Christian Group Says Christians Can't Support Govt. Helping Poor People

Opposing Views ^ | 10/16/2013 | By Michael Allen

[celmak]

"Google poor laws."

Did. The British had them; but I did not find any "poor laws" prior to the constitution. The only "poor law" that I found was one in NY after the Constitution was ratified. But then, how Christian - self governing - is NY? Can you give a specific link to a site?

[DannyTN]

Maybe I should have said google "Poor Laws in the colonies". The point is that there was very much an active state driven poor relief program. It wasn't done all by charities like today's libertarians would have you believe.

Poor Relief in the United States

From Poor Law to Welfare State

[celmak]

"Maybe I should have said google "Poor Laws in the colonies". The point is that there was very much an active state driven poor relief program. It wasn't done all by charities like today's libertarians would have you believe."

Read the first link, have to wait till I get home on the second. Needless to say; that first link is VERY interesting (thank you). It should be pointed out that (and appears prominently) the Puritan church was very important in helping to make these laws; you can tell that by how close these laws were to Biblical principles (e.g., worthy, unworthy, etc.). It's a shame that we have gotten away from these Biblical principles and now pay in high taxes to those that are able, unaccountable, and will not work.

I look forward to your response to my other posts/questions.

[DannyTN]

"It's a shame that we have gotten away from these Biblical principles and now pay in high taxes to those that are able, unaccountable, and will not work."

Agreed, although as one of the articles points out the poor houses that were intended for the unworthy ended up being populated mostly by the worthy.

And our biggest problem right now is the stupid government policies that have offshored our industries and resulted in a dramatic increase in the unemployed.

We need to bring back American industry and put those willing to work back to work. Only then does it make sense to focus on dividing the remainder between those who can work and those who can't.

I do think it makes sense to have some kind of intervention for those that can but won't work. And we need to beef up fraud stings for those that collect benefits but are not illegible.

[celmak]

"Agreed, although as one of the articles points out the poor houses that were intended for the unworthy ended up being populated mostly by the worthy."

Indeed; but that does get away from Biblical principles too.

"And our biggest problem right now is the stupid government policies that have offshored our industries and resulted in a dramatic increase in the unemployed."

Though it is a subject of the ways of employment are involved; it is a good topic for another thread.

"I do think it makes sense to have some kind of intervention for those that can but won't work. And we need to beef up fraud stings for those that collect benefits but are not illegible."

I know what you mean; I agree.

I'm doing a bit of research on what the Founders thought of government welfare/poor laws, etc.; they often cited the Bible, or used Biblical principles, in arguing/resolving such issues (as with just about all issues). I think you may find it interesting too. Here is an excerpt from Heritage about Ben Franklin with quotes from him:

"Franklin could be quite strict toward those who turned their back on his exhortations. Despite his affinity with the common man, he had little patience for the folly that led people astray. His reflections on the English poor laws, based upon his years in London, are remarkably harsh by today’s standards. Poor laws, he thought, risked falling into that species of misdirected charity that “tends to flatter our natural indolence, to encourage idleness and prodigality, and thereby to promote and increase poverty.” Legitimate relief is one thing, but in excess, “may it not be found fighting against the order of God and Nature, which perhaps has appointed Want and Misery as the proper Punishments for, and Cautions against as well as necessary consequences of Idleness and Extravagancy.”

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/benjamin-franklin-the-sage-of-america

[TurboZamboni]

Arlen Sphincter has some Scottish law on that.

[TurboZamboni]

[celmak]

I think it would be good to see what the founders had to say about this

also.http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2011/07/what-would-the-founders-do-about-welfare

[TurboZamboni]

Leftists “Social Justice”:

“We’re telling you to do what we say Jesus said and having the government make sure you do it”

[celmak]

"Leftists “Social Justice”: “We’re telling you to do what we say Jesus said and having the government make sure you do it”

It's worse than that; they're distorting what Jesus said and telling us He said, "Government is to take your money and give to those who don't want to work to get themselves out of being poor!" It is quoted in the LBV (Liberal Bible Version) Bible; didn't you know that?

[TurboZamboni]

that's why I phrased it like, We’re telling you to do what we say Jesus said...

(we agree);)

[celmak]

"(we agree);)"

Yes, I do appreciate and enjoy good sarcasm; and yours was enjoyably based on truth. I agreed with what you stated and just thought I would reciprocate with some sarcastic wit against the theology of Liberalism myself. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed yours!

:-)