The death of President John F. Kennedy 40 years ago.

The Daily Oklahoman ^ | 11/16/03 | David Zizzo

[Doctor Don]

A front page article in the Sunday Oklahoman recounts events and people around the death of JFK 40 years ago. My name is mentioned in the article which details some of the events that I as a young surgical resident at Parkland Hospital witnessed that day in 1963. I am the one who kept the rose. The online article at www.dailyoklahoman.com requires an email address and password to access. In the initial page click on the blue lettered "assassination of John F. Kennedy" to see the larger article. After today, Sunday the 16th, the article may be found in the archives. Thanks for your time!

[eno_]

Why can't you post the full article? Is this a Post/LAT paper?

[anncoulteriscool]

They had some show one the history channel about the Kennedy presidency. It was tough to watch since they had a bunch of dopey northeastern college students there and Phil Donahue was the host.

[dts32041]

Ah the second member of the Punk Group "Dead Kennedys".

What would have happened if he lived, the great society would not have happened, civil rights act of 64 for not have past, we would have not mad it to the moon, and Viet Nam would probably have lasted longer.

[veronica]

Absolutely one of the worst days in the history of country. There is no way to measure what we lost that day.

The Death of a President by William Manchester is the best book I have read about that black day. Riveting, heartbreaking.

[veronica]

My name is mentioned in the article which details some of the events that I as a young surgical resident at Parkland Hospital witnessed that day in 1963.

Wow. I'll read it.

[NautiNurse]

A bloodstained rose speaks of the tragic events of Nov. 22, 1963. Dr. Donald Gilliland shows a rose believed to have been discarded by the first lady. Photo by Steve Sisney

[kenth]

Having been born years after the event, I guess I'll never understand the near saintliness attributed to this man.

[boothead]

Yeah! And we wouldn't have had to put up with Lyndon J. and his famous words. "God Almighty couldn't get a bill passed in Congress unless it went thru me." Probably has second thoughts now.

[Clara Lou]

A) He had a GREAT PR machine, with old Joe Kennedy behind it.
B) He had a beautiful young wife who was a good woman, and it showed.
C) Profiles in Courage (more PR) and heroism in WWII
D) The nation prayed,then wept, at the death of one of his babies. The nation rejoiced when John, Jr., survived.
That's why he approaches (undeservedly) sainthood.

[dts32041]

I don't either nor the near deification of the whole boozing whoring murdering klan.

[Helms]

Kennedys Ghost is brought up every year-not Reagan.

[Maria S]

"Having been born years after the event, I guess I'll never understand the near saintliness attributed to this man."


1963 seems like a million years ago AND yesterday! In the Texas Panhandle, JFK was NOT liked...but certainly, we did not rejoice at his death! It was the most remarkable thing that we, the baby boomers, had ever seen. FDR's death and Pearl Harbor were our parents black days; JFK's assassination was ours. Personally, it was unbelievable to me that a president could be killed! That sort of thing just did NOT happen! The way that Jacqueline Kennedy conducted herself afterward was almost as remarkable...She was only 34 I think, and exhibited a class that remained in our minds for years.

The moments involving her children were the most wrenching for a lot of us: Caroline's tiny gloved hand sneaking underneath the flag on her daddy's coffin in the rotunda, and John's baby salute to his daddy.

And seeing Oswald being shot and killed on national TV! All movies (drive-ins and theaters) were cancelled for the weekend, along with local football games. Life came to a standstill that long weekend, and NOBODY left their television set...in black and white, of course.

Just a few still vivid memories of an older person; you younger posters will hopefully have the same vivid memories of how you felt and what you saw on 9/11/01. As far as JFK's legacy, he was not in office long enough to have earned the status that he now holds.

[Consort]

Lingering Camelot Syndrome (LCS). It will last untill all the '60s Leftists are dead and buried.

[ShadowDancer]

I have to agree with you.

[RightWhale]

JFK was NOT liked

Forget that. It was Camelot.

