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IDF says ‘shalom’ to the M-16
Times of Israel ^ | December 14, 2012 | Staff

Posted on 01/16/2013 6:32:52 AM PST by Pharmboy

Army transitioning to Israeli-made assault rifle for all units, according to report


An IDF infantry soldier armed with an Israeli-made Tavor rifle takes part in an urban warfare drill. (photo credit: Tsafrir Abayov/Flash90)

The IDF is phasing out its American-made M-16 assault rifles and replacing them with its Israeli-made Tavor assault rifles, according to a report on Maariv’s website NRG.

The Tavor — featuring a very different design than the M-16, developed for the IDF’s needs by Israel Military Industries during the 1990s — was introduced into service with regular infantry troops in the early 2000s, and slowly integrated to increasingly larger numbers of units throughout the decade. During that period, some M-16s, designed in the Vietnam era, were altered to better meet the IDF’s needs, while others were removed from service; the M-16 increasingly became a weapon for reservists.

As the NRG report noted, there are now a large number of soldiers in the reserves who did not use the American assault rifle during their compulsory military service. To standardize the weaponry for reservists, the report said, senior infantry commanders have decided to completely phase out the M-16s in favor of the Tavor.

The move is a reversal of sorts from the time when the IDF replaced its stock of Galil rifles — the Israeli-designed weapons that were based on a derivative of the ubiquitous Russian AK-47 — with the American M-16s.


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: armyrifles; banglist
I searched, but did not find this anywhere here. I thought it might be of interest to some on this site.
1 posted on 01/16/2013 6:33:01 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy

A short barreled bull pup? Why? They only thinking CQB and no open desert combat? This doesn’t make sense.


2 posted on 01/16/2013 6:35:21 AM PST by Obadiah (Those who will not hear the messengers of peace, shall be made to hear the messengers of war.)
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To: Obadiah

I’ll keep my AK lookin’ Galil Golani, thank you.


3 posted on 01/16/2013 6:39:38 AM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: Obadiah; thefactor
Yep...more of a carbine than a rifle. Good for building to building fighting, but, as you say, not the best option for traditional warfare, e.g., Afghanistan, which could be part of what the IDF might face in terrain type.

What do you say, thefactor?

4 posted on 01/16/2013 6:41:35 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: elcid1970

Galil 5.56 mm

5 posted on 01/16/2013 6:43:55 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

6 posted on 01/16/2013 6:44:32 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: Pharmboy

For what round is this chambered?


7 posted on 01/16/2013 6:48:19 AM PST by newbolt
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To: Pharmboy

The Tavor is more than just a bullpup.

Some optional features are still classified, I think ;).


8 posted on 01/16/2013 6:48:23 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Vendetta))
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To: newbolt

My first thought as well. I’m guessing it’s still the NATO 5.56 because of the availability.


9 posted on 01/16/2013 6:53:23 AM PST by exPBRrat
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To: Obadiah

That could be a 16” barrel shown. One of the advantages of a bull pup is a more balanced rifle with a long barrel but a shorter overall length.


10 posted on 01/16/2013 6:53:33 AM PST by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: Obadiah
Not so... the design enables the barrel to remain the same length while shortening the overall length of the rifle. not the placement of the magazine!!!
11 posted on 01/16/2013 6:56:08 AM PST by ontap
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To: Obadiah

Maybe it’s me, but look where the chamber is on the side. It’s really close to the stuck, so the barrel appears almost the same as the M-16.

And based on the “stock” it appears as if it some how disperses the recoil in multiple directions so that it doesn’t hurt your shoulder.

Just my guess though.


12 posted on 01/16/2013 6:57:04 AM PST by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: Obadiah

not the =note the


13 posted on 01/16/2013 6:57:09 AM PST by ontap
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To: exPBRrat
5.56MM NATO. Conversion kits to 9MM and 5.45X39MM.

Oddly enough, USA manufacture began short time ago. Price around $2K. Not sure what affect the CT situation will have however...

14 posted on 01/16/2013 6:59:46 AM PST by donozark (Kim Kardashian had her baby. Triplets! She named them Wilson, Spaulding and Rawlings.)
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To: donozark

Its scary looking, which means it will be on the ban list.


15 posted on 01/16/2013 7:11:32 AM PST by PJammers (I can't help it... It's my idiom!)
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To: Pharmboy

Both the Brits and the French use a bullpup design. The FAMAS and SA80/L85 models.


16 posted on 01/16/2013 7:27:35 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Obadiah
The Israeli army also has 7.62NATO rifles and sniper rifles.

I think the attitude is, if the guy is past 300 yards, let the sniper/marksman or mortar crew deal with him.

