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Sick liberals exploit Elizabeth Smartís rape and kidnapping to demonize abstinence education
Live Action ^ | Calvin Freiburger

Posted on 05/10/2013 8:17:31 PM PDT by Morgana

Elizabeth SmartIn 2002, the kidnapping of 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart captured the nation’s attention. Rescued nine months later, Smart had been held prisoner and raped by Brian David Mitchell, who is currently serving a richly-deserved life sentence. Today, Smart is a 25-year-old author, advocate for child-protection laws, and missing persons commentator for ABC News.

Last Wednesday, Smart spoke at a Johns Hopkins University forum on human trafficking. She discussed her mindset while in captivity, the following excerpt of which has been picked up by numerous liberal commentators:

I remember in school one time, I had a teacher who was talking about, well, about abstinence, and she said, “imagine that you’re a stick of gum, and when you engage in sex, that’s like getting chewed, and if you do that lots of times, you’re gonna become an old piece of gum! And who’s going to want you after that?” Well, that’s terrible, but nobody should ever say that, but for me, I felt, oh my gosh, I’m that chewed-up piece of gum! Nobody re-chews a piece of gum. You throw it away. And that’s how easy it is to feel you no longer have worth, you no longer have value. Why would it even be worth screaming out, why would it even make a difference if you are rescued, your life still has no value.

Slate, the Huffington Post, Gawker, ThinkProgress, and MSNBC all have pieces up with headlines depicting Smart as saying abstinence education itself made her feel worthless and demoralized her away from trying to escape earlier. Liberals have a long, ghoulish record of hijacking victims to shame their enemies and emotionally blackmail people into adopting their policies, and this case is especially egregious because the victim in question said no such thing.

Certainly, Smart says the remarks of one particular teacher, whose “who’s going to want you?” dismissal to teenage girls seems lacking in Christian compassion, played a role. But while I do not presume to know her views on the general subject, Smart’s speech does not blame abstinence education itself, or the general principle of abstinence.

A bit earlier, she mentions being “raised in a very religious household, one was taught that sex was something special that only happened between a husband and a wife who loved each other,” which she was “determined to follow.” And near the beginning of her speech, she makes clear that, also while in captivity, she realized that her parents’ strong belief in abstinence wouldn’t make them value her any less:

I remember on that first day of being kidnapped and raped, I remember thinking of my parents, and after realizing that they would still love me, that just because I’d been chained, just because I’d been kidnapped, just because all these things had happened to me, that wouldn’t change their love.

Why would they? Generally, Christians are far more understanding toward those who fall for sexual temptation than we’re given credit for, but here we needn’t even go that far. Being raped is not giving in to temptation. It’s not consensual sex. It’s not promiscuity. It’s not you making light of the sacred or wasting God’s gifts. Rape is a foul, violent crime for which the victim bears no fault, and the only “Christians” who think otherwise either reside in some isolated fringe of no practical significance or exist within liberals’ slanderous imaginations.

It’s true that rape can lead to all sorts of doubts about one’s sexuality and self-worth, and it’s not implausible that those effects could be heightened for people with a religious attachment to their virginity. But it’s preposterous to suggest that valuing your virginity and wanting to save yourself for one special person are therefore intrinsically destructive beliefs, and it’s a stretch to suggest that the phenomenon is unique among conservatively religious victims – feelings of guilt and lost self-esteem are commonly reported reactions, and are routinely cited as part of what makes rape such a horrible thing to do to anyone, not just one particular subset.

Think of it this way: as disappointed as religious parents would be to learn their teenager has been sexually active, they’d be far more troubled to learn he or she had killed someone or stolen something. Does that mean they would look down on their child for shooting an attacker in self-defense, or stealing bread and water to save a starving person? No. The prospect is absurd for the same reason expecting them to think any less of a raped daughter would be absurd: having principles doesn’t mean we’re idiots who can’t understand the concept of facts and circumstances.

Well-intentioned and well-adjusted people do not stoop this low to demonize people and ideas they disagree with. Would it be too much to ask any of the abstinence critics in our audience what the real motive is?