[karen999]

Maria, you are right. Politically, today, I can not STAND the Kennedys as a group. JFK, however, was no where near like the pompous dirtbag Teddy is. It's true that all that "camelot" was a bunch of manufactured BS. HOWEVER, it should be borne in mind that Kennedy certainly didn't SEEK that.... He was a very complex man and in the balance his presidency comes out as some good/some bad. Pretty average, overall. Jackie Kennedy, WAS deservedly a paragon of dignity and grace under stress. And no matter what you thought of JFK's politics (his personal womanizing was hidden by the press then) he DID have quite a mercurical sense of humor and the man did not take him self too seriously. And though he shouldn't have served in the military he pulled strings to get in. You have to give him credit for that.

When people talk about those times wistfully, they are also mourning to some extent the loss of innocence of those times...and the simple pleasures. There were few anti-American freaks parading around calling themselves "patriotic" because they were burning flags. Often times people didn't lock their doors...kids of 9 or so went trick or treating without mommy and daddy hovering over their every move...kids didn't have their pictures on milk cartons, if you wanted to bring a handgun on an airplane no one freaked out, the urban riots hadn't happened yet, marijuana wasn't being smoked by kids in YOUR neighborhood, the teacher didn't have to fear some 12 year old pulling a knife on him/her and 2nd graders didn't tell a teacher to go "F" themselves. Security tags in stores weren't on everything, and you didn't have teen aged girls regularly trying to dress like sluts. Families did try and stay together and make a go of it, not just "trade out" "trade up" when the first unpleasant thing happened. We hadn't started legally murdering the unborn. True, those times were not "perfect" by any means (there was a lot of racial injustice at the time) but they were a LOT more simpler, wholesome, and less materialistic than they are now.

I was young when the assassination happened, but I remember that weekend like it was yesterday. Materially, we are better off now...but back then as a nation we were better off spiritually on the whole. There was a whole sea change after the JFK assassination that marked the end of an era. Yes, a lot of the things that came to pass would have had Kennedy been killed or not, but it is a definite demarcation.

[RightWhale]

they are also mourning to some extent the loss of innocence of those times

The effect was exactly that. WTC911 was a hit on our innocence, but we got over that. Dallas is something we'll never get over. For a while we had culture, style, grace, old Europe style. While we have style and grace now and then, cowboy style, culture is not American. But we had it for 3 years.

[TheExploited]

I was 7 years old when it happened. I remember the day so vividly. It is probably one of the most memorable days of my childhood. We were in a small reading group in the back of the room. Mrs. Scott (our second grade teacher who loved to take us on field trips) kept going in and out of the the room. Our classroom was right across the hall from "the Office" where they had a television. Finally, she came in crying and said that the President had died. All the teachers were crying. It was really a sad day.

It was all over the television for the next few days. My little brother was all upset there were no cartoons.

The Jack Kennedy Presidency was probably much hype and PR. Whatever value he provided to this country has been offset by impact of his worthless alcoholic brother and other family members. Only Jackie, JFK, Jr and Caroline have any class. The Shriver clan may have hope as well.

[hoosiermama]

I was a senior in high school, helping out in the school office. While our office staff sat in shock listening to the radio, the principal sent me around to the classrooms to discretely tell the teachers and ask if they wanted the intercome turned on in their room. (He didn't want to interupt any testing.) Parents started arriving soon to pick up their children.

My father taped the radio broadcast. We still have it, after listening to it repeatedly both agree there was something not told to the public.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Do you remember where you where on the morning of September 11, 2001?

Did you stare at the TV as a passenger airplane tilted slightly for maximum effect just before it crashed directly into the middle of a New York landmark?

As you were watching the carnage in disbelief, were you able to make out the faces of the human beings who were jumping to their grotesque deaths? Did you hear the "pops" on the cement in the background as bodies hit the pavement?

Did you watch men and women frantically waving from broken windows, only to disappear as the flames consumed them?

