New regulations in 2024 may leave some RVs without built-in generators

Rv Travel ^ | January 17, 2023 | Russ and Tiña De Maris

[fireman15]

You gotta love it when some idiot wants to run their open frame generator all night.

When the power is out in our neighborhood, basically everyone runs their generators all night. They vary greatly in loudness, but our houses are far enough apart that it is not much of an issue... If you come home from an outing and it is quiet, you know that the power is back on. Most people have gas furnaces that could probably use an inverter and a couple of golf cart batteries to keep them going overnight, and I have confirmed that the setup in our van is capable of keeping our gas furnace running. I don't know anyone who does that in our neighborhood. Most people's furnaces are sized so that it takes quite a while to get their houses warm again in the winter if their heat has been off all night.

Inverter generators are much quieter, more efficient and you can hook them together so they can sync, but they cost several times as much and their ability to start an electric motor is typically not nearly as great.

[ETCM]

I don’t mind loud generators when the power is out in the neighborhood. It’s when I’m up in the mountains, enjoying peace and quiet in the wilderness. Fortunately most campers that use portable generators seem to have inverter units now, and even those are typically shut off by 10 or 11 at night.

[cymbeline]

“Their actions indicate to me that at the current time a gas furnace is considerably cheaper to purchase use and maintain.”

That’s true unless you need mostly air conditioning and a bit of heat on the cooler days.

It’s not “if the government subsidizes”. It’s “if all of taxpayers subsidize”.

We burned a bunch of yard waste over the weekend. I saw the trees and bushes smiling!

[fireman15]

It's when I'm up in the mountains, enjoying peace and quiet in the wilderness.

I understand. We don't have a small generator for our camper van, just solar cells, batteries and an inverter. We of course can charge the deep cycle batteries with the alternator if they get too low to run stuff we want in the morning. But usually that just happens while we are driving from place to place. Oddly enough our neighborhood has 1 acre lots and tall fir trees, so it feels like we live in a campground only less crowded. I didn't mention in this thread that our neighborhood has a runway that we can see from our front windows so in the summer many types of aircraft break the quiet.

[fireman15]

That's true unless you need mostly air conditioning and a bit of heat on the cooler days.

In this part of the state we need heat about 8 months out of the year and barely any air conditioning. Currently in the middle of April we have been having low temperatures in the 30s and highs in the 40s. It has been cooler than usual this year. Our electric and gas bill for March was over $400. Our next door neighbors replaced their furnace with a heat pump and so far they say that it hasn't saved them any money. Their bills for electricity have been higher than our bill for gas and electricity; our house is larger and we have open beam ceilings and skylights.

Now when their power goes out they no longer have the ability to keep their house warm except with their wood stove which no longer meets our county's pollution requirements. The stove does not do a very good job anyway since their house is still around 3000 sq ft. and they do not keep a good supply of dry firewood. They have been talking about getting a much larger generator so they can use their heat pump.

[BBB333]

“Washington has been banning the extension of natural gas to new neighborhoods...”

---

Our lot is less than 4 miles from downtown Main Street. The 55 lot subdivision was platted, engineered and began being sold in ‘78.

We have only phone (1.5 MB DSL — very slow so no-one uses it) and electricity. Everyone has propane and most have buried propane tanks...

We don’t need cable because of satellite TV providers.

I DO understand not too many states allow underground propane tanks. I wonder if WA would not allow propane tanks?

[ProtectOurFreedom]

“…we would not have any spark-ignited products available for sale in California by January 1, 2024.”

So back to Glow Plugs or diesel?

[ProtectOurFreedom]

The state of Oregon just solicited bids for a big natural gas powered emergency backup generator (100 kW) for the governor’s mansion.

[CJ Wolf]

Data centers have fields of diesel ones.

[Scrambler Bob]

Most places in Eastern Washington are a different story. Natural gas is not as available, the price of electricity is less and it gets hot in the summer regularly.
= = =

Eastern Washington residents used to be very close to Hydro dams.

And the power was cheap.

Until CA and others wanted to poach it.

[fireman15]

Eastern Washington residents used to be very close to Hydro dams.

And the power was cheap.

There are still parts of Eastern Washington that have very inexpensive electric rates. My relatives in Eastern Washington are paying less than 3 cents per KWH. Some places are cheaper than that.

https://www.chelanpud.org/my-pud-services/rates-and-policies

https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/washington/east-wenatchee/

[fireman15]

Eastern Washington residents used to be very close to Hydro dams.

