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OK! Which one was it?
Self | 12/31/12 | Self

Posted on 12/31/2012 10:44:35 AM PST by chooseascreennamepat

For the month that the murders in Newtown have been in the news, I have heard two totally different stories as to the weapon used.

Some stories claim the perp used the semiautomatic rifle while others (as recently as Saturday) claim he used the two pistols he had in his possession.

Which is it?


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; newtown; vanity
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1 posted on 12/31/2012 10:44:41 AM PST by chooseascreennamepat
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To: chooseascreennamepat

He used the rifle to kill the victims, and a pistol to kill himself.


2 posted on 12/31/2012 10:46:17 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

According the the strange medical examiner he used the rifle on the victims. After watching a video of his news conference I am suspect of anything he says - he is a very strange man.


3 posted on 12/31/2012 10:49:12 AM PST by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

coroner reported .223 wounds to victims.


4 posted on 12/31/2012 10:49:15 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

You will never know the truth.
They will tell you what to believe.
Want to know more? Click on .GOV for more info!/S


5 posted on 12/31/2012 10:49:35 AM PST by 9422WMR (Life is not fair, just deal with it)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

He used insanity to kill the children and better judgement to kill himself. We all wish he had used better judgement first.


6 posted on 12/31/2012 10:49:51 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

I’m doubtful that we truly know what really happened there. Too many questions...
http://www.naturalnews.com/038509_Sandy_Hook_multiple_shooters_police_audio.html


7 posted on 12/31/2012 10:51:32 AM PST by WXRGina (Further up and further in!)
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To: chooseascreennamepat
I think many people are confused as to the Bushmaster .223. And correct me if I'm wrong.

One squeeze equals one bullet. I think the majority think the clip can be emptied with one squeeze.

8 posted on 12/31/2012 10:59:49 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: chooseascreennamepat

What was the motive? Not hearing much about that. Wonder why?


9 posted on 12/31/2012 11:00:50 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: chooseascreennamepat
Which is it?

There is a moral in this for all of us...Never go with the initial press reports!

Initial (verbal) reports said the rifle was still in the trunk when the police arrived. When the coroner's report came out some days later it reported that all the children were killed by .223 caliber (rifle) bullets. Further, the "official" police report said the only cartridge brass recovered was .223 which begs the question of where was the 9mm brass (pistol) that the shooter used on himself?

It appears the MSM, in their haste to "break" a big story, will report rumor as fact. If there are no rumors available, they'll make something up.

Regards,
GtG

10 posted on 12/31/2012 11:04:15 AM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Sacajaweau

Clip?


11 posted on 12/31/2012 11:04:23 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

Don’t you mean you read the disputed claim on a blog or in a column written days ago?


12 posted on 12/31/2012 11:05:39 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: chooseascreennamepat

The media has chosen to bury this story (for whatever reason) rather than continue to report on it and provide updated details as to what actually happened that day.


13 posted on 12/31/2012 11:09:16 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (Bathhouse Barry wants YOU to bend over for another four years)
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To: Sacajaweau

Aside from a small handful of very old M-16’s or smuggled/illegally modified rifles, all you can legally get in AR rifles is semi-automatic. One trigger pull, one shot. You can get a “bump firing” type of stock or device that will cause the recoil motion of the rifle to make your finger cycle the trigger automatically. It can also be done (with practice) by holding the rifle a certain way.

Here’s a home-made “bump board” for a semi-auto pistol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlFZOBiWRko


14 posted on 12/31/2012 11:10:25 AM PST by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

There is no media interest in this case other than banning guns ...

1. No right wing manifesto found
2. Single moms are a ‘Rat constituency
3. No Christians to bash
4. No Bush to blame
5. CT gun laws failed to stop it
6. Kooks are a ‘Rat protected class
7. Gun free zones are PC
8. The truth shines light on the ‘Rat cockroaches


15 posted on 12/31/2012 11:15:38 AM PST by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: blueunicorn6

“What was the motive?”

He was insane. ‘nuf said?


