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Was Einstein wrong all along? Controversial theory suggests the speed of light is SLOWER...
dailymail.co.uk ^ | : 06:57 EST, 27 June 2014 | Ellie Zolfagharifard

Posted on 06/28/2014 12:14:35 PM PDT by BenLurkin

The University of Maryland physicist believes the delay could have been because the light was in fact slowed as it travelled due to something known as 'vacuum polarisation'.

During this phenomenon, photons break down to something known as ‘positrons’ and electrons for a split second. before combining together again.

When they split, quantum mechanics creates a gravitational potential between the pair of ‘virtual’ particles.

Dr Franson argues that the process might have a gradual impact on the speed of the photon, meaning that over 168,000 light years, the photons may have suffered a near five-hour delay.

If the physicist is correct, it means scientists have to recalculate everything from our distance to the sun to some of the most distant objects seen in other galaxies.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Science
KEYWORDS: freakstate; haltonarp; kludge; speedoflight; stringtheory; vacuumpolarisation
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1 posted on 06/28/2014 12:14:35 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: BenLurkin

Placing my bet on the old patent clerk.


2 posted on 06/28/2014 12:16:09 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: BenLurkin

You can go faster than the speed of light. The fact light can’t catch up with the speed of matter is not my problem.


3 posted on 06/28/2014 12:18:12 PM PDT by Eddie01 (Liberals lie about everything all the time.)
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To: BenLurkin
Full title:

Was Einstein wrong all along? Controversial theory suggests the speed of light is SLOWER than we think


4 posted on 06/28/2014 12:26:25 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: SpaceBar

Same here.

1987a has long been studied and the difference in time between the arrival of neutrinos and light here on Earth is understood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A#Neutrino_emissions

It should also be noted that Franson is not an astrophysicist.

http://cybersecurity.umbc.edu/training/faculty/james-franson/


5 posted on 06/28/2014 12:26:49 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: BenLurkin

Oh crap. Am I going to have to set my clocks back?


6 posted on 06/28/2014 12:28:45 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: BenLurkin; SunkenCiv

fascinating


7 posted on 06/28/2014 12:30:27 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Eddie01

At those speeds you are neither matter or light...
you are aliens.


8 posted on 06/28/2014 12:30:54 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Eddie01

does this mean that stars might be a lot closer than we thought?


9 posted on 06/28/2014 12:31:12 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: BenLurkin

That’s pretty much what I’ve been thinking all along.


10 posted on 06/28/2014 12:31:26 PM PDT by boycott
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To: GeronL

In some cases yes


11 posted on 06/28/2014 12:34:42 PM PDT by Eddie01 (Liberals lie about everything all the time.)
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To: Eddie01

I’m glad we figured this out before we warped right into the center of a star!

*whew*


12 posted on 06/28/2014 12:36:57 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: BenLurkin

“....creates a gravitational potential between the pair of ‘virtual’ particles.”

While having to pack for a bit longer trip to Alpha Centauri, I wonder if the real discovery doesn’t have something to do with being able to create an anti-gravity device.


13 posted on 06/28/2014 12:37:08 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: BenLurkin
My apologies in advance if my understanding of quantum mechanics is too little to intelligently comment.

Stephen Hawking theorized that virtual particle-antiparticle pairs could spontaneously appear just outside the event horizon of a black hole, permitting one of the pair to enter the black hole and the other to escape, thus allowing matter to effectively escape from the black hole. The uncertainty principle permits otherwise impermissible things to happen as long as they don't require too much mass-energy or last too long.

It does seem to me conceivable that a photon moving through space could possibly undergo a similar transition, subject to the same uncertainty limitations. Conservation of mass-energy and momentum could perhaps insure that the photon which results at the end of the transition would have the same momentum (that is, direction) as the original photon. Whether the observed speed of the photon would be reduced is a question beyond my ability to conjecture.

The linked article suggests a delay of 4.7 hours over a path which takes 168,000 years to cover. I calculate that that is a discrepancy of roughly 3 parts per billion. That sounds to me like a pretty large error to have escaped observation given the great accuracy of time measurements possible today.

14 posted on 06/28/2014 12:37:52 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: GeronL

25.67 trillion miles to Alpha Centauri.

There’s your starting point. You do the math, I’m not even going to try.


15 posted on 06/28/2014 12:39:37 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: BenLurkin
 photo ze_law.jpg
16 posted on 06/28/2014 12:40:27 PM PDT by mikrofon (Fyzx BUMP)
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To: GeronL

light is just an identifier of the existence of matter, it does not limit matters law of existence

how fast matter moves is matters business


17 posted on 06/28/2014 12:41:36 PM PDT by Eddie01 (Liberals lie about everything all the time.)
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To: BenLurkin

What do the guys from The Big Bang Theory (except Howard) have to say about this?


18 posted on 06/28/2014 12:43:10 PM PDT by minnesota_bound
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To: BenLurkin
Einstein was wrong about the speed of light being constant at least.

