Posted on 02/18/2016 1:17:56 PM PST by RKBA Democrat
I saw a post earlier today noting that FR Catholics had not yet weighed in on the comments of Pope Francis on the border wall proposed by Donald Trump. Well, be patient. We'll get around to it....
I guess I should start this with a little bit on the relationship between the Pope and Catholics. Many non-Carholics seem to have this idea that Catholics have some sort of vatican-phones on our belts, where we get called to rally to the Pope's aid. Sorry. That's just not the way it works. While the Pope deserves deference and respect, his views outside the strictly religious realm are not necessarily accorded any special meaning with Catholics, beyond the deference given to any religious leader. The same goes for the Pope's views on culinary choices, music, travel, or art. While I should and will give his views on religious matters great weight, I frankly don't much care what he has to say in the political realm. And on borders, he might as well be the President of Mexico for all I care.
Second, I think it's important to look at what was actually said. People have a tendency to read a whole lot into quotes that aren't there. So let's take a look:
Francis started out by saying,
"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian." Asked specifically about Trump, Pope Francis said, "I say only that "This man is not Christian if he has said things like that," Francis said. "We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt."
I'm not seeing what the big deal is. What words were in reference to Donald Trump were heavily hedged, and more allegorical than anything. We all know that the Pope's politics are very left and as I explained, on issues of politics, Catholics have no special responsibility to follow those views. And I don't.
What I do find interesting about the Popes words was the analogy about building bridges versus walls. And I think in a strictlly allegorical sense, he's right. We should be building bridges. And I should also note that while I'm a strong supporter of Donald Trump, the border wall in my view is not one of his better ideas. I'm at best a lukewarm supporter of the wall on both practical as well as strategic grounds.
In a practical sense, I don't see that a wall gets you that much. In some heavily populated areas, sure, you need a wall. But if you're not willing to enforce immigration laws, what good does it do you? So the illegals fly in versus driving in. Not exactly a victory. There is something to be said for a wall as a symbol of political resolve, but again unless we show the political will to enforce immigration laws, then a wall is just an expensive boondoggle.
From a strategic perspective I think a wall fights yesterday's war. I'll be delighted if immigration is curbed. Further, I think it's absolutely necessary in order to make America Great Again. But I also think it's ignoring the underlying problem: we have several failed states south of our southern border. And people who are living in those failed states are only doing what's logical in bugging out and trying to better their lives. Sooner or later, we're going to be forced to deal with that issue.
We've tried all sorts of things: aid, allowing people to move here, etc. None of these contemporary and oh so politically correct methods of dealing with failed states have worked. It's time we went back to the time tested method for dealing with failed states: annexation.
Great post.
So basically you don’t want a wall either. Tell your pope to stay out of our politics.
Wow! You must work for Obama!
The Pope should stay clear of politics and economics. He obviously does not know anything about either.
El popo is a political activist, not a religious leader.
I’m sorry but I don’t compartmentalize my assessments of religious leaders like you do.
If my pastor were to preach a solid understanding of the Word while also promoting socialism he’d be fired. His knowledge of the Bible could very well be admirable but his promotion of socialism, a philosophy that is at dire odds against the faithful, would be grounds for dismissal.
To me a Catholic leader who advances an economic system that has brought his own country to ruin time and again is someone of deeply questionable judgment. He does not deserve respect, he deserves scrutiny and he deserves a devout effort to oust him and replace him with a man of faith whose entire life is a reflection of his faith.
I should also mention, you’re about to be flamed mightily. But as a recovering Catholic, I know you welcome it. :)
I disagree with your strategy on immigration, but your thoughtful consideration of the matter and explanation of papal reverence was a nice break from most threads. Until the frothy comments, of course.
Cruz is my guy . Trump is my number two.
Go to mass every Sunday with wife and four kids.
This Pope could be an anti Pope. Think we have had them before in the 15th and 16th Centuries.
It makes it tough to want to go to mass with this clown. Trump is 100% correct on this one. Pope has NO right to judge which of our protestant brothers are Christian or not.
And socialism is EVIL. It promotes covetous behavior and THEFT.
Also, The Pope is encouraging the break of the family by encouraging Mexican immigration. As a practical matter, it means the father leaves the family.
If the Pope had real guts, he would admonish the MEXICAN government to reform and use capitalism to keep mexicans in Mexico.
First of all, this Pope is nothing but a tool of the UN and the left.
As for immigration, a lot of Latin American countries were pretty insulted by the things he said. Most of the people crossing the border now are (a) not from Mexico and (b) not even from Latin America. There are thousands of Middle Easterners and Asians being smuggled every day by the drug gangs and Marxist terrorist organizations such as FARC, which make a lot of money from people smuggling.
Mexico actually fights against this, but its LE and governmental structures are so weak in so many areas - not to mention our lack of support under Obama for Mexico’s anti-drug activities, the one area in which Mexico has appealed for help - that there’s not much it can do.
Maybe the Pope should have called out Castro (many illegals pass through Cuba), FARC and the drug gangs. But that might take a bit of knowledge of the situation, a bit of courage and a bit of humility, all of which are unknown to this crazy man in the Vatican.
Sorry. That defense doesn’t fly. His demeanor and public statements when he was with Obama, the most vile supporter and advocate of abortion ever to be President, was unmistakably friendly and non critical. Also he allowed himself to be feted at a white House reception that was purposely packed with abortion advocates, gays, transgenders and advocates of homosexual marriage. Then and since he has not said a word. This Pope if he had concerns about Trump’s religiosity should have counselled him in private. The Pope is demonstrating that he is a man without honor.
Trump DID say that and I say it too. Build the damn wall and keep the invaders out. Trying to play Francis' apologist and spin doctor on FR is sad.
He’s simply the leader of the Cult of Mary.
You cannot believe the idolatry of those kind of “churches”.
:: his promotion of socialism, a philosophy that is at dire odds against the faithful ::
Could it be that such a Pastor wants his parish to be run as socialist...with him charge?
Food for thought.
No. Re-read what I said: I’m a lukewarm supporter. A wall is not a panacea. Without the will to enforce our borders, people will go around it anyway. And it will be useless. And long term it isn’t going to fix the problem of a failed Mexican state.
Nope. A student of history. Or are you arguing that the annexation of New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado etc. was a bad idea?
California though...you might have a point :-)
Agreed. He did do something good, though. Unified conservatives.
Pope Marxist needs to look in his own back yard. He doesn’t speak for me and I am really tired of the Catholic Church bringing in all sorts of “refugees”. The Catholic Church has been doing it for years. RE: Somalis anyone?
This one is the worst. He needs to minister and get out of politics. He is an example of why we have the separation of church and state.
We are trying to save our country, he should concentrate on saving souls.
Maybe your Catholic but the Pope is not the WORD of GOD.
He is a mortal person not an entity or any thing special to God.
Than I or any Christian
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