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A chat about student loans for Freepers with secondary education.
Curiosity ^ | 12/18/18 | Baynative

Posted on 12/18/2018 10:35:06 AM PST by Baynative

I am curious about the growing conversation over the repayment or forgiveness of the $1.3 TRILLION (and growing) student loan debt.

Like everyone I knew who didn't have full scholarship, I worked my way through college and I don't remember ever meeting anyone who had a student loan.

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TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: biged; business; college; deadbeatgeneration; deadbeats; debt; generationz; loans; millennial; millennials; studentloans
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I always assumed that the need for financial help was pretty much limited to med students. Am I wrong?

I wonder if it was just my social circle or if this trend towards a relaxing trouble free ride through college is a more recent phenomenon.

1 posted on 12/18/2018 10:35:06 AM PST by Baynative
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To: Baynative

I graduated college in 1983. Worked and paid my own way. Owed no one a dime. Likewise, didn’t know anyone going on student loans.


2 posted on 12/18/2018 10:38:23 AM PST by IamConservative (I was nervous like the third chimp in line for the Ark after rain had started falling.)
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To: Baynative

I think much of it depends when you went to college. When I went (early 1970s), tuition at my school was around $600 per semester. I could handle that cost by working in the summer.

Now it’s over $9000 per semester.


3 posted on 12/18/2018 10:40:15 AM PST by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: Baynative

Cost of University education has nearly tripled relative to the economy. That holds true whether you’re looking at Transportation, housing, food, Etc. Paying for bloated professor salaries and the so-called research University status.

Look at the cost of going to a decent University in 1978, and then look at the same University today. Back then it was literally possible to do it on a pay-as-you-go system.
Today $30,000 University per annum is commonplace, 50,000 is not very rare. So to pay their way through school on a pay-as-you-go basis, a student would need some 50 or $60,000 a year job to pay the tuition, and live.
Of course, there are educational Alternatives out there. But I would easily say 80% of American universities are priced so high that it’s not possible for somebody out of high school to Simply obtain a job and do it on a pay-as-you-go basis.

The biggest driver of this increase of cost is making student loan debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, and the federal government taking over all student loans. This ensured that the universities could charge anything they wanted, the banks could loan it out knowing it could not be discharged in bankruptcy, so there is no Force out there that exerts a downward pressure on prices. Universities have no incentive to do so, and thanks incur no risk for making these loans tell the girls studying lesbian basket weaving who will emerge to find no jobs waiting.

The way to fix it is for the federal government to get out of the Federal Loan guarantee in business and turn those over to the private sector. And make them dischargeable in a bankruptcy. Then free market lenders would only give loans to people who had a reasonable chance to pay them back with the degree they were getting, and universities would need to lower prices to attract students willing to take on those loans.


4 posted on 12/18/2018 10:43:12 AM PST by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: Baynative

One of my kids recently completed his Bachelors Degree. He had some good scholarships and we loaned him some. He took out a small amount of student debt, about $15,000.

As an Aerospace Engineer, his college job and his current job pay very well, so the debt won’t be onerous. He should have it all paid off within a few more months.

But when he talked to the finance office at school, it was all about how much you qualify for, nothing was said about should you take it.

I heard a guy on Dave Ramsey’s show the other day. He had about $150K in debt for some weird sounding degree that had few jobs and those only paid $35K a year max.

Ramsey was clearly biting his tongue wondering why someone would take out such deep debt for no chance at ever repaying it.

The guy was painting houses because there was nothing close to his field.

Last year I was talking to another friend, an engineer about his kids and college. He was totally ignorant and said his kids could borrow all they wanted because the payoff was interest free. I explained that there are two types, both at 5-6%. One accrues interest the day you cash the check, the other accrues a couple months after you graduate. He had no idea.

The whole thing is a scam. I firmly believe that unless you have a specific path in a hard science field, college is a net loss. One of my kids went into a trade. The others are working full time and slowly finishing their degrees at online schools, which are quite affordable, but you don’t get the vaunted “college experience.” That’s another topic.


5 posted on 12/18/2018 10:46:02 AM PST by cyclotic ( Democrats must be politically eviscerated, disemboweled and demolished.)
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To: Baynative

When this particular pile of printed, Fed.gov backed, printed Federal Reserve currency debt collapses, you will find A LOT of fraud, just like in housing.

Kids going to America’s top 100 universities are not in massive debt, or if they have a lot of debt, they are not defaulting on it.

This debt will be revealed to be supporting a lot of phony schools, a lot of really bad schools, non-existent degrees, a lot of welfare for America’s urban underclass, and a lot of fraud and criminals.


6 posted on 12/18/2018 10:46:19 AM PST by PGR88
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To: IamConservative

Graduated in 83. No offense but you are a dinosaur. I am too I graduated in 88. However the world we went to school in just doesn’t exist anymore. Easy credit and a couple decades have drastically changed the landscape. Tuition has skyrocketed everywhere. Saying you debt free in 83 is like saying you use to buy gas for 50 cents a gallon. Those days are gone forever.

Students used to be able to work their way through college when college was a couple grand per semester. Tuition nowadays is 20 grand and up to 60 grand a year ( undergraduate NOT not graduate school). Part time jobs cannot cover that. Hell full time jobs for kids won’t cover that and allow them time to go to school.

It’s a completely different world now. It’s silly to use 3 1/2 decades old cost to compare.


