France and Germany discuss union

Guardian ^ | 11/13/03 | Jon Henley in Paris

[Pikamax]

France and Germany discuss union

Jon Henley in Paris Thursday November 13, 2003 The Guardian

France and Germany are publicly discussing the possibility of a "Franco-German union" that would allow them to cooperate more closely in such areas as education, social affairs and the economy and even merge their defence and foreign policies, the French daily Le Monde said yesterday. The paper said that at this stage Europe's two most powerful nations, whose historic enmity has been transformed into the main driving force towards European integration, saw the project primarily as a tactic to ensure that countries such as Spain and Poland do not block the planned European constitution, paralysing the EU as it expands to 25 members next year.

But beyond short-term tactical considerations, some form of Franco-German union is seen by leaders particularly in Paris as a vital future step. The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, said the project was "essential" and "the only historic gamble that we cannot lose".

The prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, who earlier this month hoisted a joint meeting of French and German regional authorities, also believes the two countries' relations have never been closer and that the time is ripe to go "pretty far", Le Monde said. After a shaky period during and immediately after the stormy Nice EU summit in December 2000, Paris and Berlin have worked conspicuously hard to get the so-called Franco-German motor firing again.

Their efforts culminated earlier this year when the French president, Jacques Chirac, and the German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, signed a declaration promising more cooperation in areas ranging from crime to foreign policy.

They also said France and Germany would seek to "adopt common positions" in international bodies, including the UN security council, hold joint cabinet meetings, harmonise national laws wherever possible, and each appoint a senior official to oversee Franco-German cooperation.

Since then the two countries' relationship has been further cemented by the role they played in opposing the US-led invasion of Iraq, and more recently Mr Chirac represented Mr Schröder at an European council meeting in October.

But it is the realisation in both capitals that without the closest possible cooperation, France and Germany could well lose much of their influence in a larger EU that seems to be driving the project for a Franco-German union.

Le Monde quoted Mr Raffarin as saying: "If Europe with 25 members is a failure, what is left for France? The initiative of Franco-German rapprochement."

The prime minister reportedly continued, during a recent informal debate, to praise the "efficiency" of Paris's relations with Berlin and to say he could "well imagine that one day a German commissioner could represent France in Brussels."

[Publius6961]

Well, in Great Britain, they don't call the "new" EU the Fourth Reich for no reason.

It takes the frogs a while to catch on...

[Alter Kaker]

Maybe if the capital were Aachen....

What is this Aachen? You mean Aix-la-Chapelle?

[GeronL]

Then again who believes anything published in the Guardian??

[glorgau]

No concentration camps Europe is now suitably JudenFrei.

[Eternal_Bear]

They haven't been joined in almost 1200 years. Everything old becomes new again. Charlemagne defended Western Civilization against all barbarians. Maybe his time has come again.

[FITZ]

Isn't this pretty much what we're doing with Mexico?

[BnBlFlag]

In light of the pending Muslim takeover of both countries, this is like the proverbial "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic".

[SAMWolf]

In its current form it's totally unacceptable by the vast majority of Poles. Only 7% of Poles accept the French proposal without any objections, while 72% of the questioned reject it "en mass". 43% of Poles (me, too) say it’s a french trial to take our Independence away and find the project of the constitution insulting and outrageous.

That's good news, hopefully Poland rejects any takeover of their independence.

[Cdnexpat]

I believe that the German constitution forbids nukes. Would that mean they would have to be destroyed? Would they alter the constitution, or would the constitution just be another empty document that neither the French or the Germans will honor, or is the new treaty the empty document. It all gets so confusing when liars are involved.

[maestro]

No concentration camps Europe is now suitably JudenFrei.

But,.......the 'camps' were for 'christians' too!

(Stalin/Hitler)

:-(

[Michael81Dus]

Huh? History class was too boring? I only remember that Napolean has marched through Germany... but German troops have been in 1870/71, 1914-18 and 1940-1945 in France.

You´re not going to count WW1 or WW2 for the French, are you?

[Michael81Dus]

No, the German constitution does not forbid nukes. In fact, the German government was already authorised by the parliament to build up own nuclear weapons in the late 50´s. But D.C. called Adenauer to cancel these plans, because of French, British and Soviet concerns. Adenauer agreed and so, later, several treaties were signed compelling Germany give up the idea of nukes. But what are treaties - Germany could just follow the US example!

However, such a union is crap and will never become reality. Germany would never want it.

[1Old Pro]

At least they are admitting that they are two failed countries. However, I suspect that combining two non-productive economies will only sink them sooner.

[NovemberCharlie]

I only remember that Napolean has marched through Germany... but German troops have been in 1870/71, 1914-18 and 1940-1945 in France.

I was referring to Napoleon, and to Charlemagne, when he conquered Germany and created the Holy Roman Empire.

[Styria]

Ahem. Let's use the language of the rulers, not the conquered....

[nmh]

This will be amusing since the every day French person HATES Germany and feels head and should above them. They prefer socialism and abhor those that still have some captialistic instinct in them and has a better ecomony than them.

Germans HATE the French and consider them lazy socialists, even though they are rather socialized. Still there is a hatred for them.

[SBprone]

France and Germany discuss union.......................the two countries' relations have never been closer......................the time is ripe to go "pretty far......................France and Germany would seek to "adopt common positions"

I guess you could say they're hot to trot!

[SBprone]

Funny...there never was much discussion in previous French/ German unions.

That's right. It was more like slam, bam, thank you ma'am.

[goldstategop]

Two countries that were historic enemies and fought three bloody wars over the course of the late nineteenth to mid twentieth centuries. A Franco-German union? How times have changed!