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Goodbye Big Bang, hello black hole? A new theory of the universe's creation
Phys.org ^ | 9/19/13 | Elizabeth Howell

Posted on 09/19/2013 6:56:01 PM PDT by LibWhacker

Goodbye Big Bang, hello black hole? A new theory of the universe's creation

Goodbye Big Bang, hello black hole? A new theory of the universe’s creation Enlarge
Artist’s conception of the event horizon of a black hole. Credit: Victor de Schwanberg/Science Photo Library

Could the famed "Big Bang" theory need a revision? A group of theoretical physicists suppose the birth of the universe could have happened after a four-dimensional star collapsed into a black hole and ejected debris.

Before getting into their findings, let's just preface this by saying nobody knows anything for sure. Humans obviously weren't around at the time the universe began. The standard theory is that the universe grew from an infinitely dense point or , but who knows what was there before?

"For all physicists know, dragons could have come flying out of the singularity," stated Niayesh Afshordi, an with the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada who co-authored the new study.

So what are the limitations of the Big Bang theory? The singularity is one of them. Also, it's hard to predict why it would have produced a universe that has an almost , because the age of our universe (about 13.8 billion years) does not give enough time—as far as we can tell—to reach a temperature .

Most say the universe must have been expanding faster than the for this to happen, but Ashford says even that theory has problems: "The Big Bang was so chaotic, it's not clear there would have been even a small homogenous patch for to start working on."

Goodbye Big Bang, hello black hole? A new theory of the universe’s creation Enlarge
Representation of the timeline of the universe over 13.7 billion years, from the Big Bang, through the cosmic dark ages and formation of the first stars, to the expansion in the universe that followed. Credit: NASA/WMAP Science Team

This is what the physicists propose:

.physorg-news-middle-block { width: 550px; height: 90px; }

The long and the short of it? To bring this back to things that we can see, it is clear from observations that the universe is expanding (and indeed is getting faster as it expands, possibly due to the mysterious dark energy). The new theory says that the expansion comes from this 3-D brane's growth. But there  is at least one limitation.

While the model does explain why the universe has nearly uniform temperature (the 4-D universe preceding it would have existed it for much longer), a European Space Agency telescope called Planck recently mapped small temperature variations in the cosmic microwave background, which is believed to be leftovers of the universe's beginnings.

Goodbye Big Bang, hello black hole? A new theory of the universe’s creation Enlarge
This artist’s impression shows the surroundings of the supermassive black hole at the heart of the active galaxy NGC 3783 in the southern constellation of Centaurus (The Centaur). New observations using the Very Large Telescope Interferometer at ESO’s Paranal Observatory in Chile have revealed not only the torus of hot dust around the black hole but also a wind of cool material in the polar regions. Credit: ESO/M. Kornmesser

The new model differs from these CMB readings by about four percent, so the researchers are looking to refine the model. They still feel the model has worth, however. Planck shows that inflation is happening, but doesn't show why the inflation is happening.

"The study could help to show how inflation is triggered by the motion of the universe through a higher-dimensional reality," the researchers stated.


TOPICS: Astronomy; Science
KEYWORDS: bigbang; blackhole; cosmology; origins; stringtheory; universe

1 posted on 09/19/2013 6:56:01 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker; JoeProBono

That theory sucks!


2 posted on 09/19/2013 6:58:36 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: LibWhacker
Goodbye Big Bang, hello black hole?


3 posted on 09/19/2013 6:59:44 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: LibWhacker

I remember hearing this idea, or something similar, on Art Bell back in the 1990’s


4 posted on 09/19/2013 7:03:16 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Wayne Green - W2NSD - Silent Key - Rest In Peace)
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To: LibWhacker

Where did the four-dimensional star and the black hole come from?


5 posted on 09/19/2013 7:04:08 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: LibWhacker

“the 4D universe preceding it”

Where did the 4D universe come from?

From another universe preceding it?

That line of thought is logically fallacious — infinite regression.

Where then did the 4D universe come from?

From nothing?...

Nothing causes nothing to come into existence. Causeless effects?

Logically fallacious...


6 posted on 09/19/2013 7:05:49 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: LibWhacker

“For all physicists know, dragons could have come flying out of the singularity,”

It was flying pigs and unicorns that came out of the singularity.


7 posted on 09/19/2013 7:07:03 PM PDT by Redcitizen (.)
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To: LibWhacker
Genesis 1

1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


That's all we need to know.

Sorry Atheists, that's how it happened and that's how it is to be.

Actually ? the new name for Atheists, is ? Deniers.
8 posted on 09/19/2013 7:09:50 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: dfwgator

Racists to say and as ? blacker than black ?


9 posted on 09/19/2013 7:10:22 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: LibWhacker

What really is the difference between a singularity and a black hole? How can someone theorize a point with all the mass in the universe, without that point being a black hole?


10 posted on 09/19/2013 7:18:37 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Alex Murphy

11 posted on 09/19/2013 7:21:20 PM PDT by JoeProBono (Mille vocibus imago valet;-{)
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To: Cicero

What holds up the world?

It is held on the back of a giant turtle.

What holds up the turtle?

There is a giant elephant under each foot.

What holds up the elephants?

It’s elephants all the way down!


12 posted on 09/19/2013 7:25:22 PM PDT by proxy_user
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To: LibWhacker

Google “Halton Arp”


13 posted on 09/19/2013 7:26:34 PM PDT by preacher (I am not a global warming hoax denier.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

nobody says how god created it. maybe he used a blackhole? that would explain a lot.


