U.S. Helicopter Crashes in Iraqi City of Mosul

Reuters ^ | 11-15-03

[cake_crumb]

I'm not against the war in Iraq because I understand the necessity of it, having studied the region for 30 years. I'm also not one of the ones calling for nuking, MOABing or "liquidation" of entire vialliages. Our military does not operate that way. In fact, we've gone so far out of our way to avoid civilian casualties, it's hampering the effort to get at the bad guys. There is no parallel between what a few fightened, bloodthirsty people ranting anonymously SAY and what our military has done.

What we have done has not been perfect, or without error, but it is not as bad as the media has made it out to be. The Bush administration has only wanted the media to make as much of our successeses as they have of our failures. In other words, a fair and balanced picture of what's really going on. We haven't gotten that.

Politicising the loss of life is politicising the loss of life, no matter what side of the issue anyone is on. It's equally bad and sickening when the Dems do it, when Republicans do it, bad when Greens do it and bad when Libertarians do it. There is NO excuse and NO moral high ground when politicising the loss of life.

[arete]

Blow it your a--!

You must be one of those republican intellectuals. LOL

Richard W.

[jimbo123]

Your hero Clinton made love to the Oval Office sink. You must be proud.

[arete]

Your hero Clinton made love to the Oval Office sink. You must be proud.

Clinton was a lying jerk and a disgrace. Things haven't changed much and that is disappointing, isn't it?

Richard W.

[TomGuy]

FoxNews just breaking: 17 dead in this tragedy.

[Burkeman1]

Well- I am against this war- But I like your post and agree.

[boxerblues]

I just heard this as well.

[cake_crumb]

"Oh- that would have to be Bush's use of the 9/11 deaths to justify this war in Iraq."

Plain and simple: no, he didn't. Not once. Never. The media claiming his did is the same media that tried to turn 16 words he didn't say into a micro-gate, trolling for political capital, parroted Hillary!'s "what did Bush know and when did he know it" mantra and tried to being a spinoff of Blair/Kelly into American television.

You're not looking back over several decades of understanding Saddam and Arab politics and the interrelationships between various factions. I am. Saddam was a kingpin of terrorism. He funded it. He provided training grounds. There was a PLF bomb factory in downtown Baghdad, complete with Pali terrorists, which caused a running firefight through the streets of Baghdad and ended in the death of an Arab reporter stupid enough to stick something with a lense out of a window and get himself shot.

The war was justified on it's own merits. You're refusing to coldly analyse all the facts available and starting with set, preconceived notions that which eventually cause anyone to bend the facts to fit the theory, rather than proving or disproving the theory analytically. Start by reading the Kay report. What do YOU think Saddam was doing with secret labs under prisons - which the UN inspectors never found - making candy? What do you think he was doing stashing chemical ready warheads with "insecticide"? Bombing the bugs in the eggplant fields?

[Burkeman1]

It is so much more than 16 words and you know it. Judge Bush like we did Clinton. My God- if we had the same material and incidents against Clinton that we have against Bush? Come on! Conservatives are not hypocrites!

[jimbo123]

So Mr. Wad is a disillusioned Clintonoid. Poor you. Are you a Hitlery minion or a disciple of Dean the Mad Abortionist? Sucks to be a demoncrat.

[Burkeman1]

Hey Swipe Hard? I am not a Southhampton loser like you? I am not on drugs.

I will give you my name tough guy. Just ping me on private. I will send you my name and then you send me yours- we agree on the site that we fist fight without "seconds"? ok?

[arete]

So Mr. Wad is a disillusioned Clintonoid. Poor you. Are you a Hitlery minion or a disciple of Dean the Mad Abortionist? Sucks to be a demoncrat.

I wouldn't know. I'm a conservative.

Richard W.

[cake_crumb]

I AM judging him on the same terms as Clinton. He just didn't do what he's accused of doing. I can't help that, and I'm not going to condemn him for something he didn't say or do. Believe it or not, I wouldn't have condemned Clinton for something he didn't do either. It took a long time for me to get enough verified evidence to believe some of the things Clinton was accused of doing. And speaking of judging Bush like Clinton, how many kids in Waco has President Bush order killed? Or Ruby Ridge? Or anywhere else in the country? Why aren't we under marshall law? You DO know Clinton wrote EOs to set up complete marshal law in the event of an atrocity like 9/11/01 don't you?

[montag813]

No helicopter in the world can survive an RPG attack. No helicopter is armoured in that way, not even the Russian Mi-24/25/35 HIND.

So why do we continually fly them in a range where the RAND study shows massive vulnerability beyond tactical advantage?

[arete]

You don't think for an instant that any of these keyboard rambos are going to take you up on that do you? They're the kind of people who hind in the shadows too afraid to move in case there may be a commie or "evil-doer" out there. Half of them ran out and bought duct tape and plastic because that nitwit Ridge told them to. You aren't dealing with either the intellectual or physical elite here, ya know.

Richard W.

[Burkeman1]

Waco? Ruby Ridge? Clinton "said" nothing about those events! You know that! But he did make carefully worded speeches that his followers in the media amplified and even embellished.

Bush didn't do the same at all? 87 percent of Americans thought Iraq was an "Immenient" threat to us when Bush never really said it was- but his minions all over of the press said so and said repeatedly. FR people didn't talk about the "mushroom" cloud over NYC? Limbaugh never talked about it? His people never leaked things to helpful media? Kinda like the last in the WEEKLY STANDARD that links Al Queda to Iraq?

[arete]

Both parties are moving us closer and closer to a fascist police state in case you hadn't noticed. The two party system is a joke when all politicians become just different branches of a larger criminal organization. All they do is hand the power back and forth making to look like we really have a choice. Not the way it is.

Richard W.

[cake_crumb]

"Waco? Ruby Ridge? Clinton "said" nothing about those events!"

Oh, it had to be things he SAID. Sorry. Misunderstood. Actions and words are too closely related to me.

"But he did make carefully worded speeches that his followers in the media amplified and even embellished."

Not really. The media left his words alone and didn't change them. What the media mainly did with Clinton was parse the underlying meaning of his words. They constantly "interpreted" intent and the ideas behind his words, while leaving the original quote alone. THEN they were firmly in the realm of fantasy fiction, attributing all sorts of wisdom and compassion to him that Clinton simply does not have. It was perfect. Say Clinton made a really non-commital, short statment in answer to a question. Journalists would then write a long piece about how how his statements proved his utter benignity, and throw in the non-commital statement or parts of it as quasi-proof that their particular interpretation must be correct.

The media doesn't do that with President Bush. The media has indeed misquoted him and attributed statements to him that he never, EVER even made. President Bush does not have control of the media. In fact, Clinton doesn't. It's just that most of the media leans far to the left...exactly where the Clinton's are.

[Burkeman1]

I have long given up on the heroism of online posting. I have met about two people who are men, in person, on this site. Johngalt and A.Pole.

The rest are just cyber waste.

[jimbo123]

A Buchananite? LOL! No wonder you're so angry.