Posted on 04/25/2013 3:39:02 PM PDT by Kolath
Big Pharm can’t make money off of Greek yogurt and homemade bone broth (from simmering for hours meat and bones until gelatinous, makes awesome noodle soup, is very soothing/healing for the gut). My sis-in-law recently and accidentally discovered and self-diagnosed her gluten intolerance. She had severe back pain and has been seeing specialists, in an effort to avoid back surgery, for almost two years now. She had enough when the pain specialist put her on Cymbalta (some fun side effects there!) and it didn’t work. Not a fan of low carb diets, she went on one as a last resort to lose a few pounds before a family wedding last month. When her back felt great as a result, I reminded her that my arthritis disappears when I eliminate sucrose from my diet. After some research she has gone off gluten and feels great. She’s also been on Nexium for about five years and she just stopped taking it as well. Of all of the docs she’s seen for her pain and acid reflux, none had suggested a change in diet. Now her specialists are frustrated that she is self-treating through diet, instead of being happy that she is cured and accepting the fact that the body can heal itself with proper diet. My son is the same way: ADHD symptoms disappeared when dairy was eliminated from his diet. Expose him to MSG and literally watch him bounce off of his bedroom walls. Why does diet treat/heal a neurological disorder? Maybe it’s something to do with the gut. Our systems work in tandem and if one system has issues it’s logical that this could affect others.
I sure hope so Nit, I never heard of autism or ADD in the first half of my life. Later I suspected all the meds that teachers and doctors forced on the kids, but that doesn’t explain the very young autistic children.
I’m a big believer in the benefits of yougart and I sometimes take Acidophilus. We need the good bacteria.
You pulled your kids off dairy. I just wanted to say that raw milk from a healthy cow might be perfectly fine for your son. A lot of people who can’t handle killed milk thrive on raw milk. This happened in our family.
I would love to get my hands on raw milk; however, it is illegal to sell and purchase in my state. I can put my kid on Ritalin (lovely side-effects and all) by simply telling the doc he’s hyper, but social services will have me arrested and take my kids away if I get caught buying raw milk. They’re from the government and they’re here to help!
Everything she said is based on misinformation she read on some quack or con-man's website and it *is* bilge. As a scientist, I feel I have an ethical obligation to point out quackery. I realize that many people have emotional attachments to the bilge spewed by con-men, and I am not going to speculate on the psychology of how con-men convince people that they are more trustworthy than actual experts--but what I have always done, and will continue to do, is point out to people when they are repeating pseudoscience.
Pseudoscience, at best, convinces people to spend money needlessly. At its worst, it kills people. Either they forego needed medical treatments, or they consume unsafe "remedies". Because it is not a harmless little preoccupation like belief in UFOs, I actually spend quite a bit of time and energy trying to educate people who are taken in by it.
Can you provide a link to the vaccine package inserts, and point out to me exactly what you are referring to? Do you actually know how to read package inserts? Do you understand that just because a vaccine strain of a microorganism is grown in cells does not mean that it contains any of those cells once the vaccine component has been extracted and purified?
If the growth of viruses in cells from an aborted baby bothers you (and I fully understand that), you have the option (with most vaccines) of using a vaccine from a different manufacturer that was made using a different cell line.
Glutamate is glutamate. Its properties do not change just because it was packaged as a dried sodium salt--and monosodium glutamate can ONLY exist as a dry salt, because once added to food, it becomes wet and the sodium and glutamate no longer stick to each other. Are you sure your father didn't have a reaction to an unusually high sodium content in the food?
I would love to be able to say that your decision to not vaccinate your kids only affects your kids. Unfortunately, it does not. It endangers every child your kids come into contact with. Especially babies, whose immature immune systems need a lot of training to recognize pathogens. Immune compromised children are also endangered because their defective immune systems might not respond to vaccines. I am very glad to see the scientific and medical communities coming together to push back against anti-vaccine quackery. Some pediatricians will not admit unvaccinated kids into their practices. Some schools are requiring parents who want to enroll their unvaccinated kids to bring a signed form from a physician indicating that they have been informed and understand the dangers of refusing to vaccinate.
