Posted on 10/17/2003 2:10:36 PM PDT by tomball
I'm pissed about this, and yet not surprised at all.
I've seen people/groups who were in a sort of limbo plenty of times in the military, they get passed around by commanders who don't know what to do with them and don't want to deal with them or are stuck with them for a period of time.
The problem is, the people I've seen in a sort of limbo were healthy airmen, soldiers, sailors, and marines and they would just end up having to occupy themselves for a few weeks or whatever while they waited on orders, transfers, paperwork, etc. They weren't exactly upset about it - some got leave for a few days or week or two, others used the time to study for whatever (distance education, etc.) while others spent the time catching up on their reading at the base library. If they were new to the military, some ended up being temporarily assigned to helping out this or that NCO.
This appears to be completly different. This isn't some airmen or sailor sitting around bored off their butt or running errands for NCOs and officers.
If true, some people need to be held accountable.
No, I dont totally place my faith blindly in anyone
You doubt that he has an agenda but the Army is committing some grave injury here?
I base my belief on my experience, the experience I witnessed my older brother go through when he came back from Vietnam with three brand new AK-47 wounds he recieved from Tet, and from the experiences of others who have been through this process. It isnt just the Army, its all the branches.
Have you researched the reporter at all?
I could personally care less about the reporter. Most are gum smacking Bugs Bunny clones with no personal knowledge of the military at all.
This type of story seems to be right up his alley
You are probably right on that. He may have an agenda. I dont know because I dont know him.
It just doesn't hold up, IMO. I'm sure I could go to the same camp and write the same story he wrote even if the majority of the soldiers there disagreed with the nature of the end story. I'm absolutely certain of it.
I'm not sure how far I'd go in considering this Benjamin character a "friend of the truth". We all have our agendas. He has his.
Yeah, me too. Here I took all those liberal Democrats at their word when they said they hated us, and now they start sending us all this love. I guess we really underestimated these great patriots... urk.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
PS - the author should investigate the conditions of the soldiers who are not on med hold there. Just the same, I reckon. As far as the waste of time... well the one thing the Army has never grasped is that its people's time has value.
Actually I looked around and it is up his alley - he wrote several articles on vaccines and specifically some anti-malaria related drugs, going back a few years (looks like he does a lot of work with medical related issues) and the problems and complications that came with those vaccines.
He's done some investigative work into how and why some soldiers died from sudden illnesses in Iraq and how they may have been related to some vaccines, as well as the Army Special Forces soldiers that killed their wives, and several suspect suicides in Iraq that may have been linked to this anti-malaria drug, Lariam.
There are three Mark Benjamins that pop up right off the bat in searches, one does movies, two are reporters. The one that wrote this story is the one that has done research into the effects of Larium and other vaccines/preventatie drugs and how they maybe impacting those in the military ordered to take them.
It's medical, it's military, it's right up his alley. Nothing wrong with anybody looking into some very suspicious things.
Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sinai, backfilling various crummy jobs the active component wanted out of, and guarding lots of stuff in the USA, including most military installations, which saw their own MPs (if any) sent overseas.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Which part of the article strikes you most? Seriously. This reporter is yanking strings here. He knows those strings are there and he has played an easy game. What about him though...
He really has it in for this Lariam anti-malaria vaccine/drug.
I didn't search to far, but time and again this came out and he was all but linking it to the Army SF soldiers who killed their wives/themselves, to a large number of suicides in Iraq, to problems in Afghanistan, to sudden illnesses among troops in Iraq that are unexplained.
Part of me thinks he must have done a lot of investigation and/or has a lot of evidence, because whoever makes Lariam could take him to court if he goes to much further.
Something that jumped out at me - the FDA ordered that anybody taking the medicine be told of it's side effects. The FDA specifically mentioned "serious psychiatric adverse events", that these events may continue to happen long after the medication is no longer being taken, and that those taking it have reported suicidal tendacies.
