mixed feelings about this issue. Having read numerous threads on this site, I believe both sides have valid points.

Nonetheless, taking advantage of several of the grassroots networks, I emailed my legislators and the White House that I am opposed to this new plan.

I did so because I think some form of this plan will pass, and we need to hold our politicians feet to the fire to encourage them to make this as restrictive as possible. Plus, they need to be encouraged to follow through with the necessary enforcement of labor laws, punishing businesses who violate our laws, and be prepared to deport any illegals who do not sign on.

[Kay Soze]

"Do we really want to deputize all of American business to report and arrest illegals? "

The IRS make them deputies!

Funny how when its in their financial interests the require ALL business to be deputies on matters relating to income.

How does this policy make my nation safer?

[Texasforever]

The WSJ just wants cheap labor so the Wall Street boys can keep themselves in cocaine and hookers

Marx would be proud little comrade. UP THE PROLETARIATE!

[AUH2OY2K]

"Despite nearly 20 years of efforts to "crack down on the borders," the immigrants keep coming--an estimated eight million without legal U.S. documents today."

Despite over a two hundred years of effort, murder and rape still persists. Despite decade fighting the drug war, drugs keep coming over the boarder. Let's hear it for Bush adopting the French cut and run philosophy.

Voted for Bush once. I won't make the same mistake twice. Where is the old Barry Goldwater? This country needs him.

[dagnabbit]

Or maybe this is just another "decent interval" a la Kissinger 1973?

[Ajnin]

One objection, especially from the political right, is that the Bush proposal rewards people who broke the law. But in fact illegals would be required to pay a fine, as well as to prove employment before they could receive temporary visas. The 1986 "amnesty" to which this is being compared made no such demands.

The '86 amnesty required that the illegals prove they had the minimum residency requirement. When INS and Border Patrol agents started breaking illegal aliens to lying about their status the INS forced the agents to accept the applications for amnesty reguardless of the aliens qualification.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

LOL Reality? How about the "reality" of the oath this President swore to uphold..you know, to uphold the laws of the land etc? How about Constitutional reality?

I'm so sick and tired of the fuzzy math! They've been using that stat for YEARS now. It wasn't accurate when they first started using it! Can you imagine what that true number is? MI says that the border patrol catches 1 in 5 and they caught almost a million last year! Since Bush has been in office, we've gained about 9+MILLION of the $%&%&*s!
KEEP THE PRESSURE ON! Phone, fax and email DAILY! I'm working for an editorial for the Vegas papers..not that it will get printed...too many illegals here taking the jobs from citizens!

Get on your homeboys, people. Unless we get the numbers which will make them fear for re-election, it will be all over. There will be no going back. This is the showdown on the Immigration Issue. If you've been following along, you know that these people are costing the American taxpayers billions per year. They're taking jobs away from hardworking American citizens. They're draining our resources and giving very little back. This is it. If this is allowed to pass, we can quite literally kiss this nation goodbye. The massive population transfer that will take place is unspeakable. Do it now! Fight for your country and way of life!


PUT A STOP TO IT NOW OR WE CAN KISS THIS NATION GOODBYE...LITERALLY.

It's NOT a migration, it's an invasion! Don't let them get away with this! SCREAM! Call toll free:

Whitehouse: 202-456-1414

Comment Line: 202-456-6213 and 202-456-1111

House and Senate: 1-800-648-3516

Rep. Nat'l Committee" 202-863-8500 (not toll free)

Senate: http://www.senate.gov/

Congress: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.html

Department of Homeland Defense: http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/contactus

Department of Justice/John Ashcroft AskDOJ@usdoj.gov 202-353-1555

President Bush's Campaign BushCheney04@GeorgeWBush.com 703.647.2700

Republican National Committee info@rnc.org 202.863.8500

[sixmil]

Immigrant Realities: President Bush's proposal helps America's security and economy corporate beggars

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Reality? They're 'so important to the economy?' The reality is that they are a constant net drain on the economy. ANd the American citizens pay for it. WE don't share in the profits, we don't derive ANY benefit in our pockets, but we pay thru the teeth to subsidize their education, their housing, their welfare, their foodstamps, their healthcare. We put up with insults, crimes committed against us, loss of jobs, loss of real revenue but still we're asked to buy into the BIG LIE!

