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Marines Working with the Army on 5.56mm Rifle Round Replacement
Military.com ^ | 11 Apr, 2018 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 04/12/2018 6:35:08 PM PDT by MtnClimber

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. -- A senior Marine Corps official confirmed today that the service is lockstep with the Army's effort to search for a rifle round more potent than the current 5.56mm round.

For months, senior Army officials have been telling Congress that the current 5.56mm Enhanced Performance Round is not potent enough to penetrate enemy body armor plates similar to U.S. military-issue rifle plates such as the Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert, or ESAPI.

As a solution, the Army is experimenting with a plan to replace its M249 squad automatic weapon and M4 carbine with futuristic weapons that fire a 6.5mm case-telescoped round or something that falls between a 5.56mm and a 7.62mm round.

The Marine Corps, which recently decided to buy more M27 5.56mm Infantry Automatic Rifles, has not publically echoed the Army's concern with 5.56mm until now.

"We are working the Army; we have looked at the 6.5mm Creedmoor with the Army and [Special Operations Command]," Brig. Gen. Joseph Shrader, commander of Marine Corps Systems Command, told Military.com at the annual Sea-Air-Space exposition Wednesday.

"We are lockstep with them looking at a new round."

Shrader, however, said he did not know if the effort would mean a new infantry weapon for the Marine Corps.

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: ammo; banglist; marines; rifle; usmc
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To: MtnClimber

How many weapons in the current inventory have been used since the beginning of the WOT? Would it be cheaper to refurbish those older M4’s and SAW’s and convert them at the same time, or just build replacements in a 6.5 because the old weapons are too worn out?


41 posted on 04/12/2018 8:58:20 PM PDT by yawningotter
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To: MtnClimber
Defense contractor Textron just unveiled a new rifle at the Modern Day Marine conference. Designed to use so-called "telescoped" ammunition, the new rifle promises a harder-hitting, lighter bullet for America's ground troops to fire. Whether the U.S. military is ready to embrace all the change a new rifle and ammunition would bring remains to be seen.

Traditional bullet cartridges have a bullet seated roughly halfway inside a brass shell casing, with gunpowder inside the casing. By contrast, the new rifle uses a 6.5-millimeter polymer-cased telescoped bullet. Telescoped rounds feature a bullet completely encased in a polymer shell, like a shotgun, with gunpowder surrounding the bullet in the shell.

Textron claims the new 6.5-millimeter round has 300 percent more energy than the standard U.S. Army bullet, the M855A1.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a23094/this-experimental-army-rifle-uses-telescoped-ammunition/

42 posted on 04/12/2018 9:13:01 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Mueller, Obama, Hillary and Holder each made millions selling US uranium to Putin.)
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To: MtnClimber

If they went with a .243 all they would have to do is switch barrels on a 7.62.

And use some of the newer propellants to achieve higher velocity


43 posted on 04/12/2018 9:14:16 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: MtnClimber

Been thinking the same thing.


44 posted on 04/12/2018 9:19:08 PM PDT by DarthVader ("The biggeest misconception on Free Republic is that the Deep State is invulnerable")
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To: I got the rope

Wanna buy my Wazer Wifle?

https://youtu.be/idjM3Jrp4Yw


45 posted on 04/12/2018 9:37:19 PM PDT by MrEdd (Caveat Emptor)
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To: .44 Special

Or they could have more PT and make the troops strong enough to carry 7.62 again.


46 posted on 04/12/2018 9:40:36 PM PDT by MrEdd (Caveat Emptor)
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To: niteowl77

“Heck, I have tried to find the “one gun” solution all my life, and I can’t do it even with my limited set of parameters.”

I have put thought and practice into the 1-gun solution as well. So much so that the criteria has boiled down to the an old west approach. The mission statement would reflect that like the “old west constraint” of 1 rifle, 1 pistol, 1 shotgun, plus the added carriage requirement of the trio being close at hand at all times. Boil it all down, distill it and abra-cadabrah - the magic trio would reveal itself... bottom line - it didn’t happen, unless the equation included geographical and situational constraints as well.