16 posted on 12/31/2012 11:21:17 AM PST by chooseascreennamepat (You can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

Pump shotgun in trunk, you can see the cop ejecting the plastic shells

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/340113


17 posted on 12/31/2012 11:23:29 AM PST by wolficatZ (Hey blue states....Got Food?)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

“Initial (verbal) reports said the rifle was still in the trunk when the police arrived. When the coroner’s report came out some days later it reported that all the children were killed by .223 caliber (rifle) bullets. Further, the “official” police report said the only cartridge brass recovered was .223 which begs the question of where was the 9mm brass (pistol) that the shooter used on himself?

Exactly what I recall. Thanks.


18 posted on 12/31/2012 11:25:25 AM PST by chooseascreennamepat (You can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: 43north
According the the strange medical examiner he used the rifle on the victims. After watching a video of his news conference I am suspect of anything he says - he is a very strange man.

So strange I wouldn't want him anywhere near any departed loved one. He was enjoying his 15 minutes so much he was laughing. The police said Lanza had two handguns but they had to change their story when the freaky M.E. did his bizarre presser. He said the victims were shot with a long gun. As if he couldn't identify the rifle from the evidence?

19 posted on 12/31/2012 11:25:39 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

He used whatever is necessary to make the consumer more emotional and less logical.


20 posted on 12/31/2012 11:25:42 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Initial (verbal) reports said the rifle was still in the trunk when the police arrived

It was very visual when the cops were taking it out of the trunk. Do a search for the video.

21 posted on 12/31/2012 11:29:15 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: USMCPOP

Fill out the proper paperwork, pay $200 (per device), wait for the feds to get done crawling through your bowels with a magnifying glass, pick up your fully automatic firearm, short barreled rifle or short barreled shot gun. Just make sure you keep that paperwork with the item at all times. People with full autos and SBRs are the most highly vetted individuals on the planet. Way more vetted than the current usurper in chief.


22 posted on 12/31/2012 11:30:42 AM PST by SolidRedState (I used to think bizarro world was a fiction.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

He used the rifle to kill the victims, and a pistol to kill himself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Correct. And after he killed himself, he locked the rifle in the trunk of his car.


23 posted on 12/31/2012 11:51:04 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

There was a shotgun in the trunk of the car. No rifle.


24 posted on 12/31/2012 11:54:37 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: USMCPOP

What is this obsession with “full automatic” weapons?

Very few people can hit anything while firing full auto, unless the target is close. You mainly are just throwing lead downrange to get the enemy to keep his head down.

Anyone ever hear of “hold ‘em & squeeze ‘em”?

If you are trying to hit your target, full auto is about as useful as the TV/Movie gangbangers holding their pistols horizontally.


25 posted on 12/31/2012 11:58:51 AM PST by BwanaNdege ("To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"- Voltaire)
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To: BwanaNdege

I don’t get it either. Their cultural tendency to spray and pray is a main reason US and Israeli troops generally win a firefight with Arabs.

As I understand it, one can quite easily run thru a 30 round magazine on semi-auto in less than half a minute. How much faster do you need?


26 posted on 12/31/2012 12:03:34 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: chooseascreennamepat

This whole thing is confusing. I’m not sure anyone knows what happened. It appears to me that they are molding the story to make it fit into the DemocRATS’ “gun control” agenda.


27 posted on 12/31/2012 12:05:07 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Where can I pick up a 2013 Mayan calendar?)
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To: Cyber Liberty; chooseascreennamepat

A defense to the magazine police...

In the Army, we had a ‘magazine’ for the M-16....I think it held 20 rounds.

Then, we also had some 30 round magazines, I think bought ‘on the economy’, and not through the normal government supply system. We called these ‘banana clips’.

I am well aware of what a clip is...and its persistent use by the media is annoying. In fact, it displays to me that the ‘gun culture’ they bemoan is born in Hollywood, where the term is often used, and not by true gun enthusiasts.

However, I will confess to using the term ‘clip’ from time to time. Maybe my mind has been polluted by the movies. Or it may be that we had those ‘banana clips’ in the Army.

