Soon as the weather cleared up.
Posted on 02/20/2018 8:42:56 PM PST by Pinkbell
Well, young people not being acquainted with them is part of the problem. As to your experience, I can certainly see being startled by the volume; though the kick I expect would only be from it either actually being something else, or completely not being set for it in combination with being startled.
There are examples on YouTube of small 7-8 year olds doing just fine with them. Properly shown how to fire a rifle, I find it difficult to believe you’d have any recoil issue. The semi-automatic action reduces the recoil dramatically.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttMuvmspa8o
While there are reportedly about 8 million actual AR-15s (a brand name), there are probably closer to 100 or so million rifles by other manufacturers which are essentially the same in regards the firing mechanism.
It might surprise you that the Founders actually did wide-ranging studies on firearms and firearm policies before concluding that what was the Swiss Model at the time, should be a part the Bill of Rights.
Semi-autos have been available for well over a hundred years. John Kasich’s dad would have delivered one right to your door, no questions asked.
Soon as the weather cleared up.
Thank you for that explanation.
Thank you for explaining... so you’re saying it would be impossible then to set guidelines for mental illness that would prevent patients from getting guns because even an antidepressant prescription would disqualify a person?
Thank you for responding......but no I’m not involved with the school system.
Well I am sensitive about this issue and it’s personal, but even so I’m attempting to understand gun ownership in light of the debate about it.....and considering my lack of understanding about firearms isn’t helping so I appreciate those who have posted just what these rifles are.
When my sons announced they’d be looking forward to when they were old enough to drive we explained to them that though they would be of ‘legal age’ to do so this would not be unless they had become responsible about other areas of responsibility.... They needed to show they could be responsible. So I would expect the same regarding ownership of guns.
The year we’re discussing is 1776 not 1976.
Yes, I recently read about how detailed the founders were and their arguments at that time. It was interesting reading and showed me that this issue of gun ownership has long been debated beyond what I had understood the depths of.
no not impossible, however- when the left say ‘sensible gun control laws- they don’t mean it- they mean getting a toe in the door so they can push for further and further draconian restrictions- Sure, we could have a law that states that ONLY convicted mentally ill people can’t have guns, or even people with aq designation of ‘definitely a threat to society’
However, the left will not5 stop there- they won’t rest until everyone who has ever taken an SSRI is barred from owning guns- and people with ptsd, and any designated mental health issue- Give them one inch and they WILL take aq mile-
We already have ‘sensible gun control laws’ that prohibit certain individuals from obtaining guns- and as you can see- that isn’t enough for the left- they want us to becoem a polcie state where everyone snitches on each other and reports everything so that those being reported are eventually barred from owning guns. It’s already bad enough where spouses report their significant others out of retaliation and gt them barred from ever4 owning a gun again- all it takes is a false testimony and the person becomes a felon or barred from gun ownership as a ‘possible threat to society’
It’s a very slippery slope
[[but even so I’m attempting to understand gun ownership in light of the debate about it]]
“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined...”
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
“To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787
“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
“...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone...”
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783
“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803
“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.”
- Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789
“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787
“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
“[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding-fathers
Another idea being floated by members of the Trump administration and close allies: increasing the number of armed teachers and stationing retired law-enforcement officers at schools.
Get the facts at any cost. Trump will not let us down.
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
Eh - replace public liberty with public school. And I’m not sure about the exact meaning Henry was getting at, but the idea of “everyone who is able might have a gun” - but that is the idea behind allowing teachers and coaches to have guns. Not all of them need to be armed - but they MIGHT be armed.
“I’m attempting to understand gun ownership in light of the debate about it”
Be careful. In my exhalted opinion there are those on every side who don’t know what they are talking about in all aspects of the debate. Look below the surface.
Seems to me there are many reasons people want to own particular guns, some innocent, some not so innocent.
“They needed to show they could be responsible. So I would expect the same regarding ownership of guns.”
In times past, in some places, teaching children about the use and care of guns was a means of teaching responsibility.
“... even people with aq designation of ‘definitely a threat to society...”
Which would include many posters on this forum because we are definitely a threat to the society they want.
I agree.....even so I need to understand the debate in order to counter those who oppose guns.... This thread and those who have spoken out have shared fair and reasonable reasons why the Right to Bear Arms needs to stand tall....I needed to hear this from people I trust.
Thank you so very much for posting that. I have copied and will keep as a great reference. Thank you again....an awesome read!
My pleasure.
Guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.
I have personally seen people (some young adults) with severe issues able to function and lead normal lives—which would not otherwise be possible without a managed pharma program..
That is one company, one drug, and sadly I am sure there are others. Sad that there is abuse of the system by sketchy doctors and pharma reps, but I still think it is unreasonable to put blame for shootings at the front door of pharma companies. Doctors and parents of these kids take some responsibility.
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