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say
http://www.livescience.com/29111-speed-of-light-not-constant.html

Speed of Light Not a Constant: New Break-Through Research
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/04/speed-of-light-not-a-constant-it-varies-.html


19 posted on 06/28/2014 12:44:13 PM PDT by VitacoreVision
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To: GeronL

Exactly, the improbability of the position of matter makes space travel impossible.


20 posted on 06/28/2014 12:45:18 PM PDT by Eddie01 (Liberals lie about everything all the time.)
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To: SpaceBar

I can’t comprehend this stuff. However, it brings to mind Petr Beckman. He was a great, Hungarian mad scientist type who was a leading anti-communist writer back in the Reagan era. A real character. He took a lot of heat for questioning Einstein’s Theory. I hope this makes people take time to remember him.


21 posted on 06/28/2014 12:46:58 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Peace On Earth! Purity of Essence! McCain/Ripper 2016)
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To: Forgotten Amendments

Einstein was a true theoretical physicist. I have no doubt that he would welcome challenges to his theories.


22 posted on 06/28/2014 12:50:00 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: BenLurkin
I think it will be shown that the early Buddhists had it closest (I'm talking here not about pop-Buddhism with all it's silly compassion - I mean the hard core epistemology.)
  1. No Space
  2. No Time
  3. Therefore no speed nor distance since each depend on the former two.
  4. The so called 'multi-verse' is like saying 'how many points on a line' ... that is, there are in fact no points, and yet there is the continuum - and so the notion that there are infinity points. So, It's not that there are infinity universes, is that none occupies time or space, there are neither zero, nor one, nor many.

It's actually not, I think, contrary to what 'God' points to. There was a time when to even say His name at all - to utter it or even to conceive it - was a spiritual mistake ('sin' when it means, as it originally did, 'to miss the mark,' since all 'name and form' occupy time and space.) It wasn't that God occupied ALL time and space, or that all time and space was within the bounds of God, it's that there really is no time, nor space, yet: what is, is. Or: "It is only, it is."

That is why, I think we will see all the Quantum work approach, but never touch, the same roadblock Einstein never touched, but approached -> Like a cleat on a sailboat, the more progress you make pulling the rope through, the tighter the cleat, until the clamp force becomes infinite before the rope is through.

It's also why the universe only appears to manifest when observed. Because that is only when it manifests. Particles only take position when paired with attention.

When St. Augustine said "Whatever is exposed to the light, itself becomes the light." ... This light was not the 'light' we think of as in a flash light, nor the 'Light of God' we may conceive-> it was 'awareness.' (Many would argue that IS the light of God - awareness itself.)

So, no distance, no speed, because no space, no time ... and the appearance of the universe only as a phenomena with neither subject nor object. No witness, nothing to witness.

Not sure that will get Obama impeached this week.

That's been bouncing around my head for a couple years, and I guess this post on Einstein made it finally bounce out.

23 posted on 06/28/2014 12:54:38 PM PDT by tinyowl (A equals A)
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To: BenLurkin

Absurd over-sensationalistic headline. I guess if 20th century physics were arising in a context of 21st century journalistic sensationalism, we’d be treated to headlines like “Newton Wrong Speed of Light Finite!” and the like.

Everyone reasonably conversant in physics knows that both general relativity and quantum mechanics must both be “wrong” in the sense of being only approximately correct, since the real theory of physics must be both relativistic and quantum mechanical, and general relativity is a classical theory, while we are only able to do the calculations of quantum mechanics in a non-relativistic background.

I wonder how much of the anomalies the speculative surmises of “dark matter” and “dark energy” are supposed to address can be fixed just by quantum corrections to general relativity. Beyond the massive neutrinos there may be no mysterious “dark matter” at all, ditto for “dark energy” since we still need what Einstein meant by a “grand unified theory” incorporating both gravity and the other forces in one description. And a description which must be quantum mechanical. It you want an “Einstein was wrong” headline, the really important basis for one came a while ago when it was confirmed that physical reality violates Bell’s Inequalities, and therefore cannot be describe by a classical local hidden variable theory of the sort Einstein thought should underlie and replace quantum mechanics.


24 posted on 06/28/2014 12:59:38 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: SpaceBar
Placing my bet on the old patent clerk

Me too. But it's good to see that "settled science" is being challenged (are you listening, Al Gore?).

Having said that, objections to Relativity have always followed a two-step process:

Step 1: A scientist discovers a flaw in Einstein's work.
Step 2: (weeks later) The scientist finds an error in his own work. Einstein was right after all.

25 posted on 06/28/2014 1:03:12 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: BenLurkin; All

Beware of the super-genius Einstein created by media as opposed to the real Einstein who occasionally made conceptual errors like everybody else.


26 posted on 06/28/2014 1:03:35 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: BenLurkin

Great. Now I have to start worrying about how close those black holes are all over again.