According to Lou Dobbs tonite, American workers suffer a $200,000,000,000 cut in pay because of them. And let's not forget that $45,000,000,000 in money taken from this economy and given to the Vincente Fox economy and out of the pockets of American workers!

[FBD]

From Laura Ingraham:

"...President Bush charges across the landscape to rescue us from our “unfair” and “broken” immigration system by rewarding people who came here illegally with the promise of legal status. This proposal essentially mirrors the immigration legislation sponsored by—you got it—Sen. McCain. Under the Bush/McCain plan, anyone outside the U.S. who wants to come into the country would only need to show proof of a “job offer” in order to get an initial three-year work permit that would be renewable for an unspecified period. Such temporary workers could also bring family members here. What prevents these people from staying on beyond their time premitted for "temporary" work? As it stands now, there seems to be no limit on the immigration —temporary or permanent— allowed under this plan. And as for the claim that this would be a big boon to the American economy? Illegal immigration costs taxpayers $20 billion each year, in extra education, healthcare, welfare, and prison costs. Today thirty-four percent of Mexicans legally in the U.S., and 25 percent of Mexicans illegally here are on welfare.

How are those costs diminished under the Bush plan?

Most bewildering is the Administration idea that this plan is necessary for homeland security reasons. On the contrary, it would not be surprising if some would-be terrorists are among the millions of illegals who will become “documented” under the Bush plan. As Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX) charged, "Guest worker programs and gradual amnesty provide cover for terrorists."

It’s easy to understand why Vicente Fox, McCain, big business, and La Raza are happy this week—but what’s in this new proposal for working class American families? How about those immigrants who a lot of time and money to comply with our immigration laws?

The real answer is absolutely nothing. The only reasonable prediction is that wages for a wide range of jobs will be kept artificially depressed by outside workers—now with “legal status” will work for peanuts. “I have worked construction for 30 years as a truck driver (18-wheeler),” wrote one of my listeners, “And every year my pay has gone down because Mexicans are flooding the trucking industry…."

When Bill Clinton says we live in an “increasingly borderless world,” we’re not surprised. It’s the usual globaloney blather. But when a Republican president advocates a policy that will make our borders effectively meaningless, we should be outraged.

With his approval numbers high, President Bush has made a devil’s bargain with business and Hispanic groups. Elites from both parties are ignoring the view of a strong majority of Americans that we need to stop illegal immigration, not high-five it.

Another listener wonders: “What happened to the ‘party of principle’? More like the party of pandering. Considering the massive numbers involved, this amnesty being floated really is Pandora's Box, once opened cannot be closed.”

President Bush has now done the equivalent of posting a sign at the border: “Help Wanted for $5.15/hour.”

Conservatives are right to be disappointed in President Bush. We are right to ignore the Administration’s promise that this time, non-amnesty amnesty will be good for the American people. Our citizenship and legal residence should be reserved for people who love this country enough that breaking her laws—whether at the border or on the street—is out of the question. The next time I hear from his Administration that it is doing all it can to protect our homeland, secure our borders, and increase our standard of living, I will laugh.

Now I know the definition of “compassionate conservative:” a person who campaigns as a conservative, then sells out key conservative principles."

[ETERNAL WARMING]

*THAT* is how the free market works Mr. Bush, not by artifically depressing wages by letting illegal aliens compete with your citizens.

Down with Bush.

Out the door in 2004!

[Madstrider]

Also, it is important to remember that WSJ editors don't live in the same neighborhoods as the illegal immigrants, their kids don't go to school with the children of illegal immigrants, and Third Worlders are not sneaking into the country to become financial journalists. WSJ editors miss all the negative impact of immigration -- the crime-ridden streets, the failing schools, the wages lost to cheap labor --- and reap all the benefits: Lots of low-wage lackeys to shine their designer Italian shoes; lots of illiterate peons to mow their lawns; lots of Third World women to work as maids and cooks and nannies, without complaint or tax hassles.

