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Inside Ukraine: Reader Who Speaks Ukrainian and Russian Challenges Western Media View of Events
Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis ^ | 02/27/2014 | Mike Shedlock

Posted on 02/28/2014 8:50:14 AM PST by Rusty0604

I received an interesting email regarding Ukraine from reader Jacob Dreizin, a US citizen who speaks both Russian and Ukrainian.

Jacob comments on media bias and offers the "full scoop" on Ukraine.

Hi Mish,

The last Ukrainian government was awful, but as someone who speaks the language and has been reading the local news for hours each day, I want you to know there are two sides to this story.

The Western media is not reporting accurately and in a balanced way as to what’s going on in Ukraine, both in the run-up to the fall of the regime, and now, in the aftermath.

There is a “reign of terror” in Kiev and some other areas right now.

Offices and even private homes associated with the former ruling party and its communist allies have been ransacked or burned by militias...

Other pro-Russia citizens have been rounded up and taken away by militias, with no warrant. We have no idea if, how, or where they are being held.

The ultra-nationalist umbrella groups that direct the militias have just announced they will essentially take charge of Central Elections Commission HQ and monitor its work during the upcoming national vote. How fair will the vote be?

Also, one of parliament’s very first post-revolution decisions was to revoke the right of local governments to do business in non-Ukrainian languages, such as Russian. Another law has been proposed to effectively ban the broadcast or rebroadcast of television or radio from Russia. There are still other proposed bills aimed at provoking and oppressing the Russian or Russian-speaking population.

It’s much easier to pretend this is about democracy, human rights, the peoples’ choice, etc. while looking the other way now that “our guys” have won. We have seen this movie before.

(Excerpt) Read more at globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: ukraine
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Map at link shows a large portion of Ukraine as Russian speaking.
1 posted on 02/28/2014 8:50:14 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604

That’s true in some areas, but not everywhere.

For the viewpoint of expats who live throughout Ukraine:

http://www.expatua.com/forum


2 posted on 02/28/2014 8:56:23 AM PST by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: Rusty0604

Get and read this book to understand the incredible depths of animosity between the ethnic and national (not always the same) groups in Eastern Europe.

http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125003356X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393606576&sr=1-1&keywords=savage+continent+europe+in+the+aftermath+of+world+war+ii+by+keith+lowe


3 posted on 02/28/2014 8:56:23 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Rusty0604

Facist meet Communist. Communist meet Facist. Frying Pan meet Fire. Fire meet Frying Pan.


4 posted on 02/28/2014 8:57:11 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Rusty0604

If true, not good either. Trading “your” despot for “their” despot is not progress.


5 posted on 02/28/2014 8:57:27 AM PST by FAA
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To: Travis McGee
Get it from your library.

Five star recommendation from me.


6 posted on 02/28/2014 8:58:06 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Rusty0604

Its all just a distraction from our more important local problems anyway.

In my opinion, we should be a lot more concerned about Venezuela and the rest of central and south America.


7 posted on 02/28/2014 9:01:29 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Kartographer

Good summary.


8 posted on 02/28/2014 9:02:22 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: cripplecreek

You’re right. I don’t hear much about the problems in our own hemisphere, mostly caused by communism.


9 posted on 02/28/2014 9:05:52 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604; meatloaf; Travis McGee; All

Thanks for posting; linking. Fascinating history unfolding in real-time.


10 posted on 02/28/2014 9:07:51 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Rusty0604

When Honduras legally threw out their wannabe dictator our media and government were calling it a coup and trying to force them to put him back in power.

In Honduras, congress, the supreme court, and military all conspired to conduct a “Coup” against a president who was trying to do away with term limits for himself among other things.


11 posted on 02/28/2014 9:11:02 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Rusty0604

12 posted on 02/28/2014 9:12:02 AM PST by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: PGalt

Like in former Yugoslavia, there are raging hatreds between the ethnic and national groups in E. Europe. The borders were rejiggered after WW2, and populations were evicted, oppressed, etc. The USSR kept the lid on the way that Tito did in Yugoslavia. Now the pressure cooker is rattling and steaming and hopping around on the stove. “It’s gonna blw!” (Mabye.)