The fact is that the cause of Gulf War Syndrome remains unknown. Interestingly, a couple of years ago, I happened to sit in on a committee reviewing Gulf War Syndrome study proposals (as an impartial government observer). GWS may be caused by infectious agents common to that part of the world, or to chemical exposures.
There is no credible documentation of "vaccine interaction" causing any kind of adverse effect. The main concern when giving multiple vaccines at once is that the immune system might not be able to respond effectively to one antigen if it is given in combination with another antigen. These kinds of issues are actively examined during clinical trials of vaccines. If a vaccine is known to interfere with the response to another vaccine, then those vaccines are not given together.
Just keep in mind that every day, every person is exposed to and responds immunologically to thousands of antigens--far more than the few dozen typically received during the course of vaccination.
One vaccine will not make a child autistic, but hitting them with 14 to 28 vaccines before they attend K grade is another story. Gov and drug companies swear it is impossible to do a study because Americans are mobile and move all over. Interesting to note no one thought of studying the autism rate amongst the Amish. Amish autism rate is 1 per 15000, while modern US is 1 per 88 thru 150 (depending on source). Younger Amish families are starting to accept some vaccines for their preschool kids. Be interesting to track their future autism rate.
Autism shows every sign of being a genetic disorder, probably affected by the synergy of defects in several different genes, with perhaps some contribution from environmental factors experienced before birth. There is some evidence that fevers at certain stages of pregnancy increase the autism rate; partly for this reason, pregnant women are encouraged to get the influenza vaccine. Epidemiological analysis actually shows that women who received the influenza vaccine have better pregnancy outcomes on a number of measures than women who didn't.
There is actually no evidence that the Amish autism rate differs from that of the rest of the population. Amish people do vaccinate their children--Amish parents, like other parents, do not relish the prospect of seeing their children die of vaccine-preventable diseases.
This article addresses the falsehood that Amish do not vaccinate.
And this article raises some intriguing points about why the perceived autism rate among Amish may be lower. The diagnostic criteria for autism have been changed, resulting in more active screening for it, resulting in more diagnosed cases--the Amish don't screen for it. And until the actual genetic/environmental causes of autism have been defined so that objective scientific diagnoses can be made (instead of subjectively looking at a list of indicators and trying to decide whether the patient exhibits them or not), we won't have a good idea of how prevalent autism actually is. The bottom line here is that differences in culture account for most of the differences in autism rates, regardless of which cultures are compared.
If others have been vaccinated, what fear have they of my children? Have you revaccinated yourself and your kids since vaccine immunizations do not last forever? The CDC is now encouraging a second chicken pox vaccine and second wooping cough vaccine because they work sooooo well. As for my info, I asked my pediatrician for the package inserts so you should be able to do the same. Your pediatrician has to provide them to you. They are the inserts that come with the concoctions. I’m sure vaccine makers’ web sites have the info if you’re so inclined to visit them. There are too many manufacturers to list separately. Also, many vaccines do not come in abortion-free form. Children of God for Life (cogforlife.org) has a great site with that info. Finally, the MSG issue was confirmed by docs, and if you do some research on it (webmd, Mayo Clinic, etc.) you will discover that the ingredient can be very dangerous for some people. I was able to find my info quite easily, so I’m sure it will be just as easy for you.
I already mentioned a couple of the reasons your unvaccinated children present a danger to others. But I will present a more comprehensive list of reasons.
Background: unvaccinated children are essentially primed to catch any infectious disease upon their first exposure. Many diseases become contagious days before symptoms appear. Many parents, having no other options, will send symptomatic children to school. Either way, whatever your children pick up, they will share with everyone they come in contact with during the contagious period. I should point out that measles outbreaks--which occur far too frequently these days--are almost always traced back to an unvaccinated child. The dangers are:
1) To infants. Because they have essentially no immune system at birth, they are exceedingly susceptible to catching diseases and dying from them. Diseases like whooping cough*, which may be only mildly symptomatic in an older child, have a high chance of killing a baby, or of leaving an infant with irreversible brain damage and other physical defects. 2) To anyone with an immune system dysfunction. This can be a child with an inborn defect who is unable to mount an immune response to vaccination. Such a defect also greatly increases the severity of disease, since they can't fight it off once they catch it. Immune system dysfunctions can result from cancer, organ transplants, and autoimmune diseases, since the treatments for these involve suppressing the immune system. People with AIDS--a disease which destroys immune system cells--are also highly susceptible to infectious disease; they can die from diseases that a person in good health would easily recover from.
