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World's oldest temple built to worship the dog star
New Scientist ^ | Friday, August 16, 2013 | Anil Ananthaswamy

Posted on 08/17/2013 4:28:29 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

Magli simulated what the sky would have looked like from Turkey when Göbekli Tepe was built. Over millennia, the positions of the stars change due to Earth wobbling as it spins on its axis. Stars that are near the horizon will rise and set at different points, and they can even disappear completely, only to reappear thousands of years later.

Today, Sirius can be seen almost worldwide as the brightest star in the sky -- excluding the sun -- and the fourth brightest night-sky object after the moon, Venus and Jupiter. Sirius is so noticeable that its rising and setting was used as the basis for the ancient Egyptian calendar, says Magli. At the latitude of Göbekli Tepe, Sirius would have been below the horizon until around 9300 BC, when it would have suddenly popped into view...

Using existing maps of Göbekli Tepe and satellite images of the region, Magli drew an imaginary line running between and parallel to the two megaliths inside each enclosure. Three of the excavated rings seem to be aligned with the points on the horizon where Sirius would have risen in 9100 BC, 8750 BC and 8300 BC, respectively (arxiv.org/abs/1307.8397).

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: anatolia; archaeoastronomy; archaeology; astronomy; catalhoyuk; catalhuyuk; gobeklitepe; godsgravesglyphs; jupiter; megaliths; moon; sanliurfa; sirius; thisissirius; turkey; venus
The 11,000-year-old site consists of a series of at least 20 circular enclosures, although only a few have been uncovered since excavations began in the mid-1990s. Each one is surrounded by a ring of huge, T-shaped stone pillars, some of which are decorated with carvings of fierce animals. Two more megaliths stand parallel to each other at the centre of each ring.

The 11,000-year-old site consists of a series of at least 20 circular enclosures, although only a few have been uncovered since excavations began in the mid-1990s. Each one is surrounded by a ring of huge, T-shaped stone pillars, some of which are decorated with carvings of fierce animals. Two more megaliths stand parallel to each other at the centre of each ring

1 posted on 08/17/2013 4:28:30 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
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Gobekli Tepe Constellations
Frontiers of Anthropology | 7-16-2013
Posted on 08/04/2013 6:12:23 PM PDT by Renfield
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3051119/posts


2 posted on 08/17/2013 4:29:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: Renfield; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

3 posted on 08/17/2013 4:29:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Siriusly?


4 posted on 08/17/2013 4:34:04 AM PDT by Past Your Eyes (You can't force people to care. Sometimes I don't myself.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Not to denigrate this in any way whatsoever, but that Ancient Aliens guy and the rest of the pseudoscientists on his show go on quite a bit about Sirius being a focus of worship/special attention by ancient peoples on many of their episodes.


5 posted on 08/17/2013 4:37:40 AM PDT by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I am amazed at what astute astronomers some ancient people were.

When my husband and I visited the Mayan ruins of Tulum on the Yucatan peninsula a few years ago, we learned that the whole village of Tulum was built to be a calendar (as well as to fulfill a few other functions).

With our modern instruments, we no longer need to build to highlight celestial features. We may have lost some creativity as a result.


6 posted on 08/17/2013 4:39:22 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: SunkenCiv

How noticeable would it have been when it first came into view? It would have barely cleared the horizon before setting a few degrees away. An interesting coincidence has been noted and seized upon, I think.


7 posted on 08/17/2013 4:40:20 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
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To: SunkenCiv

Sirius is Hugh.


8 posted on 08/17/2013 5:08:40 AM PDT by left that other site (You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
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To: SunkenCiv

My urban friends are always amazed by by what I know about the night sky and the universe. What I know is just the basics. I am not even an “amateur” astronomer as most of those are defined. But I DO go outside at night and look around. I DO get up before dawn and note interesting things in the sky, the stars and the position of the moon and sun on the horizon. Planet movements are very obvious.

This stuff isn’t truly that hard. Aliens and geniuses are not required. This is why we see these sorts of temples, sky calendars and sun markers spread through many ancient peoples all over the planet. It’s neat and impressive nonetheless.

Thanks for this post.

Oldplayer


9 posted on 08/17/2013 5:12:59 AM PDT by oldplayer
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To: SunkenCiv
I don't understand why so many cultures seemed to have an obsessive need to study the night sky. Once you get past figuring out solstices and equinoxes, what did they gain by putting so much time and effort into studying the stars?

I guess if you think stars control an individual's destiny, there would be a clientele for this type of information, but it seems to me, it takes so many years of careful study to figure out the various cycles that can be observed. Precession of the equinoxes, for example, takes 26,000 years to complete a single cycle - how did they figure that out without direct observation over hundreds or thousands of years? If you understand the mechanics of planetary motion I could see how one could predict that the constellation of Leo will rise at the vernal equinox at such-and-such a time, but how do you make that prediction if you don't (and these ancient people supposedly didn't) unless you have thousands of years of observation to refer to?

