Posted on 02/08/2023 10:12:23 AM PST by Jamestown1630
If they don’t remember it, how do they know it happened?
I had dreams as a very young child that are like real memories to me now - but I know they were dreams.
I am not an advocate of psychedelics, but if knowledge/information is what I think it is then there are many different ways to get there.
Terence had many very creative and brilliant ideas, decades ahead of his time.
He was one of his thinkers (Philip K. Dick is another one that comes to mind) who was wildly creative. The way to judge such a person is not whether they were “right” or “wrong” but whether they get you to look at the world through a new, different and interesting lens that may set you on your own path of discovery.
By that criteria McKenna was a superstar.
One of thing the UFOs teach us (if we are willing to learn) is that our hard and fast categories of reality, dreams, memory, death etc. are oversimplifications of the way the world works.
Humans have some base assumptions which are drilled into them by our current culture—so basic we often don’t even realize they are there.
When you start digging deeply into the UFO world you start to run into these things—and start to ask a lot of questions—”How do I know this is true?” “Is there any way it could be wrong?”
If you don’t have a certain grounding in a solid ‘reality’ on which to stand, you can wind up very loopy - like some of the ‘experiencers’ we’ve discussed have apparently have done.
This is why I enjoy and learn a lot from Vallee. He has always remained very grounded and scientifically minded, even while questioning.
John Keel is the goat. RIP.
dude... just let it play in a tab in the background and listen to it ya don’t have to watch it
“There are lots of pictures.”
I went through the video and saw no pictures.
I’ll be lazy and ask you to say a little more about the physical trace issues.
I’m not a UFO denier.
I couldn’t pay attention. I’m a reader.
“Science” can be a minefield—because it is not designed to study conscious entities that like to play games....
The key to understanding this stuff (imho) will be linguistics and psychology.
I think Vallee understood that.
He collected lots and lots of data—and when none of it made any sense he accepted that instead of jumping to conclusions.
There is an anecdote about Africa that is applicable here.
The story goes that Christian missionaries wanted to help some poor folks in Africa get clean drinking water.
They raised some money and then went into a village and built some wells.
A year later they returned to see how things were progressing.
The locals covered up all the wells are refused to use them—and refused to explain why.
Eventually the missionaries learned from nearby villages what was going on...
You see—the tribe had a ritual for the water collection. It was the job of the children to take buckets for the long walk to the nearest creek—it took about an hour for the arduous round trip.
That hour was the most important hour of the day for the adults.
That is when they had sex!
When studying the “alien” you need to be ready for the unexpected secrets.
;-)
I mean that there have been many photos of claimed ‘ufo’ sightings over the decades. Again, I don’t think a lot of pictures because I can’t assess them. But there are people who have specialized in analyzing them. Many years ago I talked to a man at what was then the Naval Surface Warfare facility that used to be here in White Oak, MD. (Can’t recall his name now - Bruce somebody) - but I think he was involved in photo analysis.
Regarding trace evidence, in the video, Vallee goes a little bit into materials he has had analyzed.
This website has links to a lot of information about trace cases, including one that discuss Ted Phillips’ work (links to photos there, too):
http://ufoevidence.org/topics/PhysicalTraceCases.htm
Dr. Bruce Maccabee
if you want transcripts, click on the three dots “...” on any youtube video and one of the options is transcript
“The key to understanding this stuff (imho) will be linguistics and psychology”
Vallee goes into this a little in the video - he makes the point that on the average University campus, the Engineering department will be at one far end of campus, and Psychology/Sociology at the far other end - and they never really get together.
I think it will take everything to understand, hard AND behavioral sciences; and we need to ‘de-silo’ our systems of knowledge organization (for more reasons than this).
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of interest in doing that - or in UFOs! - in academia, despite a lot of ‘interdisciplinary’ talk.
At least not yet...
(Interestingly though, he says that the accounts of people who seem obviously sincere tend to be very, very similar across countries, cultures, religions and languages. And he says that children make very good observers because they tend to have very few preconceived notions, compared with adults.)
Yes! I called him up one day just to get the opinion of someone I knew to be interested and also a scientist. He seemed very impressed that I had read so much about the topic, and anxious to know if I’d ever seen anything myself.
The next thing I knew there was a huge bundle in the mail, an enormous computer printout about UFO accounts, info., etc., the size of a telephone book. It was compiled by a now defunct UFO organization that used to be located here.
Thank you, I have seen the three dots before but not on this video. Perhaps the mobile player doesn’t have them? Not even when in full screen. Numerous other controls visible.
Many people who come to them with fuzzy thoughts about how they might have been abducted start to recall over time all that has happened to them. It is traumatic.
Though they can't establish in every case that parents and grandparents were also abducted (because some parents et al are dead at the time), they have been able to put together patterns that demonstrate that it is profoundly generational.
They did use hypnosis (mostly to relax their patients to improve recall) but they learned to establish careful protocols so as to not influence any recall.
Though Mack and Hopkins are now dead and Jacobs is retired, for the most part, their work has been recorded in many videos, papers, and books. MIT hosted (not sponsored, hosted) a symposium on UFOs and the abduction experience where scientists and researchers presented over 118 papers on the subject. Here are some links (they are well worth examination...and there are many other sources than the ones listed below):
Alien Discussions: Proceedings of the Abduction Study Conference Held at M.I.T. Cambridge, Ma. Textbook Binding – January 1, 1995You don't need to buy the books to read the reviews and comments. I have read them all--the books that is--and they are quite good if scary as hell.Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind Hardcover – January 1, 1995 by C D B Bryan
Final Note: No one knows what the hell we are dealing with here but it isn't insanity. It is hard to draw any absolute conclusions.
Not mentioned above are the accounts of Dr. John Mack of Harvard. His accounts are actually the best. As an aside, Mack's tenure as a professor of psychiatry was challenged by the Harvard Medical School, the faculty of which he was a tenured member. They tore his work and career apart looking for anything they could use to recall his tenure. They failed. They could only conclude that he performed his work in a professional even laudable manner.
I don’t trust hypnosis. And memory can be steered by clever suggestions, even unconsciously made.
I don’t think Budd Hopkins was at all qualified to be doing what he was doing. Jacobs doesn’t appear to have any background in psychology or psychiatry either.
Mack seemed to be the more grounded of the three.
Which demonstrates what a number of Christians have said about the whole UFO and “alien” phenomenon: these creatures are demons and they are out to steal, kill, and destroy.
The points you raise are why the MIT symposium was so important. The entire process of working with abductees was examined and explored.
Hopkins has done miraculous work despite not being a psychiatrist and so did Jacobs, who learned from Hopkins. Mack came into the field of work through Hopkins and completely approved of the work Hopkins was doing.
We are lucky anyone wanted to do this work. Mack showed what would happen to anyone from the medical field if they wanted to get involved in abductions.
If you read the accounts of all and listen to the videos of the MIT symposium, you will learn that the work carried out by Mack, Hopkins, and Jacobs is stellar. They aren't perfect, but they are brave pioneers by anyone's standards.
BTW, as a former NYer and art lover, I think I can say that Hopkins' art career--he was an artist of significant repute--was basically destroyed by being connected to this kind of work. I think some of his paintings still hang in the MOMA. He believe it was important enough to make that sacrifice. Leslie Kean of the NY Times and elsewhere was his best friend in his later years. She is also held in great regard by people who know of her work. She was basically Budd's caregiver as he was dying of cancer.
That is a point well-worth remembering. These beings have shown themselves to be tricksters at best, liars at worst.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.