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Vanity: What is the gunshow loophole?
vanity | 06/18/13 | self

Posted on 06/18/2013 9:08:35 AM PDT by Sherman Logan

I continuously see claims that "we must close the gunshow loophole" in the MSM. But on FR most people seem to assume there is no such loophole.

I've tried to research exactly what this loophole is supposed to be, but one side seems to take its existence as self-evident and therefore needing no definition, and the other as an equally obvious negative.

I would really appreciate an explanation of what this loophole is supposed to be, and perhaps of why it isn't one.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; gunshow; loophole; secondamendment
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Thanks.
1 posted on 06/18/2013 9:08:35 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

If I can add to your post, a caller on talk radio’s John Gibson show yesterday said someone could easily go on the internet and buy guns. Is this true?


2 posted on 06/18/2013 9:11:14 AM PDT by killermosquito (Buffalo, Detroit (and eventually France) is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Two private citizens can transfer a gun from one to the other without notifying the feral government.

Sometimes such a transaction might take place at a guns show, ergo the term "gun show loophole."

3 posted on 06/18/2013 9:12:13 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (People with religious faith in government are far crazier than people with religious faith in God.)
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To: killermosquito
If I can add to your post, a caller on talk radio’s John Gibson show yesterday said someone could easily go on the internet and buy guns. Is this true?

Yes, as long as you have the gun delivered to an FFL dealer, who will charge $15-$35 for the service.

4 posted on 06/18/2013 9:13:19 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (People with religious faith in government are far crazier than people with religious faith in God.)
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To: killermosquito

Pretty certain that you must have the firearm delivered to a local gun dealer and pick up there. The seller can’t deliver it directly to your home.


5 posted on 06/18/2013 9:14:20 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: Sherman Logan

The so-called “Gun Show Loophole” is a term coined by liberal anti-gun folks to describe private transactions. If a dealer sells a gun at a gun show, or in his storefront, the purchaser must have a background check approved in order to purchase the firearm. However, if two private individuals, who are not federally licensed dealers, engage in a private sale of a firearm, no background check is required, whether it takes place at a gun show or not.

Pro gun folks like myself, are generally alright with requiring licensed dealers to require background checks, because the government issues the FFL and can require a background check. However, we are generally against the government requiring private individuals to have a background check in order to sell a firearm.


6 posted on 06/18/2013 9:14:26 AM PDT by Bell407Pilot
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To: Sherman Logan

Basically,

Gun Show Loophole = your right to dispose of your private property as you wish.

Citizens don’t need permission from government to sell their own guns, whether they are at their home or at a gun show. Licensees do.


7 posted on 06/18/2013 9:14:43 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (I'm not racist - I hate Biden too!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

In other words there is no loophole. If they are dealers, you have to do the normal check. If they are individuals, you don’t just the same as buying one from your neighbor. If you purchase a gun off the internet, it must be shipped to an FFL dealer, and you of course fill out the same forms and are subject to the same instant check. I get tired of the idiots talking about a gun show loophole, and that you can just order guns off the internet “no questions asked”. It’s utter BS. I’ve done all the above, on both sides of the counter, too.


8 posted on 06/18/2013 9:15:29 AM PDT by nobamanomore
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To: Sherman Logan
The anti-gunners have created the statment by pretending that an exchange between private parties (legal in most states if both parties are residents)is an “unregulated” exhange AND that that is the only type of tranfer that happens at gun shows. There is a lot of data that says that these types of sales are very small number compared to the number of ones by dealers that require a background check. Also, it is incumbant on the seller (by federal law) to “know” the buyer and to have soem verification that they are a resdient of the sate they are in. Here in Nevada we get many people from Kalifonia trying to buy guns at shows as a private party transfer. That is an illegal tranfers if it happens.
9 posted on 06/18/2013 9:16:30 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Sherman Logan

Oh, come on.......there is on loop hole.
It’s just like when “the enlightened” say tax loop holes, when they are legal tax deductions.
Liberals know nothing about weapons, or their purchase.


10 posted on 06/18/2013 9:16:40 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: Sherman Logan
According to the left, the "loophole" could be anything they want it to be. My take is, they suggest gun sales occur at these shows without background checks. We on the right know that in order to sell guns at gun shows, an FFL is required. And if you have an FFL, you must do the background check.