3. To people with immune system variants that prevent them from mounting an adequate immune response to some vaccines. These people are not sick, nor do they have an immune dysfunction. But, like variations in hair and eye color, there are variations in immune systems. A particular antigen may not be recognized by their immune system, even though their immune system recognizes other antigens perfectly well. It is for this reason--immune system variability--that no vaccine is 100% effective for 100% of the people.
*An issue with whooping cough is that the original whooping cough vaccine caused numerous painful side effects. The vaccine consisted of whole, killed bacteria. Because of the side effects, a new vaccine was developed that only contains one protein from the bacteria. As it turns out, immunity against this one protein does not last for very long. As a result, even vaccinated children can get pertussis. For this reason, it is now recommended that older children receive a booster, and that pregnant women receive a booster during the third trimester to protect their babies. Also, anyone expecting to spend time around a baby should get a booster. A new vaccine, probably containing several proteins from Bordertella pertussis, is desperately needed, but it takes many years to develop and test a vaccine.
I wasn't asking for vaccine package inserts because I'm curious about looking at them--really, I look at them all the time, it's part of my job. I wanted to see specifically what YOU saw that has you all concerned about the ingredients. I can't very well explain in layman's terms what the inserts you saw mean if I can't see them for myself.
As for the MSG, I am unaware of any studies that actually show adverse effects from consuming MSG. This abstract from a review paper summarizes the situation pretty clearly (the whole article is not available without buying it). This abstract seemed somewhat alarming, until I did the calculations and determined that the dosage of MSG, molecule for molecule, was over twice the dosage of the NaCl placebo, and would equate to a dose of over 8 grams (more than half a tablespoon) of MSG per day. Who eats quantities like that??? OTOH, if someone eats a meal heavily flavored with MSG... and they dowse soy sauce on everything... and the food is heavily salted to begin with... they could easily get a high dose of sodium, which would be enough to set their electrolytes all out-of-kilter, and cause the symptoms normally attributed to "Chinese restaurant syndrome".
BTW, in case you're wondering--I am a doctor, of the PhD variety, and I do medical research. And yes, I do have all my vaccinations up-to-date. I plan to ask for the shingles vaccine on my next check-up. I had shingles a year ago (NOT pleasant!), and even though I'm too young to receive the vaccine, I do not want shingles again!
You’re a Ph. D and can’t find info on the dangers of MSG? After my family’s experiences and the medical experts backing up what happens, I must state this: I live in the Ohio Valley and pray that you do not work or practice here as well! As for the immune-compromised, there are signs in our pediatricians office that warn newly vaccinated to avoid these people so that’s really not an issue. Your stance on the subject is quite frightening! Should I put my daughter back on dairy and then make her puff albuterol all day and night? How disgustingly obtuse of you to think that is the solution to her asthma problems instead of just pulling her off diary! The same for my son’s mild ADHD melt downs. Oh yeah, what a great scientist you are to suggest those dangerous meds (which I believe most school shooters were on) are a better solution than simply avoiding MSG! I find it very difficult to believe you are a scientist! A real professinal would welcome the input of others’ experiences. Lord have mercy! How limited our scientific advancements might be if all scientists were like you! Further more, your post to another FReeper regarding your ideas on limiting activities of the unvaccinated suggests you are also not aconservative. How about we also have special schools for them and make the unvaccinated sit more towards the back of the bus? Why not regulate special drinking fountains and even restaurants for the unvaccinated? Hmmm? Go back to DU and spout your unquestioned faith to Big Gov and their love of government regulations there please. That’s not how conservatism works. If I don’t like vaccines I don’t vaccinate, but I certainly don’t insist that others be regulated to my standards. If a conservative thinks vaccines are important she vaccinated, but she does not demand others do also. And don’t try that “it’s for the children” bologna because conservatives know how you libs love to use them as human shields.
She is scare-mongering out of ignorance.
The whole vaccination phobia is too weird. Ya’ll are worse than backwater Muslims.