Its kind of like the term pencil ‘lead’....we all know it isn’t really lead; but, at some point the usage becomes common, and we don’t even care.


28 posted on 12/31/2012 12:07:59 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
223 pistol with 150 round magazine
29 posted on 12/31/2012 12:09:58 PM PST by itsahoot (Any enemy, that is allowed to have a King's X line, is undefeatable. (USS Taluga AO-62))
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To: wolficatZ

Good grief...all I know about law enforcement, I learned on TV; but:

Is a guy holding a flashlight the best way to collect evidence from the trunk? Why not take it to a garage, and do it with gloved hands, without the gaggle of people, and without the helicopter flying overhead?

I don’t think these guys do that many murder investigations....the web site ‘city-data’ lists it as the 93rd safest city in the U.S. A look at the county the city is in (Fairfield) averages less than one murder a year.

And the medical examiner, who has worked in this county for 31 years, can automatically identify the wounds as .223 rounds? Can’t anyone in law enforcement definitively state what guns were in this guy’s possession? Instead of referring us to Andy Griffith the medical examiner, for his expert opinion?


30 posted on 12/31/2012 12:24:47 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: lacrew

George Orwell had a little something to say about controlling the language. Resist it I must.


31 posted on 12/31/2012 12:29:05 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Ok.

The complete name is:

magazine, cartridge, one each...

so its officially not a clip, nor is it a magazine.

Its a cartridge magazine.


32 posted on 12/31/2012 12:34:17 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

This crime had the elements the liberals want, so they were reported.

The Aurora shooting has the opposite, in that the drum magazine jammed early, and so most of the victims were hit with buckshot.

So, that has NOT been widely reported.


33 posted on 12/31/2012 1:20:48 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

I specifically remember that detail. I also saw the media reporting that the two handguns were a Glock 10mm (which is wrong—probably a Glock Model 10 9mm calibre) and a SigSauer 9mm.

I do not believe anything that the media reports and given the anti-gun movement being perpetuated by the White House and the media, nothing would surprise me if the coroner were told to lie. I also recall video of the police opening a car trunk and taking out a rifle.

Remember TWA Flight 800 and all the lies that came out of that story.


34 posted on 12/31/2012 1:30:17 PM PST by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

There should be plenty of crime scene photos showing the rifle in place at the end of the event. Who has access to this evidence?


35 posted on 12/31/2012 1:43:52 PM PST by marktwain
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To: 43north
he is a very strange man.

He is a man who enjoys dissecting freshly dead bodies, what do you expect?

"Doctor" Kevorkian was also a pathologist who had a fixation on dead bodies but focused more on the dying ones and helping them achieve their goal. Just a typical modern day GHOUL...........

Here's an ad that the good "doctor" placed in a Detroit newspaper:

In March 1990, a Detroit paper carried an article stating:

“Applications are being accepted. Oppressed by a fatal disease, a severe handicap, a crippling deformity? Write Box 261, Royal Oak, Mich. 48068-0261. Show him proper compelling medical evidence that you should die, and Dr. Jack Kevorkian will help you kill yourself, free of charge.” (8)

The REAL Jack Kevorkian

36 posted on 12/31/2012 1:45:03 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: TurboZamboni
coroner reported .223 wounds to victims.

...without seeing actual evidence of the bullets.

37 posted on 12/31/2012 1:46:53 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: wolficatZ
Pump shotgun in trunk, you can see the cop ejecting the plastic shells

You obviously have better vision than I because I didn't see any cartridges being ejected although it was apparent the officer was doing do so......

38 posted on 12/31/2012 1:54:41 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: wolficatZ
Pump shotgun in trunk, you can see the cop ejecting the plastic shells

Not questioning YOU, but rather the video. The assault happened in the morning and the cops wait until dark to open the trunk and discover the weapon?

Something isn't right which adds to the questioning of the accuracy of this entire event........

39 posted on 12/31/2012 2:03:13 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: wolficatZ
Pump shotgun in trunk, you can see the cop ejecting the plastic shells

Not questioning YOU, but rather the video. The assault happened in the morning and the cops wait until dark to open the trunk and discover the weapon?