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: 2014election; 2016election; abortion; abstinence; deathpanels; election2014; election2016; moralabsolutes; obamacare; partisanmediashill; partisanmediashills; prolife; rape; virginity; zerocare
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This is low even for libs.
1 posted on 05/10/2013 8:17:31 PM PDT by Morgana
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To: Morgana

Elizabeth Smart is a trillion times better than all those vulgar, worthless people combined, plus she is now a happily married woman!


2 posted on 05/10/2013 8:23:44 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Morgana

I know that if I say this everyone will hate me, but from day one, I never believed that she was kidnapped. The details of the story don’t add up.


3 posted on 05/10/2013 8:27:19 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Morgana

The Blood of our Lord cleanses all.

Those who avail themselves of this Redemption are pure as the driven snow.

Of this, there is no doubt.


4 posted on 05/10/2013 8:27:33 PM PDT by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
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To: onyx

I heard her speak a few months ago. She is still a little girl in a lot of ways. But the way she has learned to tell the story is very interesting.


5 posted on 05/10/2013 8:30:20 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: kabumpo

I have heard the story from her mow. You are an idiot.


6 posted on 05/10/2013 8:31:27 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Morgana

Rape and sex slavery is just about the lowest we as humans go, short of a Holocaust. I just heard a sermon...think of your lust for ice cream. Think of sneaking at night into in an ice cream parlor and take that last tub cookie dough and steal a few scoops out and leave the rest. A five year old girl arrives the next day to take that last tub for her birthday party. She gets home and opens it only to find it eaten already -YUCK! How would you feel if this was you? It isn’t what you are, but what happen to you.


7 posted on 05/10/2013 8:36:32 PM PDT by endthematrix (The Name of the Game is BAILOUT.)
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To: Morgana

She appears to be a fine young woman, and does not deserve liberal attacks.


8 posted on 05/10/2013 8:37:02 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: Hildy

You’re very fortunate!
I’d LOVE to see her in person.
I think the world of Elizabeth Smart.
I prayed daily for her and somehow just knew, she would be found.


9 posted on 05/10/2013 8:38:08 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: kabumpo

Why would anyone hate you for a differing opinion.
I would agree there is something not being told but she appears to a fine young woman.


10 posted on 05/10/2013 8:38:24 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: kabumpo

I forgot to say her father is really creepy.


11 posted on 05/10/2013 8:38:51 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: kabumpo
I know that if I say this everyone will hate me, but from day one, I never believed that she was kidnapped. The details of the story don’t add up.

I don't know that everyone will hate you.

But for sure, almost everyone will recognize you as an idiot.

12 posted on 05/10/2013 8:39:25 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: svcw; kabumpo

“I forgot to say her father is really creepy.”

I got that feeling too. However I have to believe no 14 year old would go off with some smelly old guy if she was in her right mind.


13 posted on 05/10/2013 8:44:46 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Hildy

You are arguing like a Dem - name calling, which leads me to conclude that just like them, you have no argument.


14 posted on 05/10/2013 8:57:45 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: svcw

See Hildy below, about who would hate me for having a diferent opinion.
When facts don’t make sense, everything must be questioned. Seeming to be ”a fine young woman” is not germane to this point.


15 posted on 05/10/2013 9:01:34 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: meadsjn

Why? Because the account of how she was kidnapped makes no sense? Have you actually read it? Have you seen footage of the house and the window from which she was allegedly abducted?


16 posted on 05/10/2013 9:05:01 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

Didn’t he break in a window but take her out a door? At least is how I remember it.


17 posted on 05/10/2013 9:08:42 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Morgana

Hello, they were Mormons, which means they were already nutty. The weird guy was in their home - the father had hired him. Teenaged girls are very impressionable, especially over-protected girls who are emotionally twelve.