27 posted on 06/28/2014 1:04:20 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Melowese Richardson - Democrat Vote Fraud Expert)
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To: BenLurkin

Well ever try beating it into bed from the wall switch


28 posted on 06/28/2014 1:05:25 PM PDT by al baby (Hi MomÂ…)
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To: VitacoreVision

“Einstein was wrong about the speed of light being constant at least. “

Einstein is STILL right. The fact that when light interacts with matter it slows down is a common fact for every high school science student. The links talk about space being filled with ‘matter’ which light interacts with, thus slowing down.


29 posted on 06/28/2014 1:05:45 PM PDT by TexasGator
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To: GeronL

What about the things in the passenger side mirror?


30 posted on 06/28/2014 1:06:35 PM PDT by al baby (Hi MomÂ…)
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To: mikrofon
 photo Albertandfriends.jpg
31 posted on 06/28/2014 1:10:37 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: cripplecreek
Einstein was a true theoretical physicist. I have no doubt that he would welcome challenges to his theories.

Absolutely! Beckman just offended the "settled science" Gorean crowd of the day. If I remember right, he admired Einstein, just disagreed with his TOR. He was aggressively pro-nuke in the '70s and of course, any anti-communist was trashed back then. This weenie is still bitter:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Petr_Beckmann

32 posted on 06/28/2014 1:12:23 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Peace On Earth! Purity of Essence! McCain/Ripper 2016)
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To: BenLurkin

The debate is over. This is settled science. The deniers should be jailed.


33 posted on 06/28/2014 1:15:37 PM PDT by Senator_Blutarski
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To: BenLurkin

Maybe the light stopped off for a Light.


34 posted on 06/28/2014 1:17:03 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: mikrofon

It’s threads like these that remind me how much I miss the contributions of FReeper Boris (RIP).


35 posted on 06/28/2014 1:22:26 PM PDT by Ezekiel (All who mourn the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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To: al baby

Some galaxies may be closer than they appear


36 posted on 06/28/2014 1:25:07 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Eddie01

we need an improbability drive!


37 posted on 06/28/2014 1:25:50 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: tinyowl

“there are neither zero, nor one, nor many.”

http://www.johnspeedie.com/healy/saywhat.wav


38 posted on 06/28/2014 1:26:22 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: cripplecreek

too many zeroes


39 posted on 06/28/2014 1:26:31 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Larry Lucido

Well, yeah...it tastes great.

Or is it... less filling?


40 posted on 06/28/2014 1:27:25 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: gorush

Great pic!


41 posted on 06/28/2014 1:31:30 PM PDT by gr8eman (A good rant should have the word "crap" in it at least 4 times!)
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To: al baby

You are racing against the speed of dark.


42 posted on 06/28/2014 1:32:08 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Bratch
In 1987, light particles of a supernova arrived 4.7 hours later than expected

That one is a little far fetched to be believed. We know exactly when neutrinos from the 1987A supernova passed through earth (they were detected by several underground neutrino detector experiments), but I doubt we know exactly when photons from 1987A arrived. The moment that Canadian astronomer FIRST noticed 1987A visually from that observatory in Chile doesn't count as the moment the photons arrived.
43 posted on 06/28/2014 1:33:24 PM PDT by plsvn
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To: GeronL; 6SJ7; AdmSmith; AFPhys; Arkinsaw; allmost; aristotleman; autumnraine; backwoods-engineer; ..
Thanks GeronL. They're still trying to kludge their way around the problem (and solution) identified by the late Halton Arp (see the keyword).


· List topics · post a topic · subscribe · Google ·

44 posted on 06/28/2014 1:33:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: BenLurkin

Light and Dark Matter walk into a bar....


45 posted on 06/28/2014 1:36:13 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: The_Reader_David
"both general relativity and quantum mechanics must both be “wrong” in the sense of being only approximately correct, since the real theory of physics must be both relativistic and quantum mechanical, and general relativity is a classical theory, while we are only able to do the calculations of quantum mechanics in a non-relativistic background."

Oh....yeah...I was....I was just going to say...that...you know...uh....exactly that.

46 posted on 06/28/2014 1:37:17 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: BenLurkin

We see matter going faster than the speed of light every day. When Obama has a new scandal, Republicans hide under their desks, crawl into a fetal position while sucking their thumbs at 187,000 miles per second.


47 posted on 06/28/2014 1:39:33 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Hitlery: Incarnation of evil.)
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To: BenLurkin

Gee, didn’t a “consensus” of scientists agree that Einstein was correct...the science is settled. Anyone who disagrees is an Einstein “denier”. This is how “climate science” works so why not apply it here?


48 posted on 06/28/2014 1:40:25 PM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: BenLurkin

Albert Einstein walks to a door that says “pull” but instead he pushes and of course it doesn’t open. His wife says “Good going Einstein, can’t you read?”


49 posted on 06/28/2014 1:42:15 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Hitlery: Incarnation of evil.)
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You and me both brotha. Quantum Theory is in complete disarray, requiring constant fudging and new variables to form fit itself to newly discovered data. No doubt, Einstein is rolling over in his grave.


50 posted on 06/28/2014 1:49:48 PM PDT by TheTopRead
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