Grant's Overland Campaign

[Michael.SF.]

Thanks. It is that time of year though so not unexpected. Hope all is well for you.

[arrogantsob]

Yeah, I saw him. He is from Greenville, MS just down the road from my SE Arkansas hometown. He was also one of the most handsome men I have ever seen. Hollywood star looks.

[donaldo]

Thank you for this.

[donaldo]

While on the topic of pardons and magnanimity perhaps Grant followed Washington’s precedent. Washington’s first presidential pardon was for participants in the Whiskey Rebellion:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/first-presidential-pardon-pitted-hamilton-against-george-washington-180964659/

It strikes me as odd how people today vilify Lee and other Confederates when Lincoln and Grant wanted to let them up easy.

Some of you may find the following interesting. Herein late historian Forrest McDonald is referring to New England Yankees, not the Western Yankees from the Midwest.

https://phillysoc.org/forrest-mcdonald-1985-why-yankees-wont-and-cant-leave-the-south-alone/

[x]

And Grant's successes as President after the war was nothing to write home about. Truth be known though the problems associated with his presidency were not of his doing.

He trusted the wrong people. In terms of policy, though, he was better than some of our other presidents. Grant's reputation as president has risen in recent years.

[Michael.SF.]

I agree. Grant’s Presidency was underated, just as his battlefield strategies were over rated (IMHO). Yes, his ultimate success in the CW belie that opinion.

[x]

Grant lost more troops than Lee, and this gave him the reputation of a butcher, but he had a larger source and lost a smaller percentage of his troops than Lee.

Lee faced some really awful Union commanders in some of his battles, but when he was more evenly matched his losses as a share of his forces could be larger than those of his opponent.

To win, Lee would have had to follow an entirely different strategy -- something more like guerilla warfare -- but the Confederate government was already committed to holding territory and repelling assaults against Richmond, so maybe his hands were tied.

[central_va]

Southern session was not unconstitutional and NOBODY seriously thought it was treason.

[rockrr]

I disagree. When the south made war on the north in their misguided quest to preserve their Peculiar Institution, they cast the die that became an inevitability.

[rockrr]

mcdonald is/was a fool.

[DoodleDawg]

Just finishing up Ron Chernow’s biography of Grant.
Honestly a hard book to put down.

Very good, but I think Chernow spent too much time dwelling on allegations of Grant's drinking.

[DoodleDawg]

Lee’s critical mistake was going north to Gettysburg instead of standing on the defensive in Virginia and sending Longstreet West to help Johnson stop Grant. By July 4th 1863 the war was lost for the Confederacy.

Lee went north in 1863 in no small part to prevent his army from being split and part sent west in a futile effort to save Vicksburg.

[DoodleDawg]

Secession wasn’t treason. Armed rebellion was, and they were certainly guilty of that.

[Tallguy]

I agree with you. Splitting up the ANV in the hopes of creating a pickup Army to what? Go at the Army of the Cumberland. George Thomas was running a corps in that Army and would eventually command it. He was a tough nut. As Chickamauga, Missionary Ridge, Nashville & Franklin would later prove.

It might have worked, but at the time it would have looked like a long-shot.

[BroJoeK]

central_va quoting Salmon Chase:

Here are the problems:

1. Chase was a Democrat then running for the Democrat nomination for President.
   
2. Naturally Northern Democrats did not want to hang their Southern Democrat allies, rather they wanted Southern votes!
   
3. Like Democrats of the time & later, Chase here confuses the question by claiming "secession is not rebellion".
   No, but rebellion is rebellion and waging war against the United States is defined as treason by the Constitution.
   
4. Oh, but they weren't citizens so it can't be treason, they say.
   Maybe, but Confederates put Southern Unionists in jail or forced them to fight & die for the Confederate cause, how just was that?

Bottom line: Lincoln, Grant, Chase & others were correct to treat former Confederates as leniently as possible, especially as they ratified the 13th, 14th & 15th amendments.
But they left us much to debate even 150+ years later!

[Ouchthatonehurt]

I would agree with that.

[jmacusa]

Secession is one thing General. Armed rebellion against a duly elected government is another.