Absolutely!
Posted on 08/07/2017 10:03:35 PM PDT by TBP
The nursery in Amy Fabbrini and Eric Ziegler's home is filled with unread children's books and unworn baby clothes. A Winnie the Pooh blanket lies untouched inside a crib where a child has never slept.
For nearly four years, the Redmond couple has been fighting to prove to the state of Oregon that they are intellectually capable of raising their children. The Department of Human Services has removed both of their boys, saying the parents are too mentally limited to be good parents.
Fabbrini, 31, and Ziegler, 38, lost custody of their older son, Christopher, shortly after he was born. Five months ago, the state took their second child, newborn Hunter, directly from the hospital. Both are now in foster care.
(Excerpt) Read more at oregonlive.com ...
The details of the case are very disturbing for anyone who love liberty, free individuals, and the family.
It shouldn’t be.
The only thing that should is harm to the child.
Not “what if’s.”
Only direct, intentional harm or recklessness.
Funny, if they let the Boys live as Girls, play with dolls and wear dresses, the Parents would be hailed as Progressive Heroes.
Just what I was going to post. Haven’t “seen” you in awhile. Hope all is well!
If this premise is true, that the parents are too intellectually compromised to make good parents, wouldn’t that have come up before? Are engaged couples still required to be checked by a doctor before getting a marriage license?
This situation was often avoided in the past by parents getting their severely handicapped children sterilized while very young. Nowadays, that is not so easily done without the patient’s acknowledgement and consent.
I think the state made the right decision. The children have rights also, and they would suffer terribly as they grew older with their parents less and less capable of making good decisions for them, or understanding them or the environment they are in. The state has a duty to protect all of its citizens, especially children. This is not so much a case of parental rights but of childrens’ rights. Of course, the parents should be allowed to be in their childrens’ lives as much as possible, but adults capable of understanding and making good decisions for the children should be in charge. Putting these children in a safe environment where they can grow and flourish, and stretch intellectually is not totalitarian or fascist.
Doctors never had the right to prevent people from marrying. Blood tests were done to ensure that neither of the couple to be wed had untreated venereal disease. Women should see a gynecologist before marrying but this is not a requirement, just a good idea. The state cannot forbid anyone from getting married (unless they are close relatives) or prevent a couple from having children. However, the state has the right to remove children from a bad environment. And it certainly would be very bad for children to grow up in an environment where both parents are profoundly limited intellectually. Parents do not own their children and there are limits on parental rights. Please rethink this, this is not fascist, dictatorial, or totalitarian. What has been done here is what a responsible society needs to do. Of course, the feelings of the parents must be considered, of course the parents should be involved as much as they are able but they are NOT able to properly raise children, they cannot give them the intellectual stimulation they need from birth, or provide the kind of supervision and counsel they will need as they grown up.
where they can grow and flourish? The best interest of the child argument is the slippery slope that has caused fathers to lose their parental rights over and over in divorce.
That argument was also used for Charlie Gard in the UK.
If the state has concerns they could just as easily do checkups to the parents. But alas, like everything else, the appetite for ever increasing state authority knows no limits.
Absolutely!
“Where’s my Mama?”
“According to documents provided by the couple, psychological evaluations tested Fabbrini’s IQ at about 72, placing her in the “extremely low to borderline range of intelligence,” and Ziegler’s about 66, placing him in the “mild range of intellectual disability.” The average IQ is between 90 and 110.”.
If the average IQ is 90, let’s say, that means half of the population, or thereabouts, is below that. So there are probably millions of parents with similar IQs.
Also, the average IQ of most muslim countries is in the 70s, yet the state loves bringing those muzzie morons in.
Infuriating.
I suspicion these two may even show more attention and care to their children than many “normal” parents do...because their main focus would be on their kids...
I agree with your statements.
I wish that CPS could have first offered parental assistance,
someone coming by X # of times a day for the first few months of child’s life, changing to X# of times a month as the baby got bigger. Maybe such help was rejected by the parents. That we haven’t been told.
[[The children have rights also, and they would suffer terribly as they grew older with their parents less and less capable of making good decisions for them,]]
“Less and Less Capable”? They don’t lose IQ as they grow older and the kids would be out of the home in 18 or so years well before the parents were old anyways-
[[Over several in-person and phone interviews with The Oregonian/OregonLive, they seemed like capable and caring adults – frustrated and confused by the state’s intervention, but no more so than any parent would be in their situation.]]
Seems to me that normal non state folks think they are capable- and also from the article it seems that child welfare was lyign about the couple in an effort to make it seem like the father was unfit- saying he ‘almost rolled over on the child’? Really? What parent hasn’t done the same with their child lying in bed with them? What degree was the4 ‘almost’? 1/2 roll? 1/8’th roll? 3/.4 roll? Fact is it didn’t happen- but they used it as ‘evidence’ to take the child away?
The father and mother have been living together awhile now, taking care of themselves just fine- so i disagree that htis is not a parent’s rights case- it most definitely is
“Research literature has found that the IQ really doesn’t correlate with parenting until the IQ is below 50,”
Well, the left has to lay the groundwork to strip conservatives of their rights, don’t they? Just like the Soviets sent dissidents to mental health camps, first the left will target innocent low IQ (while overlooking vicious low IQ) and then suggest anyone with a Christian faith or conservative values is backward and unfit and intellectually incapable to raise children.
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