What kills me about the buzzards at the WSJ is that they dress up their Open Borders treason as noble humanitarianism and disinterested economics, when in fact it is motivated solely and exclusively by nothing but pure, blind, narrow self-interest. As far as the WSJ crowd is concerned, the country can go to hell -- as it is in fact doing -- just as long as they can have Maria to change diapers and Jose to trim the hedges.

The so-called "conservatives" at the WSJ are far worse than liberals, who at least believe they are doing the right thing. The WSJ crowd know very well that they are destroying America, and just lie to our faces, telling us that it's for our own good, and think we're too dumb to know the difference.
A curse upon such malevolent hypocrites!

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Marx would be proud little comrade. UP THE PROLETARIATE!

Yes, proud of the bs that passes for propaganda these days. He was a BIG supporter of FREE TRADE and unlimited immigration. He felt it was the fastest way to break down a society for the takeover.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

They must be dancing in the streets in Mexico, partying hardy! THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS AND HIS NAME IS JORGE BUSH!

Prepare for so many millions of third worlders to invade that our nation will be in total chaos! The schools, the public services, the unemployment fallout, the extreme cut in pay for Americans.

Get a clue MR. President...according to the IRS, a full 50% of all American workers are now paying into the LOWEST TAX BRACKET. That is thanks to decades of illegal immigration and it's effects on our jobs...or should I say...were our jobs?

[Gigantor]

BTT

[tickles]

Actually I understand the point but, exactly where does it say they aren't eligible for low income rentals, rent assistance, welfare, medical benefits, etc etc. If such a program is the best answer, where the heck is the protections for the vunlerable US CITIZENS who get displaced for assistance that is there (whether it should be available or not is a completely different agrument) the programs are becoming increasiningly difficult for citizens to qualify for?

why do I need to supplement illegals? (I already supplement leagle immigrants since they live here 7 yrs without paying taxes...heck my kids don't get that type of break and I've paid taxes for years, ugh) I can handle them getting the assistance but not the ones who are here as 'guest' workers.

[isrul]

Does anyone believe that the unchecked mass migration to this country of people from the third world is a good thing?

Migrations of this size change demographics, cultures and civilizations. Are you really ready for some big changes? Doe you think the changes brought about by this migration will be for the better. Is it what you want to bestow upon your children?

I have no problem with immigration. But this is not immigration.

I listened to Bush. I replayed the tape a few times.

His proposal does not address this ongoing migration and does nothing to discourage or stop it.

He says it's temporary. Do you believe that? Even if he tried to stop it after a period of time do you think these people will just dutifully march back to whence they came?

Out of compassion the program will just be extended forever until Fox has emptied all the jobless he can into the U.S. Mexico doesn't allow migrants to overrun them from their southern neighbors. They seal the border. Yet we are expected to allow this endless influx from him. It's totally insane. No nation in the history of the world has voluntarily laid it self open to such a mass migration.

Bush's proposal is only good for those who have already disrespected and violated our laws.

And it's not even that great for them.

If you were an illegal, would you come forward to participate in a so-called temporary program?

If Clinton had proposed this you would have gone ballistic. But just because it comes from Bush and gets a modicum of approval from Limbaugh so many seem to think it's just fine.

[bastantebueno55]

"they'd just be forced to raise their wages to the point that they could attract the necessary workers.

"*THAT* is how the free market works Mr. Bush, not by artifically depressing wages by letting illegal aliens compete with your citizens."

Brit Hume raised this point this evening with one of his expert guests. The guest made the point that as American workers age and are better and better educated, there are many jobs that will just go unfilled if not for the guest workers. The market forces dictate the wages value of jobs on the basis of their importance in productivity, so there is a very real ceiling on how high wages can go in any given job. He also made the point that these 8 million undocumented workers are making an invaluable contribution to our economy. If you really want to expel them all, you will absolutely shut down our economic machine.