When you heard that the Pentagon was on fire and maybe the White House was next, were you terrified that the country was under attack and you were helpless and horrified and nearly hysterical with fear and pain?

Will you always remember where you were when you heard the sound of that airplane engine gunning full-throttle as it carried mothers and sons and grandparents and babies to their deaths?

Will you forever be changed by the week that followed, the endless searching for survivors, and the hopeless agony of finding none?

Will you always remember the look of stunned despair on the survivors' faces; the tears of President Bush when he spoke about "the children lost;" the fear on your own child's face when you tried to explain what had just happened?

Did you pray to God that everything would be normal again, someday?

If you did, then maybe you can imagine what it was like to hear that the President of the United States had been assassinated, his head blown apart, his brains splattered against the back of the Lincoln; and then to sit in your living room in front of a flickering black and white television screen and watch the President's accused killer shot in the stomach live, as it was happening.

An entire generation was changed that day in November; just like another generation four decades later.

JFK may not have been "saintly." But he was our President, just as the WTC was ours. And the violence that was done to both will never be forgotten.

[lasereye]

Having been born years after the event, I guess I'll never understand the near saintliness attributed to this man.

He did or tried to do things that were non-ideological that a lot of people could get behind, like his pledge to put a man on the moon before the end of the decade. He also staffed his administration with technocrat types like Robert McNamara who came over from Ford Motor Company I believe. He also made an attempt to revamp the nations educational curriculum. I think the "new math" that they started teaching in schools then came from that. It just created the appearance of "getting the country moving" again.

He did or stood for things conservatives liked. He was clearly anti-communist. His administration introduced combat troops to Vietnam. He cut taxes which created a boom. He expanded our naval force - adding one or two carrier groups and created the Minuteman ICBM missile program to counter what he perceived as a Soviet edge in that area.

He did things liberals liked too. He introduced a lot of new domestic spending that liberals wanted, like the medicare and food stamps progams. So there was something for everybody to like about him. The left over the years has created a hallucination that his administration was going to remove the troops from Vietnam - for which there's no evidence - and that's why he was assassinated. Blacks of course loved his pro-Civil rights stances. He pushed for the Voting Rights Act, although it was actually passed in 1964 or 65.

[South Dakota]

And seeing Oswald being shot and killed on national TV!


yes I saw that

[kenth]

You misunderstand. I did not say I did not understand why people are upset at the assassination of a President. I said I don't understand why the man is revered, other than because of his death.

[FreedomPoster]

>>Having been born years after the event, I guess I'll never understand the near saintliness attributed to this man.

I was born just a few years before the event, and I darn sure don't understand it, either.

If you ever want to piss off Lefties, get them going on Kennedy. They will almost certainly start making statements like "one of the best Presidents of all time".

Then ask them what it was he did, that made him such a great President. It's hilarious to watch.

[GatekeeperBookman]

It is similiar to believing Madonna is a very pretty 'lady' who should be a role model( instead of the scum she really is ). Oh, forget it!

"The War has many facets; http://aztlan.net/ Look at your enemy."

[itsahoot]

Lingering Camelot Syndrome (LCS). It will last untill all the '60s Leftists are dead and buried.

Bring back Vaughn Meader! I hope some here remember his humor.

[GatekeeperBookman]

Far, far more serious than the death of a comparatively inconsequential President, was the violence done our nation & the world by the 'thing' known as LBJ. Extremely infrequent acts of violence against leaders seems, to me, far less bothersome than protracted evil.

My Dad was watching the funeral of LBJ intently & I asked what on earth for-"Because he was so crooked, I think they shall have to screw him into the ground".

Read A Texan Looks at Lyndon, J. Evetts Haley. We did not need Robt. Caro to tell us about the 'thing'. By the end of Viet Nam, he & 'lady bird' had purchased over one-third of the formerly independent banks in Texas-they had to have a place to put all that money they got from Brown & Root and 'other' enterprises. I even know a small town merchant-a first cousin of the 'Thing', who was a delivery point for containers of cash-really-cases of cash.