18 posted on 05/10/2013 9:10:05 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

It was my understanding that because they were Mormons they gave this transient a job at their home. Because of the type of job he had he figured out which window to break into, and how. I believe he was working on their roof? He came in during the night and woke Liz up. Actually both girls woke up but he told the other to remain silent. Liz got her shoes on and he took her out the door while threatening to kill her sis and parents.

I admire her parents for tying to give that type of person employment but had it been me I’d have hired a licensed contractor.


19 posted on 05/10/2013 9:14:28 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Morgana

No, what I saw on tv was that she was taken down a ladder.
But even if the was taken out the door, why didn’t the younger sister, who shared her room, rouse the house once the bad man with the knife was out of the room?


20 posted on 05/10/2013 9:15:17 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Morgana

Well, yes, I wouldn’t have a man like that around my daughters.
Still doesn’t make sense that the younger sister didn’t run to wake the parents the minute the guy was gone.


21 posted on 05/10/2013 9:19:12 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

That I can’t understand. From all news accounts the sister was scared. Had it been me I would have been running in the house screaming with hysterics to get my parents. Now that I think of it, there are two of them in the room what if both of them had raised a raucous when they realized he was there? Nothing like two pre-teen or even teen girls shrieking to raise the dead, deafen the ears and break glass in most cases.

So one has to wonder why did they not scream?


22 posted on 05/10/2013 9:30:37 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Morgana

Exactly my point. It was an elopement, not a kidnapping, and the younger sister was complicit.


23 posted on 05/10/2013 9:46:33 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Morgana

Lib acquaintance posted this on FB. They’re overjoyed that she’s speaking against abstinence education. The fact is that she would have felt worthless simply due to the fact that this old bum made her into an object for his sexual perversion. Just because she was unable to save herself for marriage, through no fault of her own, doesn’t mean parents should not encourage abstinence in their children. Are we supposed to encourage early sex so in case a girl gets raped she won’t feel so bad? If her mother had put her on the pill at age 12 and encouraged sexual experimentation with her classmates, she still would have felt dirty after being raped by this bum. It’s not she who is dirty, it is what was done to her.


24 posted on 05/10/2013 9:48:10 PM PDT by informavoracious (We're being "punished" with Stanley Ann's baby.)
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To: kabumpo

Even if it was an “elopement” in her eyes it’s still a kidnapping because she was only what? 14? Plus I still find it hard to believe she’d run off with that smelly bum. She must have been very desperate. I’ve know teen girls to do stupid things but this stupid? Plus how stupid was the sister that she went along with the plan? They were against their parents that much?


25 posted on 05/10/2013 10:00:02 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Morgana

Have you read ”A High Wind in Jamaica”?
And yes, I know that legally it was a kidnapping, but she cooperated. He seduced her via religion - she thought.he was a saint.


26 posted on 05/10/2013 10:03:00 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

Never heard of it. I see your point about the facts of this case though. I just can’t imagine how bad Liz’s life could be that she’d run off with a bum.

What do you know of her life before she left? Don’t just say “Nutty Mormons” that is too vague, besides I know a lot of “Nutty religious people”. I need details.


27 posted on 05/10/2013 10:08:29 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Morgana; kabumpo

I HATE misinformation and
kabumpo is spreading it!

Her mother hired him.

Mary Katherine was only 7 years old and too scared to scream!!!

It was a kidnapping.

Sheeesh!


28 posted on 05/10/2013 10:32:54 PM PDT by onyx
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To: kabumpo
Exactly my point. It was an elopement, not a kidnapping, and the younger sister was complicit.

Now you are just dumber than a bag of hammers.

29 posted on 05/10/2013 11:00:34 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: kabumpo

But the problem with your opinion is you and the rest of us don’t really have the true story. Just a lot of media opinions up until she spoke herself....and based on her experience, I am sure much is not talked about by her.


30 posted on 05/10/2013 11:02:06 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: kabumpo
Here ya go: Wikipedia's account of the abduction, search, the trials, endless media links, etc.; fairly well edited to show most of the sordid details of the case that pervaded the daily news and conversations of this valley for the past ten years.