As a conservative I maintain my right to make my own decision, but unlike you libs I do not demand legislation so that others are required to do as I feel. Go get all of your vaccine boosters like Big Gov says, and don’t forget to follow Mooch’s food guidelines as well!
Except your decisions can hurt others. It’s more selfish than conservative.
Sure, it’s for the children right? Are you going to pull an obama and parade out a group of parents who lost loved ones to chicken pox? If it only saves one child . . .
gluten problems are an “in” disease right now, but do exist and probably a lot of people suffer from it.
Since it is hard to diagnose, the way to check it out is elimination diet. Lots of gluten free recipes out there, and using rice instead of wheat products eliminates the problem.
But a lot of the health problems are also from the allergy/immune system problem.
There are good books out there about this, and essentially you start with white rice, green beans, and organic chicken, and then add one food every few days and see if the symptoms come back.
As for milk, it causes allergies and also cannot be eaten by Asians or Africans. Yogurt has lactobacillus, so is good to replace the “good” bacteria (here in Asia, yogurt and “Yokult” are commonly used as health foods).
However, some folks are allergic to milk (and alas to Soy milks) too, so can’t eat yogurt...
The “immune” system is the link between all of this. I know if I eat sulfites (salad bars in restaurants, hot dogs, etc) I get hives and get a restless feeling when I try to sleep. So I am aware of it.
However, usually I avoid these things and just take an anti histamine and get on with my life.
However, the percentage for these problems are low (less than ten percent of patients).
And a lot of the symptoms and their “cure” is placebo in neurotic women, who fixate on the problem and revolve their life around their symptoms, driving their spouses, children and friends nuts....
That’s not a criticism: I am “neurotic” personality too, so sympathize...but being brought up with a “stiff upper lip” German mother, I live with it.
The problem with autism is that it is a wastebasket diagnosis for all types of problems, including what in the past was merely called mental retardation, and the kids put into institutions...
I have no doubt that some autistic kids have these immune problems, but a lot are autistic from viral infections in the womb, or from genetic sydromes like Fragile X syndrome.
And I suspect there is a subset of people sensitive to all the chemicals in the environment. The problem: Without chemicals, people would be starving to death instead..Ditto for vaccines: without vaccines we’d see kids dying of measles, whooping cough, etc.
Can you say “cost benefit ratio”?
If a Ph.D. level medical researcher cannot find any studies that corroborate "Chinese restaurant syndrome" due to MSG in the world's foremost medical research database, that should tell you something.
Your family's experiences boil down to "My father ate at a Chinese restaurant and then went into A fib!" I'm sorry, but that is nearly meaningless as evidence. I broke my pelvis within half an hour of drinking Coke; does that mean that drinking Coke causes broken pelvises? I actually humored you a little by suggesting a physiologically plausible cause for the A fib. In reality, none of those sources you mentioned as "proving" the dangers of MSG do any such thing.
The Mayo Clinic website says, "However, researchers have found no definitive evidence of a link between MSG and these symptoms. Researchers acknowledge, though, that a small percentage of people may have short-term reactions to MSG. Symptoms are usually mild and don't require treatment. The only way to prevent a reaction is to avoid foods containing MSG." (Underlined for emphasis)
In other words, in the face of lack of evidence, researchers simply humor the "MSG is BAD!!!" fanatics by telling them to avoid it. (Probably not that easy, since glutamate is in nearly everything, but NVM.)
And, since you mentioned it, I'll also quote from WebMD:
Why it's controversial
Many people claim to have bad reactions when they eat food seasoned with MSG. In the late 1960s, people started talking about "Chinese restaurant syndrome," alleging that food prepared with MSG at Chinese restaurants made them sick.
What the research shows
Many studies over the past four decades have tested the idea that some people may be sensitive to MSG. Most scientists today agree that if there is such a thing as a sensitivity or allergy to MSG, it's extremely rare. Studies haven't found any regular pattern of symptoms that could be typical of a reaction to MSG. Also, people are more likely to have symptoms if they're given MSG crystals than if they eat the same amount of MSG mixed with food.