"The War has many facets; http://aztlan.net/ Look at your enemy."

[Consort]

We can also bring back Vaughan Monroe while we're at it.

[GatekeeperBookman]

Now that warped my young mind-I still have nightmares! Oh the horror! A man actually SHOT in Texas-my quiet, safe warm Texas!

My goodness-by the time I was 5 I KNEW there were people who needed shooting. Happened all the time. Percy Foreman was there to explain it. When he quit, Race Horse Haines took up the role. Stuff happens to bad folks.

I want to know when we get the real story. Heard a few years ago from some very old fill-in on talk show that Ruby's wife ran high-end dress shop-Oswald's wife worked there for rubenstiens wife!! They were pals!!

"The War has many facets; http://aztlan.net/ Look at your enemy."

[GatekeeperBookman]

His wonderful support of the landing at the Bay of Pigs will be his real legacy. Was gutless political cowardice a non-partisan thing? Word has it He pulled the plug on those guys. How is it the Left says he would have 'pulled out' of Viet Nam 'almsot the day after' he was shot-yet he was hip-deep in an assasination of the leader-is that a non-congruent set? My 10th grade geometry teacher would have marked it so.

"The War has many facets; http://aztlan.net/ Look at your enemy."

[Henchman]

Only an ignorant idiot would think the "leftists" liked JFK. you echo the bigotry that Kennedy defeated in obtaining his election. His "Camelot" syndrome was the carisma that got many interested in politics - including myself. Personally, I am to the right of Atilla the Hun. Kennedy faced down the Soviet Union over Cuba. Yes, he made mistakes, but he was not as far left as you think. His brother was the finest Attorney General we ever had - he initiated the drive against organized crime among other things. Yes, they initiated the integration of the South and that was correct at the time, even if it has gone too far today.

By the way DUH, how old are you? It is evident you are either a left over bigot or young and uneducated.

[wolficatZ]

3 1/2 hours of ABC's coverage; I heard you can get this on DVD now.

Reporting JFK was on his way to the Trademart to make a speech on "right wing fanaticism". "Rightwing" and "Rightwing fanaticism" is mentioned numerous times in the live broadcast. Lots of wild speculation and on air bumbling as it happened.

Jean Hill and Mary Moorman and the famous "Moorman Photo"
appear live.
A must watch, all kinds of fishy stuff reported.


http://www.earthstation1.com/Kennedys/JFKTVCoverage631122a.rm

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I understood you.

I don't think what you hear from people is "reverence."

It's the aftermath of the visible, violent and permanent destruction of something that is your own. The "emotions" you see are due to the lingering questions and the repugnant truth.

[dts32041]

I don't either nor the near deification of the whole boozing whoring murdering klan.

[dts32041]

I don't either nor the near deification of the whole boozing whoring murdering klan.

[dts32041]

I don't either nor the near deification of the whole boozing whoring murdering klan.

[soozla]

"We can also bring back Vaughan Monroe while we're at it."

I think you're referring to Vaughn Meader

Did the most "DEAD ON" (forgive the pun) JFK impersonation ever! I don't think he has been equaled since!

[dts32041]

Nope but he use to drink em dry in Hollwell Maine, right outside of augusta.

[kenth]

Well, no, I don't think you did as you went on to make a comparison to 9/11. I've already explained that I understand those who exhibit emotion based on witnessing and extremely tragic event and the loss of the President.

I don't think what you hear from people is "reverence."

So when I hear people talk of 'camelot', the magical times, what a wonderful President he was, etc. that's not reverence? I just fail to see how his death, while tragic, propels his Presidency to that of fabled status. I'm not arguing that all see him this way.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I only read the first line of your post.

That's all the time I spend on idiots.

[Consort]

Only an ignorant idiot would think the "leftists" liked JFK.