10 posted on 08/17/2013 5:17:35 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting!


11 posted on 08/17/2013 5:27:33 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: SunkenCiv

The monoliths at Gobekli Tepe are some 12,000+ years old. The relief carvings are so well done, it makes one stop and think just what tools were those ancients using. Was this a remnant of some anti-deluvian culture?

12 posted on 08/17/2013 5:33:32 AM PDT by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: SunkenCiv; Salamander; JoeProBono; Joe 6-pack
Dog Star?


13 posted on 08/17/2013 5:34:23 AM PDT by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: shibumi

14 posted on 08/17/2013 5:48:25 AM PDT by JoeProBono (Mille vocibus imago valet;-{)
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To: Flag_This

Atop one Minerett on a typical Mosque you’ll see the crescent moon & a star. Symbol for allah & his daughters honored?


15 posted on 08/17/2013 5:50:28 AM PDT by existentially_kuffer
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To: Flick Lives

anti-deluvians? They were opposed to the flood? (Just funnin’ with ya. Of course, you meant ante-deluvians.)


16 posted on 08/17/2013 5:51:43 AM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: Flag_This

No TV.


17 posted on 08/17/2013 5:53:19 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: exDemMom
With our modern instruments, we no longer need to build to highlight celestial features. We may have lost some creativity as a result.

We specialized, and lost track of the world around us as a result. We wait for someone else to tell us it is going to rain, instead of check the sky, the flies, tree leaves turning over, or the way smoke rolls downwind. Most (first world) people don't pay any attention at all now. The ancients had to--their lives and livelihoods depended on it.

18 posted on 08/17/2013 6:09:00 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: arthurus

No, it was very noticeable because it was part of a constellation. This has been written about in an excellent book, “Hamlet’s Mill”.


19 posted on 08/17/2013 6:12:17 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Flag_This

They did have thousands of years of observation, and the information was vital to daily life. I recommend the book “Hamlet’s Mill”. The ancients knew more than we can even imagine.


20 posted on 08/17/2013 6:16:19 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

I read Hamlet’s Mill several years ago. I agree with your statement about the knowledge of people in the past.


21 posted on 08/17/2013 6:21:22 AM PDT by Flag_This (Term limits.)
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To: dangus

They were for it before they were against it. :)


22 posted on 08/17/2013 6:36:34 AM PDT by dinodino
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To: Flag_This

I don’t understand why so many cultures seemed to have an obsessive need to study the night sky. Once you get past figuring out solstices and equinoxes, what did they gain by putting so much time and effort into studying the stars?


They had no tv to distract them. Man looks for patterns and the sky was the only thing to watch. They weren’t stupid people back then, Some like to think we are so superior and evolved from what they were.


23 posted on 08/17/2013 6:38:45 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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To: Flag_This

Stars were studied for navigational purposes. Navigating over a desert is a lot like navigation on the ocean.


24 posted on 08/17/2013 6:40:54 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Flag_This
If you saw lights in the sky constantly changing and had no clue what they were, you wouldn’t try to study them? Study of space is as old as humanity itself and many cultures charted stars for generations. We do the same today with UFOs.

luckily for us, many people are more curious than others...

25 posted on 08/17/2013 6:45:31 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: Flag_This

Also most desert cultures traveled at night due to the intense heat of day. They spent a lot of time at night navigating etc. stars were just there all the time. Have you ever been in the desert on a clear night?


26 posted on 08/17/2013 6:48:08 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: arthurus

“How noticeable would it have been when it first came into view?”

That’s a good question. Due to precessional effects, my initial research shows that it’s actually pretty damn impressive. Very bright, just over the horizon at 9500 BC, but I need to check more closely the coordinates


27 posted on 08/17/2013 6:54:59 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Flag_This

“how did they figure that out without direct observation over hundreds or thousands of years?”

The interesting thing is that back in 9100 BC - which is how they arrived at this date - Sirius barely clears the horizon at Gozeli Tepe. Prior to 9100 BC, the precession of the equinoxes is so significant that Sirius actually does not rise over the horizon at Gozeli Tepe. Today, Orion would rise as much East as South - back then it would rise due South.

If a totally new star that was unfamiliar to you and to the society suddenly appeared just over the horizon - this would be a significant event. Especially with it being so bright, even on the horizon.


28 posted on 08/17/2013 7:25:19 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: arthurus

Earliest rise of Sirius then would be around August 15th, rising at about 6am. Almost due south.

Today its the 7th. The location has moved from due South to ESE.


29 posted on 08/17/2013 7:35:44 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: SunkenCiv

If they found Sirius in the northern sky that would be reason enough to build a temple.


30 posted on 08/17/2013 8:02:53 AM PDT by lneisone
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To: JCBreckenridge
"If a totally new star that was unfamiliar to you and to the society suddenly appeared just over the horizon - this would be a significant event. Especially with it being so bright, even on the horizon."