Start here, follow all the links, read all the linked articles, and come back to discuss this case in about twenty years.

31 posted on 05/10/2013 11:16:58 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Morgana

The book is a classic. I recommend that you read it if you want to know about how not innocent children can be.


32 posted on 05/10/2013 11:53:20 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: onyx

It doesn’t matter which foolish parent hired him.
It doesn’t make sense that the younger one was ”too scared to scream” for the next several hours.


33 posted on 05/10/2013 11:56:03 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

>> I never believed that she was kidnapped.

Any willingness she had is irrelevant legally and psychologically.

What you think you’re framing as clinical objectivity is in reality naive conjecture — no rational psychiatrist/expert would present your point on a public forum without a battery of qualified scientific and medical references. In other words, give it up.


34 posted on 05/11/2013 12:09:25 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: meadsjn

I read it, but it is very fuzzy on the details of the break-in and the abduction, doesn’t describe the house, that the bedroom was at least two if not three storeys up, that he used a ladder.

Doesn’t add up.


35 posted on 05/11/2013 1:04:38 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: One Name
The Blood of our Lord cleanses all. Those who avail themselves of this Redemption are pure as the driven snow. Of this, there is no doubt.

Amen! He has made us justified and worthy despite our failings. We are as Saints in His eyes. He IS!

36 posted on 05/11/2013 4:39:53 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: onyx

Onyx I just can’t for the life of me figure out why those two did not scream. I have worked with girls that age at a summer camp. A boy comes in their group and boy (no pun intended) do they scream! With girls all it takes is for one to scream and they all join in the chorus. Trust me at age 7 then those two should have broke the sound barrier with their screams.


37 posted on 05/11/2013 5:26:10 AM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: kabumpo
I read it, but it is very fuzzy on the details of the break-in and the abduction, doesn’t describe the house, that the bedroom was at least two if not three storeys up, that he used a ladder.
Doesn’t add up.

No, you didn't read it.

The Wikipedia write-up would tell you in the first few paragraphs, just like the initial news reports did, that Mitchell cut a screen downstairs, and entered the house through the window.

Abduction [edit] Edward and Lois Smart lived in the affluent neighborhood of Federal Heights in Salt Lake City, Utah, with their six children.[2] On the evening of June 4, 2002, the family attended an awards ceremony at Elizabeth's school. After the family returned home and got ready for bed, Ed made sure the doors were all locked, but he did not turn on the alarm. "If the children got up and moved [in the night], it would set the alarm off. And so we just said we're not going to bother with it," Lois later explained.[3]

In the early hours of the morning, Brian David Mitchell broke into the home and came to the bedroom that Elizabeth shared with her 9-year-old sister, Mary Katherine.[4] While Mary Katherine pretended to be asleep,[5] she watched the abduction,[6] and later gave these statements as to what happened:

A white man about the height of her brother Charles (5 ft 8 in)[7] about 30 or 40 years old, wearing light-colored clothes and a golf hat.[2][8] (He was actually wearing black, did not have a golf hat, and was 49.)[9]

He had dark hair, and also dark hair on his arms and on the back of his hands.[8]

The man threatened Elizabeth with a knife.[9]

When Elizabeth said "ouch" after stubbing her toe on a chair, Mitchell said something that sounded like: "You better be quiet, and I won't hurt you."[10]

She heard Elizabeth ask "Why are you doing this?" and though the answer was not clear, Mary Katherine thought the answer might have been "for ransom."[10][11]

Mitchell was soft-spoken — even polite, calm, and nicely dressed.[8]

Although Mitchell spoke to Elizabeth quietly, Mary Katherine thought Mitchell's voice seemed somehow familiar, but she couldn't pinpoint where or when she had heard it.[12]

She never got a good look at Mitchell's face.[13] This fact was kept a secret by the police during the investigation.[14]

