America Has Less Poverty Than Sweden

Forbes ^ | 9/10/2012 | Tim Worstall

[SeekAndFind]

This might seem very surprising indeed but it could be said that the United States actually has less poverty than Sweden. I know this isn’t the story you’re used to hearing but bear with me.

Given that elections are looming it must be time for the Economic Policy Institute to release their State of Working America report. Just before an election is of course exactly the right time to release impartial figures on how everyone is doing. Which is what makes this chart of theirs so interesting:

This is not calculating poverty by the usual US method. This is using an internationally comparable method and it is the portion of the population living on less than 50% of median income for that country. This chart shows it both for market incomes and also for post taxes and post transfers incomes.

If you look closely you will see that 26.3% of the US population is in poverty using market incomes. In Sweden it is 26.7%: therefore we can indeed say that the US has less poverty than Sweden. If we wanted to be contrary and not look at what people actually want to know which is how much poverty is there after all the things we do to alleviate poverty.

Clearly, from the figures above, there is much more relative poverty in the US, poverty as it is actually lived, than there is in Sweden. For Sweden does much more to reduce poverty.

However, I’m not entirely convinced that that is actually true. I’m a little hampered by the fact that the EPI don’t explain exactly which figures they are using from the OECD to create this chart. So I’m going to have to make an assumption.

We get a slightly different chart but the same number from the EPI here.

[SeekAndFind]

A three year old article but still applicable today.

Relative poverty rate in the United States and selected OECD countries, late 2000s

Note: The relative poverty rate is defined here as the share of individuals living in households with income below half of household-size-adjusted median income. Poverty rates are based on income after taxes and transfers.
Source: Authors' analysis of Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development Stat Extracts (data group labelled "late 2000s")

Earnings at the 10th percentile in selected OECD countries relative to the United States, late 2000s

Note: Earnings is generally defined as gross earnings (wages prior to tax deductions or adjustments) for full-time, full-year workers.
Source: Authors' analysis of Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's Distribution of Gross Earnings metadata (data group labelled "late 2000s")

[A CA Guy]

Don’t count illegals and we are really doing good.

[litehaus]

Swedes have MALMO....We have DEARBORNISTAN !

And Malmo is worse !

[I want the USA back]

Taking money from those who earn it and giving it to those who put their hands out to take it doesn’t help anyone. That leads to more people coming into the country and putting their hands out for money.

[justlurking]

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can 26% of the population be earning less than the median income?

The median is the sample literally "in the middle". 50% of the other samples will be less, and 50% of the samples will be more.

Perhaps they meant "mean", or more specifically: the "arithmetic mean". Most people call this the "average".

An example: given the numbers 1,2,10,11,12,

The median is 11.
The mean is 7.2.

[rrrod]

Sweden and Holland are gonners. The rest of euroscum to follow. Mussies rape at will there.

But as we all know the euros are so enlightened and sophisticated.........

[Gay State Conservative]

I've done some traveling in my day..traveling to First World *and* Third World countries.I've also traveled widely in *this* country.For example,I spent about a week in East Africa last year,including a stay in one of Africa's biggest cites,Nairobi.

As a result I can say from personal experience that Americans don't have the first friggin' clue what *real* poverty is.

[buwaya]

26% are at less than HALF the median income. That was the standard used. Not the median income.
I don’t agree that this is a very useful metric, but thats what they are using.

[justlurking]

I see the problem: their threshold is 50% of the median income, not the median income. Reading comprehension failure on my part.

Putting it into real numbers: the median household income in the US was $51,939 in 2013. So, 50% of that would be $25,970.

The US HHS doesn't have a single number: it varies by family size. In 2015, the closest to the "poverty level" above is $24,250 for a family of 4, in the continental US (AL and HI are higher).

[justlurking]

26% are at less than HALF the median income. That was the standard used. Not the median income.

Thanks, I realized that shortly after I posted. You replied while I was composing a follow-up with some real numbers for comparison.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: Sweden and Holland are gonners.

Holland still has courageous men like Geert Wilders (and his party). I’m not sure who Sweden has...

[Hugin]

This is not calculating poverty by the usual US method. This is using an internationally comparable method and it is the portion of the population living on less than 50% of median income for that country. This chart shows it both for market incomes and also for post taxes and post transfers incomes.

That's not measuring poverty at all. You could make a million dollars a year and be "poor" if you live in a country of billionaires. "Relative poverty" is meaningless.

[Boogieman]

It’s 26% who are earning less than half of the median income.

[Boogieman]

“That’s not measuring poverty at all.”

I think every measure of “poverty” is relative like that. What does the word even mean if it isn’t a comparison with your neighbors?

[rrrod]

Hollands mussie population is overtaking the Dutch.

[mountainbunny]

My dad is gone now, but he’d tell you that he grew up without indoor water, no central heat, no “food security”, never enough clothes for a child, few toys, etc.

He’d also tell you that he was poor, but not impoverished.

Poverty is relative.

[dfwgator]

There are no poor in this country.

You want poor, go to Haiti.

[Svartalfiar]

That's not measuring poverty at all. You could make a million dollars a year and be "poor" if you live in a country of billionaires. "Relative poverty" is meaningless.

And depending on the value of your dollar/cost of living, a millionaire could be poor there as well. Look at Zimbabwe. A quick Google search shows three eggs costing $100B (Zimbabwe). A better measure of poverty would likely include a lack of sanitary living quarters, access to clean water, basic neccesities. Most people living in poverty in the US own a big screen TV and a cell phone. That's not poverty in any way.



From the link at bottom, this is from 2010:

The following are facts about persons defined as “poor” by the Census Bureau as taken from various government reports:
- 80 percent of poor households have air conditioning. In 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
- Nearly three-fourths have a car or truck, and 31 percent have two or more cars or trucks.
- More than half of poor families with children have a video game system, such as an Xbox or PlayStation.
- One-third have a wide-screen plasma or LCD TV.
- One-fourth have a digital video recorder system, such as a TiVo.
- 83 percent of poor families reported having enough food to eat.
- Only 9.5 percent of the poor live in mobile homes or trailers, 49.5 percent live in separate single-family houses or townhouses, and 40 percent live in apartments.
- The average poor American has more living space than the typical non-poor person in Sweden, France, or the United Kingdom.

Of course, poor Americans do not live in the lap of luxury. The poor clearly struggle to make ends meet, but they are generally struggling to pay for cable TV, air conditioning, and a car, as well as for food on the table

Understanding Poverty in the United States: Surprising Facts About America's Poor

[litehaus]

Think the WoodenShoes got a better chance than the Swedes-—Says this Swede...

[SunkenCiv]

Sweden has a better leader than we do right now. Of course, that's not much of a claim.