Muslim Troops' Loyalty a Delicate Question

Washington Post ^ | Nov. 2, 2003 | John Mintz and Gregory L. Vistica

[Alouette]

Just after the 1991 Persian Gulf War against Iraq, huge tents were erected in Saudi Arabia near the barracks of U.S. military personnel. Inside, day and night, Saudi imams sent by their government lectured the GIs about Islam and made aggressive pitches to convert them.

Saudi officials had promised that the discussions would touch only on Arab culture. But within months, about 1,000 soldiers, and perhaps as many as 3,000, converted to Islam -- the largest surge of Muslims ever into the U.S. armed forces.

"It was quite aggressive," said David Peterson, then the military's top chaplain in the region. In retrospect, he said, there was reason for concern that foreign clerics had gained influence over the troops, but military officials were slow to grasp the implications, he said.

[Alouette]

FRmail me to be added or removed from this pro-Israel ping list.

[Semper Paratus]

Since when did loyalty and security become "A Delicate Question"?

[Alouette]

Since when did loyalty and security become "A Delicate Question"?

Ever since political correctness became a dominant factor.

[ApesForEvolution]

What happens if a Christian were to share the good news in Saudi about the one, true living Lord God Almighty?

[Aquinasfan]

A conversation my wife overheard yesterday at the convenience store.

Customer #1 to headscarf-wearing woman: "What's with the scarf?"

Woman: "I can wear what I want. It's my right."

Customer #1: "Things haven't been the same since 9/11."

Husband of woman: "That's your business, not mine."

Doesn't sound like they consider themselves to be Americans, does it?

[TADSLOS]

A black Christian Army chaplain based in this country said some of her fellow soldiers feel "tension" with Muslims in their units, many of whom are also black. "They say, . . . 'Can we really trust them?' "

No.

[tbpiper]

Doesn't sound like they consider themselves to be Americans, does it?

There is a muslim school in my area. Religious schools will generally speak of themselves as being better than public schools. However,the muslim school brochure talks about how much better thier school is than American schools. Provoked a rather strong Spocian eyebrow shift on my part.

[livius]

This article is worth reading in its entirety - thanks for posting.

I can't understand why the military is still so slow to get it. The Guantanamo spy snafu should never have happened, because by this time, they should certainly be much more careful about trusting Muslim employees or even Muslim soldiers. Yet they don't appear to be changing their attitudes at all (remember how it was announced that ALL military chaplains were going to be investigated).

I realize some of the PC nonsense is just for public consumption, but at the same time, I think there may still be a serious lack of comprehension on the part of many in the military.

[antiRepublicrat]

huge tents were erected in Saudi Arabia near the barracks of U.S. military personnel. Inside, day and night, Saudi imams sent by their government lectured the GIs about Islam and made aggressive pitches to convert them.

Biased, paints an untrue picture. The tents, at least in Dharan, were erected in the shopping areas. There was nobody outside pitching, and there was a modest sign on the tent stating something like "Muslim information." Any soldier could go into the tent and ask questions of his own volition, which I did. What I got was nowhere near as preachy as what I see from Christians, more of simply answering questions and quashing many popular Western falsehoods about Islam. When I felt I'd had enough I left with no sense of pressure from them to remain (try breaking yourself away from a Christian proselytizer, it's not easy). I was still nowhere near being a Muslim, but better informed.

I think some Christian chaplain took it personally that people under him converted.

Saudi officials had promised that the discussions would touch only on Arab culture.

Someone is completely clueless. You cannot separate Arab culture from Islam. Trying to understand Arab culture without also understanding Islam would be pointless.

Even so, Eberhart said, "there's no doubt in my mind there's an effort [by al Qaeda and other terrorists] to turn our people."

There have always been efforts by our enemies to turn our troops using any hooks they can get, and our soldiers are regularly trained on how to spot such attempts and to report them. Turning in someone attempting to recruit you is a big feather in your cap.

[Stone Mountain]

A conversation my wife overheard yesterday at the convenience store. Customer #1 to headscarf-wearing woman: "What's with the scarf?" Woman: "I can wear what I want. It's my right." Customer #1: "Things haven't been the same since 9/11." Husband of woman: "That's your business, not mine."

What would you have had the headscarf-wearing woman say?

[tubavil]

Excellent reference on muslim terrorists in the military BUMP.

James Yee.

Ahmad I. Halabi

Ahmed F. Mehalba

Bilal Philips

Abdurahman Alamoudi

Ali Mohamed

Jeffrey Leon Battle

Hasan Akbar

[Alouette]

Customer #1 to headscarf-wearing woman: "What's with the scarf?"

Woman: "I can wear what I want. It's my right."

The woman is right. Would Customer #1 have said the same thing to a Jew wearing a yarmulke, or a Sikh wearing a turban?

