Brazilian land grabs spur violence, deaths - Owners hire guards to keep the poor away

you really think lula is going to 'grab' power? how?

He already has won, it was the election(just as Chavez won the election if Venezuela), all he needs to do is solidify it as this is the period where he is vulnerable. Will it take another election for him solidify it, we will have to see how he and his PT party will play it. Chavez had to hang in there before making his move, and he is successful. However Lula doesn't have that luxury. So to solidify his power he will create a crisis in Brazil and before the next election. One between the leftist forces including MST(backed by the PT and Castro if you don't find something wrong with this picture you have no understanding of communist strategy) and those pro business forces and other more rightist sectors of the populations. If the United States is any indicator as to the moral leanings and stomach for a fight of the right and business, I put absolutely no stock or faith in these forces that could but an end to what Lula will do and right the injustices of the past. Those forces are too easily splintered and that is where Lula will attack first in which case you don't need an army when you have the poor on your side(though they don’t know it) Simply using the down trodden to achieve your victory is the height of communist deception, this is how Lenin won in Russia who the poor thought he would right the wrongs of the Tsars. Man where they ever mistaken when Lenin put the knife to their backs. As I see it Lula and company are in full control, and if need be Chavez and Castro will offer more than just token support if need be. To much is riding on Brazil for the communists to fail. . Lula is a communist and being so he has absolutely no intention in creating reforms. The MST violates the law by employing the tactics that it does on existing owners, the Brazilian government is employing socialism and cronyism by the way it hands out land. To favor one is a recipe for chaos as we have brewing here, all it needs is a little push. Then sit back and watch the fireworks.

'then why did he put privatizers and wall streeters in his cabinet ? and why is he attacking his biggest support base by implementing pension reforms?'

The simple answer to this is that he needs to string both sides along. If he doesn't show some kind of support for the business side then he will definitely be thrown out. So he and his cohorts pick people to fill those positions. Note what I said, the left picked the people. The question then arises are these people legitimate probusiness or are they PT hacks that are playing well scripted lines by taking opposition to the left wing in the current government or is this a combination of both where the hacks have the top positions while the legitimate have the lower positions or not so important ones? In either cases it keeps the rightist side appeased to the extent that enough will still support the current government while the rest will not take any physical action against it. Any promises are in name only or watered down to the point that the PT party has little to worry about it. Let me draw your attention to the following article, I think you will find it of interest: http://www.tfp.org/lulawatch/nov3/1.html#1

Then there is pension reform. This is just another way of courting favor with the otherwise, keeping them at ease. What is Lula's base really going to do to him? Vote someone else in? Who? Go into an angry mob and take him out? I have yet to see a bunch of thumb suckers attack the very thing that has hindered any meaningful reform. They will have to face the music and accept it if there is any true meaningful reform, but as of yet his government has done everything to drag things out. Anyone who steps out of control will be told to clam it, the nice thing about being on the left is the group thought and per pressure tactics work quite well in keeping people in line. If the other side won the election, I guarantee you that the things would have changed with a vengeance and the PT would have stirred the pot so much so you would have thought it was Argentina all over again. One other thing Lula said he would do was default on those hefty loans, but he hasn’t and has taken more to pay off what Brazil owes.. He needs the money to keep the facade alive just a little while longer.

You misunderstand by what I mean by nice intellectual package(I was being somewhat sarcastic in my tone). They have to sell it some how to those existing outside the targeted country(s) so as to continue strengthening their base for the day when they make a move in those outside countries not to mention ensuring that there is no outside interference with their revolution. They and their supporters year after year have touted the superiority of their movement, their own self righteous purity, and/or own intellect for why a new ever lasting 'utopia' will be upon us. As it is, it simply is a package to get recruits and keep a nice PR image with as many as they can to continue the chaos elsewhere with out using words that describe what they really are doing. As we know, if you start calling the situation by what it really is, someone is bound to eventually wake up. These thieves don’t want that to happen.

And as far as to what you say about the state causing the chaos, having the people clamor for order, and then the state grabbing more power till it is absolute, I completely agree with. This is where I think Lula and company are going with all that they are doing. Who needs an army when the people are more than willing to put themselves into servitude.