And the power was cheap.

Sorry forgot to italicize your words.

[Drago]

I wouldn’t rely on the info. in your 2nd link (”electricitylocal”)...it is 100% off for California rates. (The 1st link is OK for WA rates).

[steve86]

Currently 11¢/kWh here (Richland — has own power utility). And natural gas lines run on most city streets.

[fireman15]

I wouldn't rely on the info. in your 2nd link (”electricitylocal”)...it is 100% off for California rates.

The information from www.electricitylocal.com seems very accurate for places where rate plans are decipherable and the utilities are posting this information. California has a “special” (as in mentally challenged) situation when it comes to revealing power costs in any form.

Look at this link from PG&E, California's primary electric power provider...

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/how-rates-work/find-my-best-rate-plan.page

It is a friggin’ joke. If you are not already being victimized by these criminals you can't tell what they are going to charge. You can't see the rate plans if you don't have an account and can sign in... not even for “one time” use. How can any business or individual considering a move to California figure out what electricity is going to cost them?

(The caps in the following are because I am cutting and pasting) They want your "ACCOUNT NUMBER (Enter a valid 11-digit account number (e.g., 1234567890-2)), LAST 4 DIGITS OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, and your METER NUMBER". Or they have a less restrictive alternative where you just need to provide your "LAST NAME, ZIP CODE OF SERVICE ADDRESS, LAST 4 DIGITS OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, and your METER NUMBER."

It is very difficult for outsiders to find out what the actual power rates in California are. This is by design, and yes, they have thwarted www.electricitylocal.com which I am sure is doing their best to provide information to consumers.

My wife still wants to move to the foothills of Northern California to be near her sister, but electric rates along with mismanaged forestry practices and the political system keep me from having any desire to do so. But Washington is not far behind so I hope to move to a red state somewhere away from this leftist madness as soon as possible.

[fireman15]

Currently 11¢/kWh here (Richland — has own power utility). And natural gas lines run on most city streets.

It looks like ElectricityLocal.com has got it wrong for you too. Richland is likely getting power from the Bonneville Power Administration for less than a tenth of what they are charging you and marking the prices up in what is actually a hidden tax and has nothing to do with their actual expenses. We should all get used to the new West Coast reality where consumers get screwed for energy to help fund woke government policies.

You do realize that Governor Dimsley and the Democrats have added an additional 67 cents to the price of a gallon of gasoline just since the first of the year. This is why people in Alabama are paying less than $3 a gallon for gasoline, I just paid $4.45 a gallon yesterday.

https://www.gasbuddy.com/gasprices/alabama

[Drago]

Yeah. PG&E got wrecked by the CA legislators/CPUC back in the Gov. “Gray-Out” Davis days...”AB1890” deregulation, “...we are from the govt. and we are here to help”...yeah right, ENRON, PG&E bankruptcy #1, etc...and the PG&E Board of Directors based in SF didn’t push back against that or the “Green” initiatives. CA power deregulation left PG&E w/o about 85% of their generation...only left with hydro and Diablo Canyon nuclear. That bankruptcy/deregulation led to poor maintenance which led to PG&E caused wildfires that caused bankruptcy #2, and on & on.

My elderly Mom lives in the N. Calif. foothills above Lodi (Calaveras Co. ) and is constantly being bothered by PG&E tree inspection contractors, tree trimmers, 3rd party line maintenance workers (from out of state, etc.). Because of bankruptcy #2 they don’t care about throwing $$ out there now and the CPUC allows them to raise electric rates radically lately to compensate.

Current PG&E rates are a “2-tier” system based on usage and are currently at $0.32050 per kWh and $0.42516 per kWh. Link below for full details:

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf

[Drago]

Not to mention this utility rate proposal caused by recent legislation:

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4145990/posts

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4146228/posts

[steve86]

Several City of Richland pages show $ 0.0741/kWh so I do t know. Not sure where I got the 11¢.

[fireman15]

Not sure where I got the 11¢.

You probably did something crazy like looking at your bill for $220 for 2000 kwh of electricity and did a little calculating. You might not have read the fine print showing that the bill actually breaks down to $148.20 for metered usage and has $51.80 in other charges, fees and taxes that you are forced to pay.

It is not unlike my family's cell phone plan which was advertised as $20 a month per phone for unlimited usage but comes to $115 a month for four phones. Around $10 a month is for actual taxes the other $25 is for fees that the cell company charges but doesn't include in their advertising. You know the thing... the cell phone exec big guy kickback fee.