14 posted on 09/19/2013 7:26:46 PM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: LibWhacker
Immensely thought provoking theory, yet I fail to see why we look to beauty consultants for answers to questions of such grand magnitude.
15 posted on 09/19/2013 7:28:27 PM PDT by Dysart (Being nuts has its advantages...and the machete doesn't hurt, either.)
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To: Cicero

I think they are content to explain anything; e.g., the uniform temperature problem, and aren’t trying to explain everything. So we are as puzzled by what came before their 4-D universe as we’ve always been about what preceded the Big Bang. Do I claim to understand how their idea explains away the temperature problem? Heck, no, I wish! :-)


16 posted on 09/19/2013 7:38:22 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Each elephant stands on another one. Eventually the bottom elephant stands on a tortoise. That takes care of that.


17 posted on 09/19/2013 7:45:35 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (Er)
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To: LibWhacker

It is said that the light of a distant star takes thousands, maybe millions of years to reach Earth. How do we know if those stars still exist? Maybe they exploded or burned out long ago, and we are just now seeing their light. Maybe the entire visible universe is just an illusion of light. Something to chew on.


18 posted on 09/19/2013 7:49:36 PM PDT by jespasinthru (Proud member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.)
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To: Cicero

bush did it....

but seriously

in the so called natural world...Nothing comes from nothing...ever


19 posted on 09/19/2013 7:51:50 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Un-Documented Journalist / Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I appreciate the manner in which you phrased that.


20 posted on 09/19/2013 7:52:29 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Un-Documented Journalist / Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team)
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To: LibWhacker

Personally I think it all started not with a 4D star but rather with WD-4D


21 posted on 09/19/2013 7:56:27 PM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: Vince Ferrer
My understanding is that, in general, a singularity is just a region of spacetime that you can't get any information out of or into. You can't make any predictions or draw any conclusions or inferences about what's there. Our models break down.

So there is the technological singularity a la Kurzweil. In math, it's a function that goes to infinity and you can't do anything with it at that point. In physics, the only kind of singularities I can think of are stellar black holes, supermassive black holes and universes in some kind of giant multiverse.

IMO, when we're talking about all the mass of our universe being compressed into an infinitely dense black hole, we're talking about something that is many, many orders of magnitude more massive than a regular black hole and may therefore, perhaps, be a totally different kind of creature, as we've seen so many times before in physics when our focus changes by many orders of magnitude. Just my two cents; I'm definitely no physicist!

22 posted on 09/19/2013 7:58:43 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

What? No Way! Leave the Big Bang Theory alone!. We would miss Sheldon, Leonard, Howard, Raj, and Penny...


23 posted on 09/19/2013 8:08:13 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2016; I pray we make it that long.)
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To: LibWhacker

Yet another theory that will no doubt be knocked down by other physicists within 2 months. These things pop up more than Japanese porn sites on an unsecure computer. Loop quantum gravity models, oscillating models, etc.

It seems to be a contest to see who can come up with the most bizarre way of refuting an absolute beginning to the universe. A four dimensional star collapsing? What is this, Twilight Zone?


24 posted on 09/19/2013 8:09:31 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: MeshugeMikey

Nothing comes from nothing...ever


If you believe evolution then:

Rocks + heat + billions of years = humans

Something from nothing, if you believe evolution


25 posted on 09/19/2013 8:22:56 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Government: Slimy used car salesmen writing laws forcing you to buy their cars)
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To: Personal Responsibility

Gas+Billions of Years= The Democrat Party


26 posted on 09/19/2013 8:25:09 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Un-Documented Journalist / Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Nothing causes nothing to come into existence. Causeless effects?

And yet no energy or matter Law of Conservation of Energy points to neither being destroyed.. nor created. They can only be transformed from one state to another.

So maybe the black hole idea is not too far fetched and should be more carefully investigated before being dismissed as "bunk" opr junk or what ever you called it.

People spent time in prison or excommunicated for odd ball thoughts like the universe does not revolve around the earth... silly huh?
27 posted on 09/19/2013 8:27:05 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS... We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? The Dems care!)
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To: LibWhacker

But I thought the science was settled and there was consensus?


28 posted on 09/19/2013 8:34:20 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: LibWhacker
Humans obviously weren't around at the time the universe began.

And God's not talking...

29 posted on 09/19/2013 8:59:36 PM PDT by TheDon (Inside Every Liberal is a Totalitarian Screaming to Get Out.)
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To: LibWhacker

Interesting.


30 posted on 09/19/2013 9:34:18 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Cicero
Where did the four-dimensional star and the black hole come from?

From the collapse of the five dimensional star?

Just like the Hindu model of the cosmos, the universe is a sphere riding on the back of a giant tortoise. Which in turn is riding on the back of a still larger tortoise, and so on ad infinitum.

Like the old guru said, "it's tortoises all the way to the bottom!"

Regards,
GtG

PS The large fleas have smaller fleas upon their backs to bitem.
     The smaller fleas, still smaller fleas and so ad infinitum.

31 posted on 09/19/2013 9:41:29 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: MeshugeMikey
in the so called natural world...Nothing comes from nothing...ever

Not if nothing is something. Matter and antimatter react by being something dissolving into "nothing." So what is the nothing made of?

32 posted on 09/20/2013 7:26:45 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

no thing


33 posted on 09/20/2013 7:27:30 AM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Un-Documented Journalist / Block Captain..Tyranny Response Team)
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To: 6SJ7; AdmSmith; AFPhys; Arkinsaw; allmost; aristotleman; autumnraine; backwoods-engineer; ...

Nice pix! Thanks LibWhacker.

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34 posted on 09/21/2013 10:52:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: Nowhere Man

I do too, but it was a science fiction story. Been a long time, and I forget which one.


35 posted on 09/22/2013 6:58:41 AM PDT by TheOldLady
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