Sick, wounded U.S. troops held in squalor

UPI ^ | Oct. 17, 2003 | MARK BENJAMIN

[illiac]

If this is true, it should be investigated and remedied in a speedy manner.

What bothers me is the lack of sources in the column. I have been and always will be critical of news that does not mention credible sources from which the information was gathered.

Although his ilness/injuries are painful, one or two soldiers does not make enough credible evidence for me to consider it as an authoritative column.

[Prodigal Son]

Hohenfels? Graf? Camp Bedrock? Camp Dobol? I've spent years of my military career in places like this. Years.

What some here fail to realize is even if you are on profile you can still be placed in a training environment. Sure, barracks in garrison had a latrine indoors that smelled like piss. But garrison should not be considered normal life for a soldier.

In FT Benning there are outhouses that have so many black widow spiders and yellow jackets they are a health hazard to use. Military life is not civilian life. Civilians reading about military life and attitudes are often shocked by what they hear because they cannot imagine living like that themselves.

Some people will be affected immediately by the author's slant on things. However, those that take a bit of perspective realize that you knew fellows like this in every company you ever served in. Guys that managed to get a profile to counter every bit of training or PT. Perpetual limp dicks.

I don't doubt some of the soldiers at this "hell-hole" are legitimately injured but what I saw described here was within the bounds of military life- pure and simple. Moving about on crutches? Long waits for appointments? Communal showers/latrines? And? Sounds normal to me.

[MineralMan]

"The conditions in these barracks are deplorable. One entire company in my battalion contracted scabies due to the unsanitary conditions. Those barracks in the National Guard Training Center at Ft. Stewart are an insult to our soldiers.

But then again, I'm just a dumb-@$$ grunt -- what do I know?"

Thanks for the actual report from someone who has been there. Is it just the Guard that has these antiquated facilities, or are they common throughout the base?

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[Prodigal Son]

The conditions in these barracks are deplorable.

Bollocks. I dealt with these kinds of conditions you can deal with it too. The world doesn't get any softer just because current generations of American youth do.

Scabies? And? I've had that myself. The medics gave me a something for it and I drove on with a hard on.

The harshness of training is to prepare you for the even greater harshness of deployment. If you can't take the harshness of training, you will not be able to take the harshness of combat. Harsh training conditions should be considered an asset not an insult.

11 series here for 8 years active.

[MineralMan]

"The harshness of training is to prepare you for the even greater harshness of deployment. If you can't take the harshness of training, you will not be able to take the harshness of combat. Harsh training conditions should be considered an asset not an insult."

Bullhockey. You didn't read the story. These guys aren't there for training. They're back from Iraq, ill or injured. Don't give me that nonsense about how tough you were. We should not be treating ill and injured soldiers who have come back from Iraq that way.

You're welcome to live in a place with an outside latrine. It's OK with me. I'm a little concerned about returning soldiers who apparently need medical assessment and treatment but who _may_ not be getting it. I want some investigation.

I have no doubt that your a tough guy. You don't have to prove anything to me. I don't care what conditions you had. I want better treatment for returning soldiers that what this story _seems_ to indicate.

[Thunder 6]

Most installations have areas like this: Ft. Drum, Ft. Lewis, Ft. Stewart...and it usually there where they dump the RC guys who are on the installation for training. At Ft. Lewis for instance (North Fort) the barracks were built in the 1940's and designed to last for 5 years...they are still in use. There is normally no $$ in an installation's budget to pay for renovating these or even to tear them down. You really have to experience them to believe the conditions we regularly put the RC guys in.
They ARE treated like 2nd class citizens by the Active Component folks...and are routinely categorized as "whiners" whenever they speak up about it.
Sadly, most AC commanders have never spent a day in the RC, or even worked with them...they would never allow their own troops to be treated the way the Guard and Reserve guys are: broken equipment, out of date weapons, protective and communications gear, and derision by the AC units they are assigned to support.
It is a wonder any of them re-enlist.
regards,

[Prodigal Son]

I didn't read the article? Only 40% of these soldiers are from Iraqi deployment. What about the other 60%?

What are there ailments? Do you know? I don't think you do. We have one soldier who complained of side pain and has already gotten a 20% for knees. Without knowing the specifics of each soldier's case, you cannot make a judgement on whether it is justified for each soldier to be housed in these conditions. Plain and simple. Having to trudge on crutches across dirt though is nothing new in the military.

[MineralMan]

"It is a wonder any of them re-enlist.
"

It is, isn't it? Maybe we'll be seeing a drop in the number of Reservists out there after a bit. We seem to be relying heavily on them in Iraq, but not giving them the support they deserve.

Since Bush says that we're going to be relying on Reservists a lot in the future, I guess we'd better set about making their life a lot closer to the AC.

[Prodigal Son]

Mosley said he was healthy before the war; he could run two miles in 17 minutes at 48 years old.

I'll put it to you like this: this might be considered a good time in the civilian world but he was practically walking in the military world.

[Leisler]

"...has just managed to get a 20% for... Knee problems."

Every straight leg, and especially Airborne, has knee problems after a few years.

[been_lurking]

I want more information here.

Read the byline (UPI) that satisfied my hunger for additional information.

All of the first hand accounts in the story don't even touch on the serious accusations being made by editorial comment. Most of the first hand accounts describe the military medical system as I have known it for the past 30 years. Priority was always given to active duty, then activated reserve, then reserve, then Guard, then retirees on a space available basis.

To those of us who know the military medical system, there is nothing in this article that even stands out as unusual.

Having said all that, I would still much rather have a military medic in time of war than a participating Blue Cross/Blue Shield HMO provider.

[contessa machiaveli]

well, we should all thank allah that at least no one is allowing the prisoners at gitmo to be treated humanely.

[MineralMan]

"What are there ailments? Do you know? I don't think you do. "

Neither do you, yet you've decided they're whiners. I want this INVESTIGATED. You want them to just shut up. Which of us do you suppose is supporting our troops?

Neither of us knows what the situation actually is. Let's find out, OK?

[been_lurking]

P.S. Note that the article does not mention one combat related injury or affliction.

[Prodigal Son]

Oh I have knee problems. My point was- his complaint was a side pain.

[2banana]

Hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait -- sometimes for months -- to see doctors.

This is your life under socialized medicine - Any questions?

[Prodigal Son]

Neither do you, yet you've decided they're whiners.

Oh, I haven't decided they're whiners- or limp dicks. I'm simply saying the conditions as described in this article are not as bad as the "journalist" makes them out to be. I am quite certain (and have stated as much) that some of these soldiers are legitimate injuries.

[Prodigal Son]

I would like to note in reference to this particular post on my part- at his age group, 17 minutes is quite a respectable time. He would get a score of 80 on that portion of the APFT.

[Pilsner]

Camp Swift in Texas has the cinder block and communal shower motif. Except for the fact that the cinder blocks are unpainted it is very much like my college dorm.