'but its not a string, he's actually putting in place the policies. he's got the wall street journal and wall street itself convinced -- and those guys are no fools'

Need I remind you that these are the same guys who have built a large and expansive industrial base for the PRC. The same PRC who had a general threaten to nuke LA in 1996, the whole west coast in 2000, the same PRC who arms Pakistan, coddles Islamic terrorists, took the Spratly Islands from the Philippines in 1994, the same PRC who has every intention on prepping for what it calls the inevitable conflict with America. These fools having taken a back watered country behind in technology by about 45 to 50 years and made them just about on par with us in about 20 years. Oh, yea these guys are real bright, about as bright as a 2 watt light bulb. If they think there is a profit in it for them, they will chase it like sex crazed maniac chases women. This doesn’t require to much thought as far as most of them are concerned and this is another reason why America gets a bad rap their because they believe that they don’t care and don’t have the best interest of their country at hear, and the left uses it to their tactical advantage. Businessmen of today have very little if any character. As far as the policies, its one thing to place them in, but are they being enacted in the full spirit with what the people believe they should be, or are they being used to serve Lula’s ambitions? Time will tell here, if there are positive results then yes you will be right, but if not then you will be wrong. I simply don’t trust those that seek to keep their power will give up to much of it to reform.

‘his FTAA position is pretty unradical – that the US open up its trade barriers as well as the third world. sure that's anti US, but to the extent that trade negotiations are a zero sum game, its not unreasonable to ask that both parties put something on the table.’

I will agree its unradical inside Brazil, the IMF over the years hasn’t helped in this view either. But the point I wanted to show in this article is that Lula and company are stringing things along so as to delay and at the same time make the U.S. think that he will eventually sign(for what concessions no one knows, maybe he will be clear but I doubt it) when it looks apparent that he really doesn’t want to have anything to do with it(these are tactics that he can employ with those at home as well). The reason is that he is trying to create a trade pact with countries in the southern hemisphere and especially China. This disturbs me greatly. We see growing Chinese influence with Chavez, Panama and a surge of national Chinese over the last 4 to 5 years, China trying to step up relations with Argentina, and God knows who else. The tactics he is employing in the FTAA talks are the same kind of tactics he employs when trying to court those who are his enemy.

‘I think he's attacking the pensions to free up money for the dirt poor. ie, he's doing what we fault the american left for not doing -- taking care of their protected priviledged while not caring for the real poor.’

No matter how you slice this, using state resource to take care or give welfare for the poor whether legitimate as it started out in the U.S., or those that don’t really need it as the system here in the U.S. has decayed to, it is pure socialism in the end. You cannot make anyone happy or satisfied. Everyone will eventually clamor for a free handout by choice or necessity. Brazil has a huge debt because of its socialism, the U.S. has a huge debt growing in good part do to socialism. I guess what I am saying is that once you start on this path it will end only in disaster for the only real reform is not to do it in the first place.

‘an aside, as to the debt, I think brazil can't survive cancelling it, and lula knows that. aside from the damage though, and to the extent that the debt was taken on by dictators, I say it would be as just as cancelling saddam's debt. again, not a very radical position in terms of justice. however here so radical in effect that one can see why it won't be implemented.’

I wouldn’t put it past him to implement this if the time is right, doing it now would definately cause him not to survive as you have stated. But if chaos develops in the country and people demand a solution, anything Lula does will be approved of in the short term, this however will only serve to hurt the country further but will most likely help Lula keep his power given the right tactics employed.

‘you place too much importance on lula's electoral victory. his party doesn't even control the legislature, and he has been several times defeated in the polls by relative newcomers with nowhere near his political organization simply thanks to the power of the business interests. I think these business interests have shown that they are capable of watching out for themselves, and can read their own futures better than those of us here.’

The victory itself gives him and the PT party power but as of yet he hasn’t solidified it. The camels nose is in the tent so to speak. The very fact that he won given the history of the left in Brazil, is a very powerful sign that the people have forgotten too much of their history and have become a bit desperate. Legislatures are a funny animals in that they become easy to divide not to mention how many times in history has the executive branch abolished the legislative branch. Yes some of business community sees the danger that is in Lula and the PT party others are only begging to wake up, and thank God for that. But how long are they going to sit their and yell, cry, and complain before they do what they need to do? The clock is ticking.

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