Skip to comments.Who is right: Ron Paul or the Obama administration (on Crimean & E. Ukranian self-determination)?
Posted on 03/11/2014 12:56:49 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Ron Paul has basically said that Crimea has the right to self-determination and by extension a right to an independence referendum vote.
The Obama administration seems to be goading Europe (not that it would take that much) into agreeing with it that Crimea (and Eastern Ukraine) do not have the right to self-determination, and that Western powers will not accept a referendum vote in Crimea (or Eastern Ukraine for that matter) that leads to Crimea joining Russia, or becoming independent.
Margeurite, yesterday, nailed it on the head, though, in a thread of mine:
"The West cannot have it both ways. They can't say, for example, that the right of Albanians to self-determination in Kosovo trumps Serbia's right to territorial integrity, and then turn around and say that Ukraine's right to territorial integrity trumps the right of Russians in Crimea to self-determination."
And to add to the mix, what if Eastern Ukraine wants to exert self-determination...join with Russia? What about Moldava?
Will Obama and his administration (and Europe for that matter) declare Kosovo independence null-and-void?
Ron Paul to Obama: "Check and mate."
What say you?
Nope. The U.S. laid down its marker and stance with Kosovo.
I say we should invite Crimea to apply for Statehood in the USA.
That’ll fix ‘er
By saying what I did, what happened in Kosovo (and the stance that the U.S. and Europe took) has come back to bite the U.S. and Europe in the behind.
BTW, glad to see you posts again. :)
Oops, meant “your.”
We lost the moment Obama downgraded our military capability while stepping up the meddling in other people’s business. Not much we can do about this in the short-term. The major damage has already been done. Need to start rebuilding our military might and our standing in the world. Obama is a weak-ass punk, don’t trust the libertarian mindset.
Do it like what was done with Nova Scotia. Let Crimea choose to be independent, part of Canada, part of Great Briton, or part of the US, with a change their mind clause.
We have to remember that the whole Yugoslav breakup was a multi ethnic nightmare without a dominant outside power. I think it was a pretty unique setup and, remember, Russia was a basket case are the time. The Ukraine seems to be everyone against the numerous Russians. The ethnic areas aren’t nearly as well defined as Yugoslavia was.
The Kosovo precedent was an earth-shattering change in international law, and will have effects for decades if not centuries.
Crimea won’t be the last to follow this precedent, it’s just the beginning.
At some point the world will have to reexamine the issue and decide whether both provinces have the right to self determination or neither do. Can’t have it both ways.
Yeah, I can see where you are coimg from.
But I can see, too, that Clinton put us in a pickle. Obama is meddling, downsizing, but will either make us look the hypocrite as a nation, or will make us look weak. There is a lot about Ron Paul and pure libertarian that I don’t like, but he seems to have Obama on this one...
Either way, in the end, I think most Americans don’t really care if Crimea votes to join Russia...
I want Obama to do what he’s best at and most qualified for.
LOL ! Just like Quebec blah blah and so on... It's not like Quebec, Putin's propagandists are “forgetting” that France hadn't really landed thousands of troops in Quebec, didn't put their puppet as a head of local government, didn't mass 150k troops next to Canadian border and no, France didn't pass a special bill allowing them to absorb Quebec with one simple administrative decision. Actually France was not involved at all.
BTW Putin hadn't given a damn about locals in Crimea and their right to self-determination until his puppet “President” of Ukraine was kicked out.
“The West cannot have it both ways. They can't say, for example, that the right of Albanians to self-determination in Kosovo trumps Serbia's right to territorial integrity”
So why Ukraine should pay for Kosovo nonsense ?
How about something a little closer to home?
Can California hold a referendum to secede from the US and join Mexico?
Or how about if the USA turns into a totalitarian leftist nightmare, does Texas have the right to become independent?
There are pros and cons of either choice, saying that provinces have the right to self determination or do not.
But a choice needs to be made and it needs to be consistent.
There are provinces all over the world that would love to split off.
You forget, the Kosovo Albanians are moozlims. Moozlims have special rights other people don't have.
You have a valid point about Texas. However, the equivalent would be the following:
What if Mexico moves 20 million people into Texas, and holds a referendum for Texas to join Mexico.
Russia moved people/troops/infrastructure in, and is forcing a region to vote to join them.
It’s a hostile takeover/invasion of a region.
ie, it’s not Kosovo, it’s Kuwait.
On this matter I stand with Ron Paul snd Putin. I stand against Ted Cruz.
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