[Aquinasfan]

The woman is right. Would Customer #1 have said the same thing to a Jew wearing a yarmulke, or a Sikh wearing a turban?

That's true. But that's not to say that there is any kind of moral equivalency between Judaism and Mohammedanism. Moreover, the woman's statement is ironic because in Mohammedan society Jews and Christians are subject to "dhimini" or second-class status. Believers in other religions may be treated worse.

The question of whether a society like ours can tolerate a religion that doesn't tolerate other religions is no longer an academic question.

[Aquinasfan]

What would you have had the headscarf-wearing woman say?

"I have nothing to do with those extremists"? Don't hold your breath waiting to hear it. One of the doctrines of Mohammedanism is that the world must become Mohammedan, peacefully or at the point of a sword, believe it or not.

[Stone Mountain]

"I have nothing to do with those extremists"?

So when this woman was asked about the headdress she was wearing, she is supposed to immediately reply with a disavowal of "those extremists?" Isn't that asking a bit much? I think a better question is why the customer, appropos of apparently nothing, asked this stranger about her clothing. What concern is it of hers?

[Travis McGee]

Radical Islam is an insane murder cult, "moderate" Islam is its Trojan Horse in the West.

[bereanway]

The entire problem with Islam is their source documents. They're very explicit about the relationship between the House of Islam and the rest of us. If an Islamist takes a literal, fundamentalist approach to these documents there has to be a real tension between the believing and the unbelieving world. There's no glossing over it and we're seeing the effects played out around the world, and more recently a little closer to home.

Europe has major problems in this respect. I hope we're able to keep these problems at arm's length rather than allowing them to fester on our own soil.

[mrustow]

but military officials were slow to grasp the implications, he said.

Bull! They were just to cowardly to act.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Since when did loyalty and security become "A Delicate Question"?

Ever since the traitorous left got away with smearing Joe McCarthy.

[wtc911]

Interesting story but the woman in the scarf was right. This is America, she can wear what she wants, and should be able to do so without being questioned or challenged.

As for her husband's remarks...send him back.

[wtc911]

There are @ 17 muslim Chaplains in the Army. There are three Endorsing Agencies for them. One of the EAs is run by Taha Jabir Al alwani, who has strong ties to the other two. "Dr." Al Alwani is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Fed's case against Al Arian, the terrorist professor from U of South Fla.

EVERY MUSLIM CHAPLAIN in our Armed Forces was trained by and endorsed by an Iraqi who is currently being investigated for multiple terrorist ties.

[Alouette]

The question of whether a society like ours can tolerate a religion that doesn't tolerate other religions is no longer an academic question.

You started by relating an anecdote about a woman wearing an Islamic headscarf. I have no problem with women who voluntarily choose to adopt this mode of dress, anymore than I have a problem with Orthodox Jews wearing yarmulkes or Christian women of some sects who always wear dresses with long sleeves.

It becomes a social problem when women who do not wear burqas are assumed to be "fair game" for roving bands of Mohammedan sex criminals, as we see has become the norm in Australia, Norway and France.

[Aquinasfan]

The thing is that I have a problem with Mohammedans in American society. Logically, it's impossible to tolerate for very long a religion that doesn't tolerate other religions.

[Aquinasfan]

There's no glossing over it and we're seeing the effects played out around the world, and more recently a little closer to home.

Gloss-free bump.

[sheik yerbouty]

He would be arrested and tortured.

[dinok]

Our military allowed this while Christianity was not allowed to be practiced by our troops on Saudi soil. Sickening.

[Jack Black]

I think a better question is why the customer, appropos of apparently nothing, asked this stranger about her clothing. What concern is it of hers?

I've confronted people wearing 'Che' t-shirts and Nazi symbols on their clothes, telling them I think it's idiotic to wear that. If Islam is just another fascist ideology and the headscarf is it's symbol then shouldn't we speak to wearers of that just like we would to people wearing swastikas?

(Of course in part the answer depends on whether you believe in the current good islam / bad islam segmentation that our leaders are supporting) (Did some people think there were "good Nazis" in 1935? Probably not a fair comparison because the Nazis were a monolithic cult with a single charismatic leader. Islam, at this time, is not.)

[Stone Mountain]

I've confronted people wearing 'Che' t-shirts and Nazi symbols on their clothes, telling them I think it's idiotic to wear that. If Islam is just another fascist ideology and the headscarf is it's symbol then shouldn't we speak to wearers of that just like we would to people wearing swastikas?

While I'm not a fan of the Muslim religion at all, I don't believe that all of their adherents are terrorists or terrorist supporters. I certainly don't think a woman wearing a headscarf (which could be cultural as much as religious) should be put into the same category as someone who would wear a swastika.