7 posted on 12/18/2018 10:46:38 AM PST by 1malumprohibitum
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To: Baynative

My older sister (2 years older graduated HS in ‘83), younger sister, and both brothers all had some level of student loans. Compared to today’s standard it was much less and didn’t have the same bite (% of income) once they graduated.

My daughters don’t have any - because I’m paying (expectation is they pay back 50% without interest - my wife will see to that as I watch the garden grow), BUT all their fellow students have loans out the whazooo and many spend it on things above and beyond tuition, books, and housing.

From what I can tell very few have part time jobs and the loans will be taking a big bite of their pay when/if they graduate. I typically pay fresh engineers 50-60k/year depending on the company size and their degree level/internships.

My hires have told me that their loans typically take about 10-15% of their earnings ($500-700/month). Money that should be getting put aside for a down payment on a home. From what they have said there are some that have taken even more out than they have and spent it on partying.


8 posted on 12/18/2018 10:46:44 AM PST by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary that good men do nothing)
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To: Leaning Right

Exactly. I went to a good University in the 70s and paid tuition similar to what you do. My daughter went to a good state University, and not a particularly expensive one (Texas Tech) there were times that 2 or 3 school books for her cost more than my entire semester at a good University in the 70s


9 posted on 12/18/2018 10:47:17 AM PST by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: Baynative

i paid my loans back.

that used to be expected, understood, required, normal human behavior

if things are changed and people don’t have to repay money that other folks entrust, lend to them.........
please so advise.....
so I can rush down to the local Corvette dealer, PRONTO!


10 posted on 12/18/2018 10:48:34 AM PST by faithhopecharity (COrr)
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To: Baynative

Government sponsored student loans started soon after Sputnik. Interest rates were always quite high, so it was an advantage to pay off the debt as soon as possible.


11 posted on 12/18/2018 10:49:04 AM PST by Western Phil
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To: Baynative

People sometimes forget how much inflation has occurred. When I went to a good private college in the early 70s, the cost was a little over $5000 a year.

The latest issue of the alumni magazine points out that would be $20,000 in today’s dollars, so maybe it wasn’t so cheap as we remember. Of course, they charge much more than $20,000 nowadays, but at least the dormitories no long resemble the barracks at Camp Swampy.


12 posted on 12/18/2018 10:50:00 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: Leaning Right

I think much of it depends when you went to college. When I went (early 1970s), tuition at my school was around $600 per semester. I could handle that cost by working in the summer.

Now it’s over $9000 per semester.

><

You’re right. I went to college on the GI bill and worked part time jobs in the 1970’s. No need for a student loan.


13 posted on 12/18/2018 10:50:03 AM PST by laplata (The Left/Progressives have diseased minds.)
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To: Baynative

Price vs reward.

I am in cyber security, my BS which I am finishing will likely cost me $30K. Another $30 to $40 K to complete my Masters. With that degree and certifications, I can reasonably expect a salary in the $200 to $250 K range.

So a 2 to 4 year payoff for me.


14 posted on 12/18/2018 10:52:50 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Leaning Right

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=600.00&year1=197901&year2=201811


15 posted on 12/18/2018 10:53:00 AM PST by Red Badger (We are headed for a Civil War. It won't be nice like the last one....................)
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To: Baynative

These days folks use their student loans to live on. They don’t work. They take Minimum loads. It’s really a shell game by colleges to raise tuition costs


16 posted on 12/18/2018 10:53:53 AM PST by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: cyclotic

> Ramsey was clearly biting his tongue wondering why someone would take out such deep debt for no chance at ever repaying it. <

At least some of that is the fault of the college.

When I first started college (many, many moons ago), I picked a social science major. And the department gave me a brochure telling me all the great things I could do with that degree. I’d be on easy street!

But after about a year in, I talked to a few recent graduates. None of them had a decent job. Not even one. So I switched to a science major, and things worked out.

Bottom line: The social science department deliberately deceived me. Yeah, I should have done my own due diligence. So I’ll take some of the blame for that lost year. But not all of it.


17 posted on 12/18/2018 10:54:58 AM PST by Leaning Right (I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.)
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To: Leaning Right

Depends on where you live. Not everyone should go to college. More people need to take advantage of state schools with first two years living at home and going to a jc


18 posted on 12/18/2018 10:55:28 AM PST by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: Baynative

When the government became involved universities were no longer required to make education affordable to the average user. They were unfettered to charge whatever they could get. Rapidly, students couldn’t make enough to work their way through and pay their education bills. Thus, education loans became common.

When government redid the rules for pension funding, they redid them for themselves as well. Thus, federal pensions, instead of being paid from the general fund, had to demonstrate where the funding would come from. Raising taxes would have been impossible. So, they decided to fund the pensions from student debt, which averaged $50,000 over 30 years. To do that they had to pass a law making it impossible for a bankruptcy judge to ever forgive that debt. Prior to that law student loans for that course on underwater basket weaving and gender studies were forgive before cars or houses. Now, it’s the opposite.


19 posted on 12/18/2018 10:55:53 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Baynative

Went to college in the late 70s, early 80s. Managed to pay for the first few years, but then the recession hit and summer jobs were scarce for college kids. My parents had divorced while I was a freshman in high school, and I received very little financial support from them (low-middle class family). I did end up with a loan balance upon graduation, but it was paid off in less than two years.


20 posted on 12/18/2018 10:56:54 AM PST by CatOwner
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