Put some ice on it. Kennedy was a mediocre President, at best.

you echo the bigotry that Kennedy defeated in obtaining his election.

Stick the "idiot" and "bigotry' crap in your ear. "Obtaining": you got that right. Even your Liberal friends admit that he was elected with a lot of fraud.

His "Camelot" syndrome was the carisma that got many interested in politics - including myself.

And many others didn't need him to get interested in politics. Your choice of idols leaves a lot to be desired, considering his overall lifestyle.

Personally, I am to the right of Atilla the Hun. Kennedy faced down the Soviet Union over Cuba.

He lost the Cuban missile Crisis by removing our missiles from Turkey....he fell for a ploy.

Yes, he made mistakes, but he was not as far left as you think.

The Bay of Pigs was a big one and he was Left enough to bother those on the right who didn't fall under his spell.

His brother was the finest Attorney General...

His brother did a good job, overall, and appeared to be a much better man than JFK was.

Now, what all this stuff about your being to the right of Atilla the Hun?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You should read some actual books.

Maybe you'll understand. Maybe not.

[Consort]

I think you're referring to Vaughn Meader

Post #27 referred to Vaughn Meader and my post referred to Vaughan Monore. We were doing a Vaughn retrospective. Do you like the music of Sarah Vaughn?

[BobS]

Let's finish the job! Put some LSD in Teddy's morning dring, before he goes on the Senate floor!

[Al Simmons]

JFK's death was not only a terrible tragedy; it also brought forth a catastrophy that rolls on to this day;

JFK was an anti-communist, pro-capitalist, low-tax Democrat.

Because of the "sympathy factor", a dyed-in-the-wool FDR socialist (LBJ) got incredible majorities in the Congress, which allowed him to royally sc*ew the nation with the "Great Society" - not to mention his indecisiveness in Viet Nam.

JFK would have won in '64, but by nowhere near the majorities LBJ got; some of the secrets (the women, his Addison's disease, the drugs) would have, in all likelihood manifested or been uncovered before his term ended; a much more conservative society might well have elected a Republican in '68, but under far different circumstances.

The culture war that started in the 60s might have taken longer to unfold and been a bad cold instead of a pneumonia.

"Alternate history" is fun to speculate on.

Everytime I see the Zapruder film, I find myself fantasizing about being the SS-man on the president's limo runner (there was none, the duty agent having been waived off the limo as it left Love Field - a truly chilling video given what happened), and leaping on top of him after the first, but before the third shot.

The head of the SS detail who waived off the agent who SHOULD have been riding on the Prez's limo's running board must have had one h*ll of a life re-running that move in his head over and over and over.

One story, which cannot be confirmed, says that the night before, JFK himself told the SS head to "keep those Ivy League boys" off my car. Whatever triggered it, it was a tragic move.

[Miss Marple]

I still have the record album "The First Family" which came out a few months before the assassination. I have never listened to it since.

People who were not born, or were too young to remember, do not understand the emotional toll this took on the country.

I was a sophomore in high school, and when it happened the intercom came on with the radio broadcast. My German teacher, who was a Lithuanian immigrant, became so upset that she left the room. We sat in class in silence and listened in disbelief.

We spent all weekend in front of the television. My newspaper advisor and one of the history teachers drove through the night to DC in order to pay respects (all the way from Indianapolis).

It seemed in the weeks after that nothing was ever going to be the same. My grandmother (a staunch Republican) insisted that she host Thanksgiving that year "while we are all still together."

In the years since then, we have learned some unpleasant truths about the Kennedy family. Yet despite all that, the trauma of that day and the dignity with which this nation, led by Jaqueline Kennedy, conducted itself, remains as a marker on my youth. Try as I can, I cannot think ill of them despite what I know.

[Doctor Don]

I was in Parkland Hospital on Sunday after the assassination and encountered Marina Oswald, Mrs. Oswald and the children enroute to the morgue to view the body of Lee Harvey Oswald.