But NOBODY should believe the simplistic explanation about Ukrainian freedom-lovers vs. Evil Russia. It’s 100X more complex and convoluted than that. Read “Savage Continent’ linked above.


13 posted on 02/28/2014 9:15:25 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Typing too fast. “It’s gonna blow!” (Maybe.)


14 posted on 02/28/2014 9:15:57 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: FAA

The despot who destabized things here is Soros.
I don’t suppose there will be any real winners but I hope he loses everything.


15 posted on 02/28/2014 9:18:18 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Rusty0604

They is a backlash against the oppressors, who knew?


16 posted on 02/28/2014 9:30:27 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: FReepers
Make FR GREEN!


Click The Pic

Support Conservatism, Donate Monthly If You Can


17 posted on 02/28/2014 9:33:27 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: Grampa Dave

Looks like a split is the logical way to handle the situation.

Not that logic ever plays much of a role in these cases.


18 posted on 02/28/2014 9:33:42 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: GeronL

Just watched a movie recently about the liberation of Holland. Those who had “collaborated” with the Nazis were pretty egregiously mistreated.

This is very common, indeed almost universal in civil conflicts. Our own civil war is very nearly unique in the low level of revenge taken by the winners.


19 posted on 02/28/2014 9:35:53 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

After the next civil war it will take months to hang all the bureaucrats, journalists and “educators”/professors


20 posted on 02/28/2014 9:41:08 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Sherman Logan

I’ve thought a split between liberal and conservative here in U.S. may be our only peaceful answer.


21 posted on 02/28/2014 9:54:21 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604

The problem is that no part of the country has anything close to the dominance of Russian vs. Ukrainian in the liberal/conservative split. Even in the most conservative areas there are probably 1/3 liberals, and the reverse in liberal areas.

IOW, our split is not really regional in nature, so how the heck do you split by region?


22 posted on 02/28/2014 10:01:23 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Rusty0604

First off I’d want to learn of Jacob’s basic political persuasion.We mustn’t forget Walter Duranty of the Slimes...he had nasty things to say about Uncle Joe’s foes...and he got a Pulitzer for it.


23 posted on 02/28/2014 10:13:22 AM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: Rusty0604
The Western media is not reporting accurately

Do they ever?

24 posted on 02/28/2014 10:16:15 AM PST by mykroar (We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again. - Nathanael Greene)
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To: Rusty0604
The Western media is not reporting accurately and in a balanced way

Well gee, that's totally unexpected.

25 posted on 02/28/2014 10:16:22 AM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Travis McGee
I also like this book:

It's amazing how many people were eliminated from the face of the earth, many from the Ukraine. They were peasant farm workers who never fought back. One of my old girlfriends was Ukrainian and I learned alot about that country from her.

Her current take is that Crimea will try and stay with Russia and the rest will stay with the Ukraine but that corruption is rampant everywhere, by all sides.

26 posted on 02/28/2014 10:21:01 AM PST by Solson (The Voters stole the election! And the establishment wants it back.)
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To: Solson
And...the book is:


27 posted on 02/28/2014 10:23:20 AM PST by Solson (The Voters stole the election! And the establishment wants it back.)
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To: Sherman Logan

I know that is a problem. If the Federal gov’t hadn’t taken over State’s rights like they have, people would just naturally move to a State that suits them. But the Federal gov’t forces citizens of all States to participate in wealth distribution and comply with all the regulations from the different agencies and are not allowed to decide their own economic and moral principles.


28 posted on 02/28/2014 10:27:01 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604

I don’t disagree with your complaints. I’m simply trying to point out that no simple regional split is even possible.

Even if it were, the regions wouldn’t be contiguous, getting us into a Pakistan-type situation. That could never work.


29 posted on 02/28/2014 10:34:11 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Rusty0604
The Western media is not reporting accurately and in a balanced way as to what’s going on in Ukraine, both in the run-up to the fall of the regime, and now, in the aftermath.

It can't be, we all know better, they wouldn't lie about something so serious, ever.

30 posted on 02/28/2014 10:34:38 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Sherman Logan

“Looks like a split is the logical way to handle the situation.