The Tom Tancredo wing of FR is as hopelessly blind as the protectionist Dick Gephart wing of the Democrat party. Blinded by xenophobia. I heard Pat Buchanan ranting on this earlier today, and he makes me want to puke.

The Bush plan is a reasonable compromise which still maintains a very real difference between a legalized guest worker status and green card immigration, and as is so typical of Bush, it's grounded in pragmatism and dealing with economic reality. All of you FR posters who spew your "down with Bush" garbage need to pull your heads out of your arses and take a reality check!

By the way, I am a WASP, despite my posting persona, and a citizen of the US by birth, I'm only latino in spirit, as a result of having lived many years in South America, so you can flame me all you want if you object to my opinions, but don't attack me personally on the assumption that I'm one of those "illegals" you love to hate.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

He says it's temporary. Do you believe that?

No. Not when it's renewable INDEFINITELY every three years. Then they'll marry here and have kids..once again on the taxpayer's dime...and those kids will be CITIZENS. Does anyone seriously believe they'll go home? Or that we'll throw them out? Get real. We're really NOT THAT STUPID MR.President for the time being?

[garandgal]

He also made the point that these 8 million undocumented workers are making an invaluable contribution to our economy.

Oh yes! Why, just a few short years ago, we were paying $20 for lettuce, and $15 for a pound of hamburger since we didn't have the Mexicans here to help us out. Why, I remember slogging around in several inches of garbage in public buildings since their weren't any Mexicans to be janitors...to say nothing of the hotel sheets that hadn't been changed in years (no maids, you know). How did we EVER get along without them?

Sarcasm off. I really DO remember not waiting behind an endless string of illegals using the emergency room for their "free clinic" when I was there to be treated. I really do remember a small Iowa town that didn't have police officers in the schools to control Mexican gangs, as they do now. I really do remember excellent schools that weren't crushed under the extra weight of trying to teach English to thousands of illegals, at the expense of the education of the children of tax-paying citizens.

But, I really don't know why I bother trying to argue facts with people who argue platitudes.

[Richard Kimball]

We're already supplementing illegal aliens. Actually, what we're doing is supplementing the businesses. The wages for illegals may be below what a US worker would make, but they cost significantly less because the employer isn't paying health care, workers comp, vacation or sick leave time, or employer's part of SS or medicare. The illegals are wrecking the health care system by showing up at hospitals, which are legally required to treat them, whenever they need medical care. Also, the illegal, at least in Texas, isn't going to be suing the employer if he or she gets injured on the job. It probably costs over twice as much to hire legal US citizens and pay them the same salary that the illegal receives. I don't know what the actual results of Bush's plan will be, but I do know that part of his strategy is to get this underground economy out in the open. Hiring from outside of the country might not be as tempting if the businesses don't get the perks of treating the employees like slave labor.

I also agree with the point of the article that people are just too mobile now. It's too easy for them to travel. There's over 1500 miles of border between the US and Mexico. The Great Wall really was never a success, except as a tourist attraction, and I don't think one will work any better in the southern US. Most of the hispanics I know are good folks. There are jerks, of course, but having lived in Texas my whole life, I'm pretty comfortable around Mexican culture. There are some problems, of course. The voodoo prevalent in Mexico is frightening, and the corruption of their police officials is legendary. I knew who Bush was when I voted for him, and this move doesn't surprise me at all.

[Richard Kimball]

There's a point in my previous post that isn't clear. When I said people are too mobile, what I meant was that they're too mobile to restrict their movements effectively, not that people are too mobile and we need to figure out a way to nail them down so they can't travel.

[nathanbedford]

I too admire the Latin Culture having lived in South America for a time but I do not want to import that culture in tact into America.