The problems are mostly internal... heart, BP off the chart, one guy has a disease of unknown etiology. They are being cared for by TriCare and "real" doctors. The actual military med system is worse shape that I have ever seen... half the doctors on active duty got their med schooling offshore. But that's to be expected; it'ss a socialist system, it would be astonishing if it did work.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
This part is something that struck me, because I had to endure the same exact thing for over 7 months.
"I have loved the Army. I have served the Army faithfully and I have done everything the Army has asked me to do," said Sgt. 1st Class Willie Buckels, a truck master with the 296th Transportation Company. Buckels served in the Army Reserves for 27 years, including Operation Iraqi Freedom and the first Gulf War. "Now my whole idea about the U.S. Army has changed. I am treated like a third-class citizen
This part too. It doesnt matter how much blood, sweat and tears you have given them in the past, when you cant perform your duty anymore, they could care less about you. You become a budget issue, not a soldier who served for 27 years
Most soldiers in medical hold at Fort Stewart stay in rows of rectangular, gray, single-story cinder block barracks without bathrooms or air conditioning. They are dark and sweltering in the southern Georgia heat and humidity. Around 60 soldiers cram in the bunk beds in each barrack.
The barracks I was in when I went through this same process was congressionally investigated at the same time I was there, and several people were later found guilty of wrongdoing for essentially the same things these guys are going through
Soldiers make their way by walking or using crutches through the sandy dirt to a communal bathroom, where they have propped office partitions between otherwise open toilets for privacy. A row of leaky sinks sits on an opposite wall. The latrine smells of urine and is full of bugs, because many windows have no screens. Showering is in a communal, cinder block room. Soldiers say they have to buy their own toilet paper.
If they are on crutches, chances are some have open wounds that are draining ar whatever. Is this sanitary for a trauma wound? How do you keep your wound clean and prevent staph infection?
I guess the rest I just ignored, because I am so used to ignorant reporters with bones to grind being out to slam the military. I focused on things I know from experience to be true. Thats why I took my position.
Hmmm. That's the part of the story that struck me as the most irrelevent. The point is not that these conditions exist. It is that these conditions are not news. This isn't something new. This is how the military operates- you verify this with your own comments and I with mine.
Look, I stated earlier that I ripped out both ACLs in my knees. I was an infantryman. Do you know how long it took for me to get proper medical treatment? 2 years. For two years I ran around with my knees shot. When I cornered hard, the lower half of my legs would keep going in the original direction and I would collapse and shift my legs around until the knees were back in normal position. You know why it took two years? Because it was classed as an elective surgery. Since it was classed as elective, my platoon sergeant had the say-so over it. He said no. Plain and simple. I was deployed twice for a total of one year with my knees in this condition.
That's normal in the military.
Waiting times? Come on.... The military is basically a socialist system. They have limited amounts of doctors. Waiting a month or two for an appointment is not news.
The rest of the article is pure sensationalism. Smelly latrines? Cinder block buildings? Communal toilets/showers. Oh... The inhumanity.
I totally understand your experiences but for the reporter to print this as if it is some new injustice is totally bizarre and ludicrous. Where was the reporter when these conditions existed under Clinton?
There is no conditioning about it - those of us who have been in the military know how we've been treated at times, and several have given very specific examples in this thread.
It's not that the military is deliberately doing it, it's that when you have so many people in such a large and diverse organization doing such varied things around the world, your going to have problems here and there and people are going to be treated lousy. These guys fell through the cracks and somebody doesn't know what to do with them.
I don't know why the reporter has it in for this one particular drug, to be honest, other than maybe he or his bosses think it's going to be a hot potato down the road that can get somebody some awards. Generally they have back this research up, or they can find themselves at the end of a very serious lawsuit.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet that if these soldiers are suffering like the reporter claims, that their suffering is going to end very soon now that this is out and brought to the attention of those above.
If the RA folks are getting the high tech ceramic vests, and I am wearing a 1970 style flak jacket, I might have issues, especially if I take one in the gut.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.