47 posted on 04/13/2018 1:20:31 AM PDT by Clutch Martin (Hot sauce aside, every culture has its pancakes, just as every culture has its noodle.)
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To: Sgt_Schultze

You can buy one on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=star+trek+phaser&_sop=16


48 posted on 04/13/2018 1:20:57 AM PDT by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: Clutch Martin

I’m with you. I don’t believe there a 1 and done solution when it comes to rifle calibers, but we can get close. In Vietnam I carried the standard M-16, lightweight, fast and could carry allot of ammo without having to carry allot of weight. It worked very well for the conditions and terrain we were in.
For the last 20 years I’ve been doing deer and hog hunts for Vets here on the ranch and like any other hunt the campfire conversation can get deep. These boys were fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan where conditions and terrain were much different. The distance at which these battles took place was extended and instead of having to shoot through elephant grass and dense foliage they spent a majority of their time trying to shoot through doors windows and walls. Allot of complaints about the 5.56’s inability to penetrate even the simplest of dirt/adobe style walls. The older M-14 was brought into play with units far more than I was aware of but that required a much heavier, longer weapon and limiting the amount of ammo. The 7.62 had the brute power to punch holes through walls.

The general agreement by most was a rifle built off the AR-15 style rifle but In a larger caliber that could still stay in the Mag restrictions of the AR-15 design thus keep overall size and weight down. The 6.5 Grendel has been brought up many times, too many to ignore. The 120 grain FMJBT gives you 2700 fps with almost 2,000 ft-lbs of energy. Now that’s for a 24 inch barrel and these numbers will change with reduced barrel lengths. When we compare it to the 5.56x45 NATO we see a 62 grain FMJBT at 2830 ft/s with 1,325 ft-lbs from a 20 inch barrel. The 5,56 gives up allot of horsepower to the Grendel. The only downsize from this conversion is a lower Mag capacity and about a 30 percent increase in felt recoil. This leaves them with a weapon far superior in both downrange ballistic’s and enough energy to punch through most walls.


49 posted on 04/13/2018 3:23:18 AM PDT by Dusty Road (")
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To: .44 Special; All
Yours is one of the best posts on the thread, so I'll ask your opinion on this. Given that the AR is a direct impingement platform, and assuming that at least some of these options have a larger powder capacity, does that possibly impact the functioning of that system, perhaps causing more fouling, more frequent cleaning, etc?

Your thoughts?

50 posted on 04/13/2018 5:15:46 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (Three most annoying words on the internet - "Watch the Video")
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To: Dusty Road

I have been hunting for several years using the 6.5x47 Lapua out of my Rem700.

So I picked the 6.5Grendel for my first AR. I chose the 24in barrel. I have been using 130gr Bergers in my Lapua and will be using the same bullet weight in the Grendel.

I do not feel that the somewhat lower velocity from the Grendel will be an issue for hunting.

I see that the Army has been experimenting with the 6.5USA. It appears to be a knockoff of the Lapua.


51 posted on 04/13/2018 6:22:25 AM PDT by Elderberry
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To: MtnClimber

52 posted on 04/13/2018 7:44:56 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: MtnClimber

The Creedmor also gives you more distance than the M-4.


53 posted on 04/13/2018 8:00:10 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: MtnClimber

54 posted on 04/14/2018 4:02:27 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought
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To: Hardastarboard
Given that the AR is a direct impingement platform, and assuming that at least some of these options have a larger powder capacity, does that possibly impact the functioning of that system, perhaps causing more fouling, more frequent cleaning, etc?

Armalite used the DI gas system design on the AR-10 first, with few changes made when scaling it down to the 5.56. Remember that only a small portion of the combustion gases are diverted to operate the action; only so much is going to flow through that drilled gas port - barrel length probably has a bigger impact on it than case capacity.

Naturally, gunpowder formulation *is* something that designers must be careful with when dealing with the DI design.

55 posted on 04/14/2018 8:21:57 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Progressives are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: Charles Martel
When you say it that way - duh. Of course - now I get it. It's not how much powder gets burned, but how much gas overall gets diverted. That would be dependent upon the port size, and I assume the overall size of the gas tube.

Thanks for answering my question.

56 posted on 04/14/2018 9:57:53 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (Three most annoying words on the internet - "Watch the Video")
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“Weight limits what the soldiers can carry”

Yes it does, but anyone who has observed how the “Christmas Tree” effect comes into play with Infantry understands that statement is kind of a red herring. 30-06 will reach out and touch someone, and turns cover into concealment. And it’s certainly not an “either or” prospect, I wish .gov organizations would get beyond that.


57 posted on 04/14/2018 11:43:33 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Clutch Martin

You mis-spelled .357/.38


58 posted on 04/14/2018 11:45:16 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

You are thinking of soldiers actually carefully aiming their shots. During battle few actually aim. It’s more about the volume of fire than aimed shots.


59 posted on 04/14/2018 8:19:25 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Conservatives love America for what it is. Liberals hate America for the same reason.)
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To: Freedom4US

“You mis-spelled .357/.38”

A favorite.


60 posted on 04/15/2018 6:04:36 AM PDT by Clutch Martin (Hot sauce aside, every culture has its pancakes, just as every culture has its noodle.)
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