Not that logic ever plays much of a role in these cases.”

Cui Bono is the driving forces in this issue. Who benefits, and that varies with who wins this war of words and showing of power.

Will George $oreA$$ and his Euro Union thugs benefit with cheaper natural gas and more cheap wheat, than they can use in bread and pasta in a million years?

Or will Putin continue to expand the Russian empire without firing a shot and continue winning the economic battle down the road of time?


31 posted on 02/28/2014 10:41:37 AM PST by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: Sherman Logan

I know you are right. One can dream though.


32 posted on 02/28/2014 10:44:49 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: cripplecreek

i agree the problems in the western hemisphere are more important to us than eastern europe but those problems are not insignificant either. looks like a green yellow split would leave ukraine with just 1 major port, odessa, and loss of over half their land. wow looking at a map and reading citiy names takes me back to my wargaming days doing eastern front battles. this is not going to end well for anyone except NWO fascists.


33 posted on 02/28/2014 1:50:33 PM PST by bravo whiskey (We should not fear our government. Our government should fear us.)
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To: bravo whiskey; Grampa Dave

this is not going to end well for anyone except NWO fascists.
_______________

Which may be the answer to “Cui bono?”.


34 posted on 02/28/2014 3:44:45 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: Rusty0604

Placemark.


35 posted on 02/28/2014 8:51:02 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: reformedliberal

“this is not going to end well for anyone except NWO fascists.
_______________

Which may be the answer to “Cui bono?”.

The problem is, we really don’t understand all of the current events, and who is pushing them or pulling the strings.

Forget history going back a hundred years. It is today’s events and the button pushers behind the curtains stirring the Ukraine pot.


36 posted on 03/01/2014 8:44:50 AM PST by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
First off I’d want to learn of Jacob’s basic political persuasion.

Good point. When you get emails from somebody about politics it's a safe bet that they're working some kind of ideological or political angle. Also, their information is only as good as their own sources which may be as biased or ill-informed as anybody else's.

If this is the Jacob Dreizin who's a Congressional staffer, it looks like he's a Democrat, also an Army veteran, and somebody who talks to bloggers more than a government employee probably should.

I guess there's even odds that civil strife anywhere in the world will have a bad outcome somehow, but I don't see that Dreizin's picture is better than anybody else's and wonder what angle he or his sources are promoting.

37 posted on 03/01/2014 9:04:30 AM PST by x
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To: Sherman Logan

Historically, parts of Ukraine have been parts of other countries just over the last few hundreds years. So any current borders don’t have any solid historical past anyway.

And the US has no freaking business to mess with it imho; especially with the commie/moslem freaks in DC.


38 posted on 03/01/2014 10:42:13 AM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Travis McGee

Yep, unfortunately they’ll be no “Velvet Divorce” like the Czechs and Slovaks did.


39 posted on 03/01/2014 10:46:28 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Grampa Dave

From cursory reading, I would start looking at the higher councils of the EU and the UN. These are the planners. Then, I would trace those individuals and committee and agency heads to related NGO and quangos. These are the button pushers, puppets of those above them. The funders of same are the multi-billionaires and they are likely the policy setters. I doubt it is even hidden.

For decades, they have told us what they are doing and where they are going. They know the masses don’t hear, don’t care and are powerless, anyway.

But, in the words of our next POTUS:”What difference does it make?”

It is a hydra. Chop off one head, another grows back, maybe two. Today Ukraine, Venezuela, Thailand. Tomorrow, another group of nations ripe for the plucking. Eventually, us.

Look at how the wealthiest, younger tech entrepreneurs are now going after whatever riches and power may lie in space. There will always be new players and new frontiers. Perhaps “Elysium” is where it is going.


40 posted on 03/01/2014 10:50:38 AM PST by reformedliberal
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To: little jeremiah
Historically, parts of Ukraine have been parts of other countries just over the last few hundreds years. So any current borders don’t have any solid historical past anyway.

True...Much of Western Ukraine was Polish before the war, the Soviets kicked the Poles out. Lwów jest Polski!

41 posted on 03/01/2014 10:51:53 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: reformedliberal

Interesting self bio.