17 posted on 01/16/2013 7:30:15 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625
I trained at Ft Gordon GA in 1967 with the 7.62 M-14. Now that was a rifle.
18 posted on 01/16/2013 8:02:16 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Hardraade; Pharmboy; Obadiah; elcid1970; thefactor; newbolt; exPBRrat; Durus; ontap; ...
India manufactures (modified for Himalayan conditions) and uses the Tavor in places like Kashmir:

U.S. forces training with Indian troops using Indian Tavors in a high altitude warfare school in Kashmir:

Indian special forces with the Tavor:


19 posted on 01/16/2013 8:05:08 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: PJammers

Too many “ugly features.” Butch Reno would hate it!


20 posted on 01/16/2013 8:13:29 AM PST by donozark (Kim Kardashian had her baby. Triplets! She named them Wilson, Spaulding and Rawlings.)
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To: Pharmboy

I’ve always wanted one of those,,, that one is nice...


21 posted on 01/16/2013 8:14:28 AM PST by ßuddaßudd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Pharmboy

I’ve always wanted one of those,,, that one is nice...


22 posted on 01/16/2013 8:14:49 AM PST by ßuddaßudd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Obadiah

Evidently the Tavor bull pup comes in short AND long barreled versions. (See the Indian Tavors above). In a bull pup design, the barrel goes nearly the full length of the shoulder stock anyway—so even the shortest ones have a 16” barrel.

Also the Israelis still use conventional Galli sniper-rifles for long range...


23 posted on 01/16/2013 9:09:45 AM PST by AnalogReigns (because the real world is not digital...)
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To: AnalogReigns

Thanks, yeah, I see that.


24 posted on 01/16/2013 9:12:26 AM PST by Obadiah (Those who will not hear the messengers of peace, shall be made to hear the messengers of war.)
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To: Pharmboy

God Bless the nation of Israel!!!!!!!!!


25 posted on 01/16/2013 1:26:06 PM PST by longhorn too
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To: Pharmboy

What’s the effective point target range on that thing? Can’t be more than a few hundred yeards. Not good for open fighting. Thankfully the AK is terrible as well in that arena.


26 posted on 01/17/2013 9:03:34 AM PST by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: Pharmboy

Also, in the story pic, the soldier is a lefty and the ejection port is on the left side. In the Indian soldier pic, the ejection port is on the right side. I would hope it would be an option, since a lefty shooter would not be able to use a bullpup rifle with the ejection port on the right side.


27 posted on 01/17/2013 9:14:42 AM PST by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: Obadiah
A short barreled bull pup? Why? They only thinking CQB and no open desert combat? This doesn’t make sense.

Three reasons.

1: most Israeli troops move in Nagmashot and Nakpadon Armored Personnel Carriers/Infantry Fighting Vehicles, rather than lesser vehicles more vulnerable to mines/IEDs and wire-guided antitank guided missiles. Room is tight inside the Centurion tank-based APCs, as it is in the back of an older M113/Zelda APC or a Merkava or helicopter.

2: Much of the IDF's serious and personal work is done up close and at night. The Tavor offers the opportunity for barrel change and interesting novelties on the muzzle end without excessively compromising performance. Electrooptical night sights are also a factor, adding weight that can be partially compensated for with a shorter and lighter barrel.

3: The M16 family weapons became common due to their being provided as US military FMAP equipment programs, their cost being about a third of a Israeli-built Galil or Glilon. There's not likely to be much more of that after the Israelis nuke Iran. And if they don't nuke Iran, it won't matter what kind of rifles the IDF has.

28 posted on 01/19/2013 1:10:20 PM PST by archy
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To: newbolt
For what round is this chambered?

5,56mm NATO, the SS109 or U.S. M855 round. The Tavorim I've fired had a barrel with a military 1:7 twist. The Tavor has a interchangable barrel in which only one mounting lug has to be disengaged which is on the right side of the weapon behind the pistol grip, maybe not quite as fast as an Australian AusSteyer or Austrian AUG, but removable/replacable within a minute or two.

29 posted on 01/19/2013 1:14:03 PM PST by archy
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To: James C. Bennett
India manufactures (modified for Himalayan conditions) and uses the Tavor in places like Kashmir:

Also the Serbian Vojska Srbije , in particular their 72nd Reconnaissance-Commando Battalion , which is evaluating about everything available in the world and can have whatever they want. They're fond of the AUG/AusSteyers, too:

Some Tavors have recently turned up in Mexico as well.

30 posted on 01/19/2013 1:25:13 PM PST by archy
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To: donozark
Oddly enough, USA manufacture began short time ago. Price around $2K. Not sure what affect the CT situation will have however...

They turned up at the SHOT show in Las Vegas last week. *article here.*

31 posted on 01/19/2013 1:27:20 PM PST by archy
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