Ridge Holds Briefing at 3:30 EST

Fox Cable News | 12/29/2003 | FNC

[cyncooper]

There is nothing magical to sky marshalls,

Didn't say there was. (In fact, I already said in so many words what you just said.)

Also didn't come out against pilots being able to carry a gun. Just that it isn't the ultimate solution.

[Fred Mertz]

You really do live in la-la-land. I'll bet you don't walk in your yard after dark for fear of the boogeyman behind every bush.

[papertyger]

I see there is a contingent here that incorrectly interprets, either by poor comprehension skills or sheer willfulness, any observations that carrying a gun is not the end all and be all of defensive and security measures, as an anti-gun comment. Those observations are not anti-gun, but so eager are you and others to see them as such you leap right on ahead and make that erroneous conclusion.

Well there certainly is nothing feeble about your presumptive skills. I see no reason to omit citizens carrying personal arms in the "layered defense" approach. My response was to someone who seemed to like all the layers exept that one. Your trite hyperbole aside, are you in agreement with that position?

I would appreciate you pointing out that flaw in my opinion though. You were pretty emphatic, so I'm a bit put off by your brevity.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Noted, I disagree.

[cyncooper]

P.S. Of course we're talking about foreign flight crews. Is this thread not about Tom Ridge's statement today regarding flights emanating from foreign countries???

Yes, it is. He announced today that marshalls shall no be on board those flights. Naturally that is what I was referring to.

Still doesn't mean I've said "Aha! Marshalls are the answer to everything!"

[MEG33]

I like the idea of pilots and marshals being armed and of course I believe in citizens being armed.I don't think it's the be all.I'd rather catch them before they board.I want better intelligence gathering.

[papertyger]

Also didn't come out against pilots being able to carry a gun. Just that it isn't the ultimate solution.

Did the ExSoldier say it was? If not, why would you project it on him?

[nopardons]

You're welcome, Fred. A civil query, will always elicit a civil response from me.

[cajungirl]

What on earth are you talking about? Other than insulting me, you didn't really pose a question based on anything. I have posted than the citizenry carrying guns on airlines would open a rich avenue for al Quaeda to get onboard armed. And Al Quaeda is known to be getting people from other countries, particularly Ameericans, to join them in Jihad. Now how does that translate into something worthy of your insults.

[cyncooper]

The part of your comment I took issue with is:

I'm sorry. Is it not self-evident that the armed citizen isn't particularly concerned if the hijacker has a gun?

It's the "not particularly concerned" about the armed hijacker part I thought didn't make sense. I think you were saying the armed good citizen would have the confidence of a powerful weapon of self-defense, but I would say one would be foolish to "not be particularly concerned". I can think of several scenarios where the armed hijacker could wreak havoc and the armed good citizen not necessarily saving the day.

[cyncooper]

He argued for pilots being armed. I had not said I was against them, and I underscored that in the post you are referring to. I certainly did not say he said guns were the ultimate solution so don't know how I could project onto him something I did not say.

[Fred Mertz]

You don't really read what you write. That was my only point.

[cajungirl]

What led you to say that other than my typing is atrocious? How do you know I don't read what I write? You haven't addressed your insults. We are conversing here, not insulting, so I am looking for some clarity. Either that or an abject apology. For your information, while I am old now, I have done some very gutsy dangerous things in my life. I do not fear bogeymen.

[ExSoldier]

Actually I heard Ridge specifically refer to flights coming to American airports from overseas; flights emanating from American airports bound for overseas destinations AND flights just in US airspace. I think that just about covers all permutations. And the sky marshall is not the ultimate solution, just the last solution possible on board an aircraft. There is one more. We call it F-15 with air-to-air missiles.

[papertyger]

Your explaination makes sense, but it is a rather cynical interpretation of what I said.

I thought it self-evident that anyone taking advantage of the right to arm themselves embraces the right of everyone else to do the exact same thing. Again, Heinlein is implict in this mindset. The safest course for everyone in an armed society (even as small as a passenger list) is to remain polite and non-offensive.

I would love to hear some of your scenarios, so long as you drop the condecending "saving the day" fantasies. Bear in mind, wreaking havoc is not a legitimate plan. Terrorists have a goal, and you have to achieve the goal by planning your attack with an unknown number of armed opponents.

[papertyger]

I certainly did not say he said guns were the ultimate solution so don't know how I could project onto him something I did not say.

Perhaps it's just a reading comprehension problem, but to what purpose did you write:Just that it isn't the ultimate solution.?

[cyncooper]

Indeed. We are in perfect agreement.

[sarasmom]

Ah, my beloved Black Sheep, Buyaps and Iron Knights!
I imagine most thinking individuals would prefer the possible complications of an armed pilot or air marshall over the always lethal complications of an encounter with an F-15 with shoot down orders.

[sarasmom]

Buyaps=Bunyaps.

[smith288]

just looked again at your cat pic. framed in the window. Looks to me like something you could of have done in photoshop? right

It was googled... But if you want, I can take a pic of my own cat and frame it using Photoshop.