Something isn't right which adds to the questioning of the accuracy of this entire event........

40 posted on 12/31/2012 2:25:19 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: chooseascreennamepat
A Marlin .22 to kill his mother.

The Bushmaster to shoot his way into the school by blowing out the glass.

The Bushmaster to kill all if not most of the victims.

One of the handguns to kill himself.

A semi-auto shotgun locked in his mother's car.

What was your Saturday source that only handguns were used in the school? A blog?

41 posted on 12/31/2012 2:27:54 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: SolidRedState
wait for the feds to get done crawling through your bowels with a magnifying glass...Just make sure you keep that paperwork with the item at all times. People with full autos and SBRs are the most highly vetted individuals on the planet.

There are two legal ways to avoid the fingerprinting, mug shot, background check, and sign-off by the chief LEO of your county to complete your ATF Form 4.

You can form an LLC corporation to hold your Class III items as "corporate assets". You as CEO and whomever else you designate as a "corporate officer" may use "corporate assets".

You can form a revocable trust to hold your Class III items as "trust assets". You as trustee and whomever else you designate as a trustee may use "trust assets".

These are possible because in the eyes of the law corporations and trusts are "legal entities". They are treated as a living person, they have rights, in the case of the corporation they pay taxes, but are incorporeal. That is they are not flesh and blood hence they have no fingers to print, no mug to photograph, and they get a pass on the background check and sign off by the LEO. By the way, the sign off is required if you file the Form 4 yourself but is discretionary on the part of your Sheriff. If he says no you are done right there.

The major differences between the two being corporations must be registered in the state in which they are incorporated. They must file an annual report with the state, and may be required to pay taxes if they turn a profit. The IRS may at some time enter the picture if you haven't filed a corporate return. They may declare your corporation is not a business but a hobby and yank your corporate standing.

Trusts, on the other hand, are only required to register in twelve states (and that is a "may" requirement, not a "must"). There is no requirement for annual reporting and no taxes. Thus, trusts function well below the "radar" and present a very discreet face to the world.

In either case you are going to need professional help in setting up the legal entity. To assure your success you should seek out a lawyer who handles "gun law" cases in your state of residence. There are law firms (Legal Zoom dot com) that do corporate and trust filings but have no experience with the gun laws of your state, AVOID going cheep and get the job done right the first time. There are web sites that can guide you to qualified law firms that will work with you to make sure you don't foul up. Plan on spending at least $1000 to get an iron clad package.

The completed Form 4, your certified check for $200, and a copy of your corporate or trust documents gets forwarded to the Class III FFL dealer from whom you are purchasing your "asset". He then completes the form by filling out a description of the purchased item with serial number, the address of his place of business, and the signature of the Class III licensee. He then forwards the entire package to a BATF examiner. What happens next is going to take time (6 months??) but in the end you will get what you want, guaranteed. If you file personally, no guarantee.

Regards,
GtG

PS No matter how you acquire a Class III item, file personally, shell corporation, or trust there are many ATF rules governing transportation of, use of, storage of, and ultimately disposition of your new toy. As well as the necessity of keeping ATF current on your home address. Your lawyer can fill you in.

42 posted on 12/31/2012 3:03:08 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: itsahoot
Auto Ordinance makes a .223? It looks just like a .45 ACP w/o the shoulder stock, and yes, I know that AO makes a .45 semiautomatic pistol as pictured.

There are a lot of AR and AK pistol variants in the back pages of shotgun news. For the life of me I can't see them being of any practical use.

I don't believe the police found any such weapon or else the MSM would have plastered it all over page one as an EEEVILEEE fully automatic pistol. Ceci n'est pas une pipe!

Regards,
GtG

43 posted on 12/31/2012 3:21:27 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: chooseascreennamepat
Some stories claim the perp used the semiautomatic rifle while others (as recently as Saturday) claim he used the two pistols he had in his possession.

Which is it?

1: He murdered his mother with a .22 semiauto rifle, apparently to obtain access to her weapons and vehicle. Assitional or other motivation is possible.