I want to retain my country as it was before the deluge. For this I have been called "natavist." I have been advised to school myself about the wave of immigrants at the turn of the last century and observe how misplaced the natavist concerns were about the southern Europeans. I review the era and conclude that the great post civil war wave of immigration occurred at a time when the frontier was still open and the country was largely agrarian so raw man power was needed and there was plenty of room for all.

Get in your car today and consider as you are locked in place by the sheer press of our population whether you want to sacrifice more of your life locked in a car for the grand and noble ideal of open borders. When you cannot drive your family through the Yellowstone in summer because of the crowds, consider whether we really need scores of millions more competing for open, green and unspoiled America. When your national legislature tells you, as it has, that you can have only enough water in your toilet to guarantee a clog for every third flush you can reassure yourself that our precious water is going to a newly documented worker.

When the political culture of this republic lurches so far left that we bear a frightening resemblance to France, no matter, you can be gratified that you have been PC.

[Fledermaus]

I'm surprised for the WSJ editorial board.

By this reasoning we should just send aircraft carriers to the ports of all horribly backwards countries and just bring as many over that want to come. I bet we could get over 2 million North Koreans alone!

And I wonder how this reconciles with Bush's decision to send back Cuban dissidents trying to flee a tryannical, communist dictator?

Sure, let's send them back to be tortured, imprisoned or killed but if some poor Mexican wants to earn more money...COME ON IN!

Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

[FBD]

Oi Vay...your post didn't help me to feel any better about this debacle!

"Prepare for so many millions of third worlders to invade that our nation will be in total chaos! The schools, the public services..."

We're there already E.W., in some areas. Get ready for a bilingual country...
"Press #2 for English...for 'Espanol, please stay on the line..."

[Penner]

Like it or not, the U.S. is part of an integrating regional and world economy in which the movement of people across borders is inevitable.

If borders are such a pain in the ass then why not eliminate them? Then there are no need for sovereign nations and we can have a one-world gov't. (Oops!)

[Texasforever]

If borders are such a pain in the ass then why not eliminate them?

Well I guess we should build our own iron curtain huh?

[garandgal]

You have hit the nail on the head...it is all about supplementing business at our expense. My question is, aside from the millions already running towards the border in hopes of making it in time to be part of the amnesty, what assurances do we have that another five or ten million will not arrive later...to be part of an entirely new underground culture?

If the first bunch has some type of legal status, and consequently has some of the protections afforded citizen employees...what is to stop the thieves that now employ them illegally, from hiring the new batch of arrivals...thus compounding the problem?

Are we going to actually enforce laws against it? We haven't yet.

[CaptIsaacDavis]

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. THE WH HAD A CHOICE TO ACTUALLY DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND OUR BORDER, AND UPHOLD THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY AND HE CHOSE NOT TO. HE CHOSE TO SURRENDER TO 10-12 MILLION INVADERS, CRIMINALS, MURDERERS OF A NATION. THE MAXIMUM SENTENCES ON THE BOOKS FOR THESE CRIMINALS AND THE EMPLOYERS WHO HIRED THEM ARE MORE THAN 100 MILLION YEARS IN JAIL COMBINED. HOW'S THAT FOR A STAT?

[tickles]

This move doesn't surprise me, since I was aware of his feelings on the issue. He was just the better of a couple crappy choices.

If he puts restrictions on all the freebies ,makes our welfare programs unavailable, low cost clinics that they have to fork over some of their own hard earned cash to pay for...no freebies in the er, make them pay there to, I had to, encourage urgent care at 40 bucks (that's cheap) double it for er. No rent assistance, no ESL classes, fines and deportation for crime. makes sure that going to the polls during elections results in the whole family going back etc.etc. then perhaps it might be the right way to go.
but if all the freebies are available, we continue to finance them and the businesses at the expense of our own elderly and vulnerable populations not to mention our schools............Nope not the right way.

I'm really concidering sitting this presidential election out. And I've voted in every one since I turned 18 way back when. (and I'm sure the demos are jumping up and down with joy at the number of us who are actually concidering something they've never concidered before)

[Penner]

No border, no nation.

[Texasforever]

So you won't be voting libertarian?