Out of curiosity, how old are you.

I’m in my mid 70’s and started really looking at what was supposedly happening in our world after I turned 70. Not what we were being told by the elites on both sides.

Dave


42 posted on 03/01/2014 10:59:40 AM PST by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: little jeremiah
parts of Ukraine have been parts of other countries just over the last few hundreds years. So any current borders don’t have any solid historical past anyway.

A really peculiar argument for an American to make, given our own history. Kind of takes away any American right to complain about "Hispanics" wanting to reunify "Aztlan."

The Crimea, notably, was part of Russia till the 50s, when Kruschev handed it off to Ukraine as a nationalist sop. Since both Russia and Ukraine were under the thumb of the Soviet Communist Party, it was difficult at the time to see how it might make any difference.

Ooops.

It should be noted that in Eastern Europe (Poland, Baltics, Ukraine, Russia, eastern Germany, etc.), which is a giant plain, there are NO "natural boundaries," and none of the present boundaries have any "solid historical past." Using "historical boundaries" as definitive necessarily involves never-ending conflict, since they all overlap. For instance, Poland (or Poland-Lithuania) used to include much of the Ukraine and western Russia, all of the Baltics, etc.

It should also be noted that this was exactly the reasoning Hitler used (quite accurately) as justification for his invasion of Poland, a country only 20 years old at the time, a little newer than Ukraine is now. It incorporated land that had previously been part of Germany for many centuries and the inhabitants of which wanted to return to the Fatherland.

And the US has no freaking business to mess with it imho

I quite agree. I don't believe I've ever said otherwise.

43 posted on 03/01/2014 11:49:30 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
It should also be noted that this was exactly the reasoning Hitler used (quite accurately) as justification for his invasion of Poland, a country only 20 years old at the time, a little newer than Ukraine is now. It incorporated land that had previously been part of Germany for many centuries

Of course most of those "German" cities were founded during the Piast era and originally had Polish names, before the Germans moved in. So as usual, these things cut both ways.

44 posted on 03/01/2014 11:51:20 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Sherman Logan
Poland, a country only 20 years old at the time, a little newer than Ukraine is now.

got ignorance?

45 posted on 03/01/2014 11:52:24 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: dfwgator
Much of Western Ukraine was Polish before the war, the Soviets kicked the Poles out.

Of course, just 30 years before that this area was entirely Russian, as was most of what is now Poland.

"Historical boundaries" is a game fraught with contradictions.

46 posted on 03/01/2014 12:15:13 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: reformedliberal
From cursory reading, I would start looking at the higher councils of the EU and the UN. These are the planners.

The EU and the UN as the entities secretly potting behind the scenes to control the world.

That's very funny. Almost as funny as the conspiracy theory with the British Royal Family filling the same role.

The first requirement of any such conspiracy would be extraordinary competence, a quality for which neither the EU, UN nor Royal Family is well known.

I have no doubt there are groups out there, notably the EU and UN, that would love to fill this role. I just doubt their ability to implement their plans.

IOW, I agree with you as to their intentions, disagree with regard to their capabilities.

47 posted on 03/01/2014 12:22:13 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Revolting cat!

Nope.

Poland reassembled itself after WWII from the partitions imposed on it by Austria, Prussia and Russia 150 or so years earlier. This was in very late 1918. Then it fought a number of wars, notably with USSR, that determined its boundaries.

So the Poland invaded by Germany in 1939 was less than 21 years old, and some of its boundaries were some years younger than that.

Ukraine declared its independence from USSR in June of 1990. So it is at present coming up on being 24 years old.


48 posted on 03/01/2014 12:28:22 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Germany only became a country in 1871, so I guess they were “new” too.


49 posted on 03/01/2014 12:30:07 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Sherman Logan

That’s right, but to say blankly that a country with a 1,000 year old history of nationhood is only 20 years old is misleading to say the least. So the comparison to Ukraine, which as a state is twenty some years old is not quite valid. And oh, the word ‘ukraine’ meant in both Polish and Russian ‘borderlands’ until the Ukrainian province was first created by Russia and Poland in the 17th century.


50 posted on 03/01/2014 12:35:01 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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