For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the book, but it starts out with a cry echoing across the Andes because a star that was supposed to rise didn't.

31 posted on 08/17/2013 8:41:15 AM PDT by Flag_This (Term limits.)
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To: varyouga
"Study of space is as old as humanity itself and many cultures charted stars for generations...luckily for us, many people are more curious than others... "

I'm not talking about satisfying a "curiosity" and the length of time I'm talking about would take far more than a few generations (try a hundred). One precessional "age" lasts about 2100 years and it takes 26000 years for all the zodiacal constellations to cycle through the vernal equinox. Other than the Egyptians, there are no known civilizations that lasted more than what, a thousand years, maybe? And even the ancient Egyptians had all kinds of societal upheavals that wiped out great chunks of their learning. So, absent thousands of years of continuous, recorded, direct observation, or a firm understanding of planetary mechanics (which they supposedly did not have), how did the ancients accomplish what they did?

32 posted on 08/17/2013 9:20:38 AM PDT by Flag_This (Term limits.)
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To: shibumi

And don’t forget my dog, fixed and consequent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOPpa0TMHaA


33 posted on 08/17/2013 9:49:09 AM PDT by Salamander (Can't sleep...the clowns will eat me.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Don’t remember the name of the show on Discovery or Ancient Aliens or whateve, but the subject was the Sphinx and its relation to a star or constellation.

An archeologist/astronomer was making the argument that the physical characteristics of the Sphinx, specifically the evidence of water erosion had to date the massive statue to at least 10,000 years earlier than any of the later Egyptian pharoahs.

He made the argument that the statue’s alignment was toward some star or constellation that was in the Eastern sky at that earlier time. Lion constellation?

As you can see, I don’t remember all the facts exactly, but it was a very interesting program—and the argument about evidence of water erosion seemed persuasive.


34 posted on 08/17/2013 12:08:50 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: SunkenCiv
This is serious...


35 posted on 08/17/2013 12:12:33 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Flag_This

Well, I did not know that Sirius was not visible at this latitude for a period of nearly a thousand years. Then it reappeared around 9100 for a very short period. I think that would leave an impression on the society at the time!


36 posted on 08/17/2013 1:30:11 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: wildbill

There is good evidence that the Sphinx temple, the Sphinx and the Causeway were built upon by the Pyramids.


37 posted on 08/17/2013 1:31:39 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: PeterPrinciple; SunkenCiv
Right,...and they did some things that are totally amazing...

I am still working on the Thread that talks about the Giant Limestone block quarried and used an a very ancient building at Baalbek....

And there seems to be evidence that the Egypt Pyramid builders had Machines and material ...that have not be understood as of yet

The Monumental Baalbek – The largest building blocks on Earth

The Large Stones are 14 X 14 x 68 feet.

******************************************

And see post #11 on the thread for links regarding the Mound Builders in North America.

38 posted on 08/17/2013 3:20:09 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: JCBreckenridge

Due south from Göbekli Tepe? You mean, like, pointed at mecca?


39 posted on 08/17/2013 3:55:11 PM PDT by null and void (Frequent terrorist attacks OR endless government snooping and oppression? We can have both!)
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To: null and void

Yes, some 9100 years prior to Christ... very long ago.


40 posted on 08/17/2013 4:05:05 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: JCBreckenridge

What is amazing to me is that they were able to do this so long ago, just barely after coming out of the hunter/gatherer stage of things (about 1000 years earlier??). Although I suppose with the growing of crops, the knowledge of seasons and time became much more important to them.

BTW - all of this development (agriculture, communities, large structures, etc.) was possible due to Global Warming.


41 posted on 08/17/2013 4:19:03 PM PDT by 21twelve ("We've got the guns, and we got the numbers" adapted and revised from Jim M.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Satan foreshadows, echos and mocks...


42 posted on 08/17/2013 4:47:13 PM PDT by null and void (Frequent terrorist attacks OR endless government snooping and oppression? We can have both!)
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To: 21twelve

We know precious little of the age and their capabilities. I believe the research in this thread here is original. 9100 BC appears to herald the first rising of Sirius in more than 800 years over this particular area. The Long Year appears to be well understood by the Egyptians and Babylonians after so it does not seem to be a coincidence that this temple was built to herald the occasion.


43 posted on 08/17/2013 5:45:18 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge
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To: Flag_This

In the days before TV or books and when artificial light was either unreliable or very expensive, the nighttime “show” was in the sky. And there is lots to see with no urban light pollution.


44 posted on 08/19/2013 4:48:12 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: existentially_kuffer

Exactly. Pre-islamic Arab pagans worshipped the Moon God & daughters of Allah—Allat, Uzza, and Manat.


45 posted on 11/16/2013 6:12:57 AM PST by existentially_kuffer
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