Posted on 03/08/2022 8:10:58 AM PST by chuckee
> I am sure Europe would be all over Zelensky’s case to take the deal. They don’t want their energy supply to be jeopardized. <
It’s a bad deal in that it gives Putin everything he really wanted in the first place. And so his aggression will be rewarded. But I think you’re right with your comment above.
In a way, it’s like the 1938 Munich agreement that gave Hitler the Sudetenland. “Peace in our time.” (I’m roughly comparing agreements here. But I’m not comparing Putin to Hitler. Not yet, anyway).
“And some people here thing this is reasonable. Disgusting.”
It is reasonable, considering the circumstances. Mistakes were made by the United States and the EU and NATO and Ukraine.
Do you prefer giving up your way of life, completely, over Ukraine? That is what Western Civilization is facing.
That means he's a puppet. The US Deep state wants this war in Ukraine to control Germany, tighten up NATO, control EU energy, and of course, cause trouble for Russia. Zelensky will ensure it carries on.
Seems like a poison pill offer. Russia doesn’t care what the Ukrainian constitution says. They know they can always change their constitution and join NATO. He wants a supersize Belarus that can be controlled.
Putin will be dead of cancer in 2 years if not sooner.
He will also not get Odessa. And he won’t get the land bridge to the Crimea that he wanted.
No new territory for Putin after all this and his military has been exposed.
Zelensky will take the deal because he and Ukraine will live much longer than Putin will.
The only thing left to be negotiated is security guarantees. I think Russia’s proposal is that Ukraine only gets to keep 20,000 - 30,000 troops after the war which is not acceptable.
Also, Putin would install a puppet Prime Minister in Ukraine and Zelensky would have a title of Honorary President or something like that.
The meeting in Turkey between Russia and Ukraine foreign ministers on Thursday will be telling.
When all is said and done, Putin is the loser, not Ukraine.
Why are they not unreasonable?
Cease military action? It was Russia that initiated the conflict
Change the Constitution? Do as I say or I’ll kill you. Is Russia recognizing a state of war, hot or cold, between it and NATO? Because that’s what neutrality means.
Admit Crimea is Russian. This is doable as Crimea since it was taken from the Ottomans has been Russian.
Recognize the Eastern oblasts as independent states? The recognize Ariz, Tx, NM, Cali as either independent Spanish speaking states or as part of Mexico. Only difference is Mexico does not have the power to achieve it.
You are correct. Just a few days ago you would often see “not my circus, not my monkeys” as a reply to indicate someone’s concern over this Russian Ukraine war. That is not true anymore. With all of us Americans paying four dollars and five dollars per gallon, we are all directly involved.
EU nations have it even worse. It’s time for the US and NATO forces to step back and leave Ukraine the hell alone.
Take The Deal
...Admit Crimea is Russian. This is doable as Crimea since it was taken from the Ottomans has been Russian.....”
The fact that Stalin moved out many of the original ihabintats - for example the Tartars. Replaced them with Russians helps in that claim.
I think since the fall of the USSR there has been some efforts by ethnic Tartars to return.
It was Russia that initiated the conflict
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Untrue. The US and NATO forces aggressively pushed Putin into defending Mother Russia.
Giving up large chunks of their country? Reasonable?
+++++
It looks reasonable to me. The alternative is to violently give up very large chunks of your population. And ultimately the whole of Ukraine.
I would take the deal.
“So in-effect accept my takeover of large chunks of your Country while ensuring you remain weak and without allies so I can come back later for the rest.?”
Yup. It’s called buying time. Moral outrage, although commendable, does not generate survival. What it does is make one feel good about oneself for 2 minutes before the point of destruction. See post 11
#2 Stop the Babylon Bee from making fun of us
#3 Would like more KFC franchises
#4 Want Disney to build a theme park
You believe in advancement of Russian goals is ever reasonable?
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Well yes. Yes I do. If you contrast the goals of Obama, Biden, Soros, Schwab and other New World Order elitists versus the goals of Putin who only wants to protect and defend his nationalist interests: then yeah. I support Russian goals every time.
And naturally this is not to say that I agree with every tactic Putin has made here, but I certainly and obviously disagree with the Obama Biden policies that are provoking this war.
You are psychotic. These are the same arguments used by virtually every totalitarian regime to conquer states that want nothing to do with them. Look at China with Tibet, Taiwan. Your “civil war” nonsense is simply retarded and repulsive.
If Ukraine does not accept these terms, considering their current position in this conflict, then we know things are not what they seem or what the mainstream media has been pushing on us. I dare anyone to show me a more generous condition for peace from a conquering power in the history books.
Ukraine won’t be giving up any large chunks of anything.
Putin already has Crimea.
He’s only asking for recognition of the Russian controlled parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. Not new territory.
He won’t get his land bridge to Crimea.
He won’t get his crown jewel Odesess.
He will be dead of cancer in 2 years or less.
Not a victory at all.
And any no-NATO deal can be re-negotiated after Putin is dead.
That be nice if the conspiracy theories regarding Ukraine and Soros wasn’t a bunch of invented horse shit, and if “righteous” Putin wasn’t literally a top leader of an evil totalitarian axis that includes its allies China, Iran, North Korea, etc.
Seems I’ve heard these issues before.
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