That said, PRIVATE individuals also attend gun shows. If two private citizens get together and want to have a private exchange, no background check is performed. The Left sees this as a problem.

11 posted on 06/18/2013 9:17:48 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; Sherman Logan

Correct, it is the private transfer.

I would add that laws designed to “close the loophole” make it a felony to loan a weapon, have someone keep a weapon for you, etc. without going through a federal firearms dealer ($25-50 fee) on both ends of the transaction.

In fact, if I have firearm in my truck and loan the truck to my brother without removing the firearm, one or both of us would be guilty of a felony, per the new proposed law.

If my brother wanted to leave his pistol at my house, while he ran onto the local Naval Base (gun free zone), that would be a felony. If you and I went skeet shooting and you forgot one of your shotguns under my backseat, that would be a felony. If my father gave me the first rifle I killed a deer with, and we didn’t go through an FFL, it would be a felony.

That is the full extent of “fixing” the gun show loophole.


12 posted on 06/18/2013 9:20:07 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: killermosquito
If I can add to your post, a caller on talk radio’s John Gibson show yesterday said someone could easily go on the internet and buy guns. Is this true?

If it is a person-to-person transfer, it's not any different than answering an ad in the paper, or buying from a friend/neighbor.

But, if you are shipping across state lines, it must be shipped to an FFL holder, who performs the same steps as a retail sale.

13 posted on 06/18/2013 9:20:57 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; killermosquito
Yes, as long as you have the gun delivered to an FFL dealer, who will charge $15-$35 for the service.

And complete the background check, and observe all waiting periods, before pick up.

14 posted on 06/18/2013 9:21:58 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Sherman Logan

It is the “loophole” that allows private citizens to sell firearms to each other without going through a government approved background check. Currently after a private citizen sells a firearm to another citizen, there is no way to track who owns it. This really pisses off liberals.


15 posted on 06/18/2013 9:22:13 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal and WOD defender is a totalitarian screaming to get out.)
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To: killermosquito

Not really. If you go to any of the major sites, they require an FFL.

If you go to craigslist (assuming they allow gun sales; I don’t know) and arrange a person-to-person purchase, depending on your state there is no FFL required.


16 posted on 06/18/2013 9:22:53 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: Sherman Logan

It’s like saying that because you can sell your used car to another person without being a car dealer that there is a parking lot loophole


17 posted on 06/18/2013 9:23:28 AM PDT by CrazyIvan (Obama's birth certificate was found stapled to Soros's receilpt.)
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To: killermosquito

Yes, you can go on the Internet and purchase a firearm. If the firearm is in another state you MUST ship it through a FFL dealer where you will go through a background check.


18 posted on 06/18/2013 9:23:43 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal and WOD defender is a totalitarian screaming to get out.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“This really pisses off liberals.”

Pisses off “statists,” you mean. Plenty of RINOs like this idea, too.

Can’t have the population being able to rise up too easily.


19 posted on 06/18/2013 9:23:52 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: killermosquito

My last gun purchase:

Bid on the gun on Gunbroker (Ebay for guns) and won it.

Called the seller. Told him the name of the establishment (pawn shop) I would be using to transfer the gun (required).

Went to the post office and got a money order and mailed it to the seller.

Called the pawn shop with the sellers fax number and asked them to fax a copy of their FFL to the seller with my name and the name of the gun on it.

Several days passed. Called the seller for confirmation of receipt of payment and the pawn shop’s fax.

Seller shipped the gun to the pawn shop.

Several more days passed. The pawn shop called me to tell me that the gun had arrived.

I went to the pawn shop, where I had to present ID, fill out a form 4473 declaring that I wasn’t a felon and was eligible to receive a firearm. Waited while the pawn shop rep called NICs (National Criminal Instant Check System) and read them the info on the form. Once the check came back with “proceed”, I paid the pawn shop the fee that they charge me to transfer the gun ($15.00) and took possession of the gun.

It is not trivial to buy a gun on the internet.

All of this is the minimum required by law.


20 posted on 06/18/2013 9:23:57 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (I'm not racist - I hate Biden too!)
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