By listening to the creaking floor as Elizabeth and Mitchell walked, Mary Katherine thought she could tell where Mitchell and Elizabeth were. So when it seemed safe, Mary Katherine hopped out of bed to tell her parents. But she froze in terror when she nearly ran into Mitchell and Elizabeth as they seemed to be looking into her brothers' bedroom.[15] Fearful that she had been spotted by the abductor, she crept back into her bed. "I thought, you know, be quiet, because if he hears you, he might take you too, and you're the only person who has seen this," Mary Katherine said in a later interview. "I was, like, shaking."[9] She hid for an undetermined amount of time. Investigators later concluded that she may have been hiding over two hours before she felt safe enough to come out.[16]

Just before 4 a.m., Mary Katherine came to her parents' bedroom and woke them up. She told them Elizabeth was gone, but her parents thought she was having a bad dream. Ed went from room to room, and didn't find her. Mary Katherine told him, "You're not going to find her. A man came and took her. He had a knife."[17] Still, the parents found this hard to believe until Lois spotted a screen window downstairs that had been cut with a knife.[18]

38 posted on 05/11/2013 5:39:00 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Morgana

Planned Parenthood (and their sex education wing SIECUS), feminazis, and socialists are AGAINST abstinence NOT because “it doesn’t work”, but because it is counter to their hedonistic “sex positive” philosophy that sees orgasm as a birthright to be enjoyed by everyone at every age with no moral judgments regardless of sex, age, relation, marital status, number, or species of partner(s).

They pick and dig with a thousand arguments but like Stalinists, they don’t really believe their own BULLSTALIN, it’s pure Alinsky, JUST WIN THE ARGUMENT. Same with the “genetic component” of homosexuality. They flat out don’t give a damn “why” the desire is there, if it exists, ACT ON IT. Doesn’t matter if it’s your own brother, your neighbor’s spouse, etc. ACT ON IT. SMASH MONOGAMY. SMASH THE PATRIARCHY.

Understand the end game. Out a liberal today.


39 posted on 05/11/2013 8:36:16 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: meadsjn

Yes, I did read it, now for the second time. It does not describe the abduction in sufficient detail, does not describe the house. I saw a news program about this at the time of the search for her that showed the house - it didn’t make sense - it was obvious to me that she had run away with him.


40 posted on 05/11/2013 9:00:54 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: trebb

If Elizabeth is still aMormon, she is not a Christian and has not been saved.

I know Mormons believe in some weird sort of unbiblical universal salvation. But only those who place their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ are saved. There is no other gospel (Galatians1). All the rest are false and will lead to hell, the great white throne of judgment and the lake of fire.(Revelation 20)


41 posted on 05/11/2013 10:46:57 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: kabumpo

My argument is that she was a sheltered little girl who was kidnapped at knifepoint by a deranged man and his pathetic wife. And your assertion that she was “in on it” is so ridiculous. I do not know what kind of 14 year old girls you know.. But they are not like this little, naive girl who had her innocence robbed. Shame on you. there was no evidence then of that and there is zero today. But I guess you are so brilliant you know better. I guess you must believe thatnevery Little Mormon girl’s wish is to be raped and held hostage by a dirty, crazy middle aged man.

And just because I point out the obvious does not make me a Democrat, it make me astute.


42 posted on 05/11/2013 12:56:19 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Hildy

I didn’t ask if you were a Dem because you pointed out the obvious - but because you resorted to instant name-calling instead of presenting an argument.
And no, I don’t think it is every Mormon girl’s wish to run away with a lunatic, I think that this girl was from a peculiar family with an extremely impaired sense of reality, who put their daughters at risk by giving strange men who were mentally disturbed access to their home. That alone is mind-boggling. This man had the delusion that he was some kind of messiah and I believe that he seduced this gullible teenager into believing some pseudo-religious nonsense.
It is very easy to get heated and defensive about the purity of this girl, but this man was not a stranger, as in the Polly Klass abduction/murder in Petaluma, and the exact details of the Smart abduction are still hazy.


43 posted on 05/11/2013 1:33:50 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

So let me understand. because this man was hired in the house at some point it is not considered a kidnapping? Somehow this girl asked for it?