"It's very hard for me to believe that there's a problem with it," Nestle says. Nevertheless, some still swear that they have bad reactions to MSG. "People who think they have problems with it should avoid it," she says.
Hmm, just like the Mayo Clinic expert, the WebMD expert also recommends humoring the "MSG is BAD!!!" fanatics by telling them to avoid it, while pointing out that there is no evidence for "Chinese restaurant syndrome."
I'll point out that all reputable medical research is indexed in PubMed (www.pubmed.org). You can access it just as easily as I can; if there are tons of studies that I somehow missed, you are more than welcome to provide your search terms and prove me wrong. But all I see there are studies supporting the general safety of MSG in usual food quantities. I actually highly suggest learning how to conduct searches in PubMed so that you can check pseudoscience claims for yourself; it's greatly empowering to be able to reject quackery because you understand exactly how the quacks are trying to bamboozle you.
BTW, for your edification, here's a list of causes of A-fib (taken from wikipedia, and appropriately referenced):
Causes
AF is linked to several cardiac causes, but may occur in otherwise normal hearts. Known associations include:
As for the immune-compromised, there are signs in our pediatricians office that warn newly vaccinated to avoid these people so that’s really not an issue. Your stance on the subject is quite frightening!
The reason for those signs is that it takes 2 weeks to build up an immunity following vaccination; therefore, someone who has just been vaccinated can still catch the disease in that time and pass it on to someone who is immunocompromised. What those signs omitted is that if you have never been vaccinated, you are always a danger to the immunocompromised and should stay away from them. Always. Forever. Of course my stance is frightening--infectious diseases kill. That should frighten anyone. And people like you who don't take infectious disease seriously endanger everyone.
Should I put my daughter back on dairy and then make her puff albuterol all day and night? How disgustingly obtuse of you to think that is the solution to her asthma problems instead of just pulling her off diary! The same for my son’s mild ADHD melt downs. Oh yeah, what a great scientist you are to suggest those dangerous meds (which I believe most school shooters were on) are a better solution than simply avoiding MSG! I find it very difficult to believe you are a scientist! A real professinal would welcome the input of others’ experiences. Lord have mercy! How limited our scientific advancements might be if all scientists were like you! Further more, your post to another FReeper regarding your ideas on limiting activities of the unvaccinated suggests you are also not aconservative. How about we also have special schools for them and make the unvaccinated sit more towards the back of the bus? Why not regulate special drinking fountains and even restaurants for the unvaccinated? Hmmm? Go back to DU and spout your unquestioned faith to Big Gov and their love of government regulations there please. That’s not how conservatism works. If I don’t like vaccines I don’t vaccinate, but I certainly don’t insist that others be regulated to my standards. If a conservative thinks vaccines are important she vaccinated, but she does not demand others do also. And don’t try that “it’s for the children” bologna because conservatives know how you libs love to use them as human shields.
My goodness, now you are jumping off the deep end, making all kinds of assumptions and putting words into my mouth that I never said. I can't say I'm surprised, since, in my experience, people who latch on to pseudoscience and quackery never let go, despite mountains of evidence that they believe in nonsense. Personally, I have no attachment to a belief that is so strong that I refuse to let go of it when I see evidence that it is not true. I also am not surprised by your quick devolvement into insults and rudeness. Although you are trying to insult me by calling me a liberal, your behavior is very much what I have come to expect from liberals--baseless smears, accusations, and everything. There is *nothing* conservative about endangering the lives of other people just so that you can indulge in your anti-vac paranoia. That's the behavior of a spoiled brat liberal.
You’re a loon. Go study something scientific, like maybe how we were told eggs were unhealthy but now it turns out “experts” were wrong and they are healthy.
As always, when a nutcase is challenged on their nutty, non-scientific beliefs, they turn on the scientists who painstakingly collect and analyze evidence.
Educate yourself. Stop falling for quacks. Stop endangering other people with your kooky beliefs. I've given you the tools to get started with empowering yourself and protecting yourself against quackery.
Whenever I engage a kook on a scientific issue, I always have some shred of hope that they will be rational and intelligent enough to at least be prodded to start trying to learn for themselves instead of falling like lemmings for quackery. The kookiest of kooks always reject scientific information, but I do know that others learn useful stuff from my posts.
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