2: He drove to the school, leaving the .22 rifle behind, but taking the .223 Bushmaster [which his mother may have obtained from her brother, a police officer in their home town in New Hampshire] a 12 gauge shotgun and two handguns, A SIG and a 10mm Glock. He left the shotgun [not the .223 Bushmaster rafle, as incorrectly reported in MANY outlets] in the vehicle in the parking lot.

3: Inside the school, most of the shooting was done with the rifle, including the fenale school principal and school's female psychiatrist, who were shot repeatedly. Many of the children he shot wwere shot with the rifle, at least some with multiple wounds, though it is not clear if these are multiple bullet strikes or through-and- through injuries in some of the reports.

Sources *here* and *here*

44 posted on 12/31/2012 7:27:16 PM PST by archy
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To: Scoutmaster
One of the handguns to kill himself.

Reportedly, The 10mm Glock 20SF:

Lanza stopped shooting between 9:46 a.m. and 9:49 a.m., after firing 50 to 100 rounds.[44] He shot all of his victims multiple times, and at least one victim, six-year-old Noah Pozner, 11 times.[45][46] He shot mostly in two first-grade classrooms, killing fourteen in one room and six in the other. The student victims were eight boys and twelve girls, between six and seven years of age,[47] and the six adults were all women who worked at the school. After realizing that he had been spotted by a police officer who had entered the building, Lanza committed suicide by shooting himself in the head. ... .

A large quantity of unused ammunition was recovered at the school, along with three semi-automatic firearms found with Adam Lanza: a .223-caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock 20 SF handgun and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun.

45 posted on 12/31/2012 7:36:01 PM PST by archy
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray; Squantos
There are a lot of AR and AK pistol variants in the back pages of shotgun news. For the life of me I can't see them being of any practical use.

Never crewed on a BTR or BMP personnel carrier, have you? Or a Soviet-era tank, MUCH more cramped inside than in the US M1A2 Abrams. The Russian tankisti find the shorty AKSU suchka very handy going in and out of the hatches, and so do the rest of us who work from the confines of smaller vehicles and aircraft.


46 posted on 12/31/2012 7:45:15 PM PST by archy
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Auto Ordinance makes a .223? It looks just like a .45 ACP w/o the shoulder stock, and yes, I know that AO makes a .45 semiautomatic pistol as pictured.

To most in the media {not me; I'm a retired newspaperman and photog] they're all deadly 150-shot machine assault AK47s capable of spewing 100 deadly child-killer bullets per second.

47 posted on 12/31/2012 7:47:59 PM PST by archy
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Auto Ordinance makes a .223? It looks just like a .45 ACP w/o the shoulder stock, and yes, I know that AO makes a .45 semiautomatic pistol as pictured.

To most in the media {not me; I'm a retired newspaperman and photog] they're all deadly 150-shot machine assault AK47s capable of spewing 100 deadly child-killer bullets per second.

48 posted on 12/31/2012 7:48:06 PM PST by archy
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To: archy
Tankers and air crew need more compact weapons, there is no doubt. Mostly they wind up with short barreled versions of their military's version of assault rifle with a folding stock. An example being the AK-74 Krinker. We had folding stocks for M1 carbines in WWII for tankers and paratroopers. I'm talking about "pistols" with no shoulder support, decreased sight radius, a large magazine making the weapon muzzle heavy, and military versions having full auto capability. Sounds to me like a fire hose for spraying lead in the general direction of the target. I'm not familiar with the shorty AKSU suchka does it have no stock at all or a folding stock?. I've seen M-16 based weapons cut down to 12" barrels with the gas impingement system replaced with a piston design, eliminating the buffer tube and allowing a true folding stock. There is a new M-16 variant firing the 6.8 cartridge which is compacted to truly diminutive dimensions but I have never seen a pistol design of AK or AR (as featured in shotgun news) deployed by any major military for field use.

Regards,
GtG

49 posted on 12/31/2012 11:33:58 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: chooseascreennamepat

Whichever one best fits their agenda at any given time.


50 posted on 12/31/2012 11:43:30 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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