44 posted on 05/11/2013 6:52:16 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Morgana

because he had a knife to her throat. Everyone thinks they know what they would do if they were threatened. When I was 20 I was held up by two men with rifles to my head. I froze.. Could not move. I cannot imagine what this little girl could have possibly done.


45 posted on 05/11/2013 6:55:39 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Hildy

You do not understand, or you are deliberately oversimplifying, and therefore distorting, what I said.
I don’t find the narrative about how the abduction occurred to be satisfying. Having seen documentary footage of the Smart home, I don’t find.the narrative about how the abduction occurred satisfying.
The fact that she was exposed to this man in her home - we have no idea to what extent - is troubling. The nine months of her disappearance makes me wonder.
I also am not inhibited by a prejudice about who is or is not ”a nice girl” - I don’t care. I am simply responding to the presentation of the narrative, and since I find it to be weak, I see another possible explanation.


46 posted on 05/11/2013 8:22:55 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Hildy

By the way, I am, among other things, a writer, and I have worked in the movie industry. I have read hundreds of stories that have become movies. A narrative has to hang together, and make sense. This same sense of story was what got me to change from remaining a liberal - the way I was raised - to becoming conservative. I went somehwere, saw some things, and aked, how is this possible, if what I’ve have been told and believed is one one thing, but what I am seeing is something else? So I started reading and looking for clues - which is how I learned about Walter Duranty lying about the the Ukrainian famine — and the entire structure of my liberal upbringing and education began to unravel. I apply the same rigor to every story, whether it is news or fiction.
I’ve just looked on the internet and seen that there are others who have questioned the Elizabeth Smart narrative. It seems that there are even more holes in her story than I realized. Take a look.


47 posted on 05/11/2013 8:44:23 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

A crazy man came through her window, put a knife to her throat and told her he would kill her and her sister is she didn’t come with him. Since you are not a 14 year old girl, I doubt you have the experience to know what she was thinking. And others on the Internet agree with you? Well I am just shocked...shocked I tell you.


48 posted on 05/11/2013 9:33:55 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: nonsporting
If Elizabeth is still aMormon, she is not a Christian and has not been saved. I know Mormons believe in some weird sort of unbiblical universal salvation. But only those who place their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ are saved. There is no other gospel (Galatians1). All the rest are false and will lead to hell, the great white throne of judgment and the lake of fire.(Revelation 20)

Unknown quantities and not for us to judge. I can't figure out why so many are so dang concerned with the souls of the Romneys and not so concerned about the sold they can reach with the Word. For all we know, the whole Romney clan, and even a whole bunch of Mormons, have acknowledged Christ as Lord and Savior and are as saved as the rest of us who either belong to more "traditional" religions (over 32K sects of Christianity and some of them are real doozies) or even non-denominational. I have heard Romney acknowledge Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and have no reason to not believe him. I got away from religion because it has so many ways to obfuscate the Word by mixing in a few thousand canons, doctrines, rites, ceremonies, etc., that it really whittles away at the pure carrying of the good news of the Gospels and the New Covenant. The Bible will not make me a theologian, but it carries ample Word to bring me to Christ.

There are a number of "universalist" Christian religions out there and we will never truly know until He comes back. Even the Rapture and its timing have not become "settled science" among all theologians - it makes no difference because it will be what it will be as He spoke it and all we can do is try to be prepared and to carry the Word that others can be prepared too. Carrying the Word itself is much more effective than leaving it out of the equation and just slamming the religions one doesn't like - I don't like any of them and consider them to be purveyors of sinfulness because so many get so caught up in the religion that they start to miss the MESSAGE. I won't go on a crusade against any religion (I love conversations though) because even the worst of the Christian religious sects has undoubtedly reached some souls with the message they needed to hear.

49 posted on 05/12/2013 4:29:16 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb
The Bible will not make me a theologian, but it carries ample Word to bring me to Christ.

If you were to die today, where would you spend eternity? On what do you base this?

50 posted on 05/12/2013 7:41:29 AM PDT by nonsporting
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