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Letter Re: Population Density, Traffic and Getting Out of Dodge
survivalblog.com ^ | 11/27/12 | James Rawles

Posted on 11/26/2012 9:42:52 PM PST by Kartographer

Coming home on Sunday I saw 15 accidents in a 20 mile stretch, one accident involving six cars in a tailgating fender bender. Most others were 1-2 cars, or single run off the road flat tire accidents.

This was under a 'holiday' weekend Wednesday and Sunday. What is going to happen when these folks are 'bugging out' like they hear on television? And if there is a real emergency? Where are they going to go if everyone along an Interstate Highway is bugging out at the same time? All points of the compass are going to be a parking lot within 10 miles of any major population center. Then What? Everybody gets out and walks? They wouldn't make it 100 yards before collapsing.

I don't think I can last long enough to get a piece of property and make preps, outside from the city. So I am trying to prep on site, until after the wave flows over us. I fear the European crisis and the Middle East war expanding. It is coming like a freight train and I can't get out of the way.

(Excerpt) Read more at survivalblog.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: preparedness; preppers
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This is a subject often kicked around among preppers. Of course the best situation is to actually live in your Bugout Location, but for many that's not possible. But before you set off for your location you will need a good head start, which means constant vigilance and excellent situational awareness. I can't imagine a worse case scenario than being caught on the open road (Or maybe I should say a totally traffic grid shutdown) with only your 72 hour kit and surrounded by panic stricken and desperate people.
1 posted on 11/26/2012 9:42:59 PM PST by Kartographer
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


2 posted on 11/26/2012 9:44:33 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
I can't imagine a worse case scenario than being caught on the open road (Or maybe I should say a totally traffic grid shutdown) with only your 72 hour kit and surrounded by panic stricken and desperate people.

I can think of a worse case scenario, but it involves a wedding.

I live where I'm going to die, so land navigation isn't a top concern, even though I've got maps, compasses, and everything but a 2nd LT.

/johnny

3 posted on 11/26/2012 9:52:11 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Hey a 2nd LT. could come in hand especially if you can run fast than he can! ;-)


4 posted on 11/26/2012 9:54:02 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer; Marcella
I have a habit of misplacing them. ;)

Marcella has a story about trying to evacuate that is both illuminating and heartrending, if we can get her to share about emergency travel.

/johnny

5 posted on 11/26/2012 10:05:22 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer

ATV with an oversized fuel tank,a boat an ultralight or a hot air balloon, take them as suggestions.

First off forget the highways. Either get above the road, around the road or use the river.

I recently picked up a used snowmachine that in a pinch will work as a bug out device. Out of most disaster scene movies trail bikes win the day.

So unless you have a Sikorsky Skycrane at your disposal to bring you car along and to get past the massive fleeing orgy of crazed armed soccer moms I would forget about using the roads, plan on living where you can use a river, or better yet a swamp with an airboat, even zombies fear crocs.


6 posted on 11/26/2012 10:05:30 PM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: Kartographer

I still think the whole “bug out” idea is suicide, unless you are willing/able to do it via the back country on horseback.

The first 3% might get out before some clown with a near-empty tank runs out on the road ahead of you and you are trapped - open and vulnerable, prime pickings for people on foot or atv’s who are searching for supplies.


7 posted on 11/26/2012 10:21:00 PM PST by djf (Conservative values help the poor. Liberal values help them STAY poor!!!)
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To: Eye of Unk

What about finding a ‘hideout’ somewhat close to home, away from the neighborhood (which will be burned to the ground) and away from the roads? Forming an army in advance of SHTF times, consisting of people in the neighborhood would be nice. Unfortunately, too many citizens are in 0bamabot mode and stuck in ‘normalcy bias’ mode. Not so sure they’d make great ‘soldiers’ anyway and would probably be a liability or even a turncoat when the food supply runs low. ‘Donner pass’ comes to mind.


8 posted on 11/26/2012 10:29:08 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: djf

For the vast majority of Americans, there will be an abundance of LUCK involved in staying alive. No doubt about that, given today’s total breakdown in morality and ethics. Mad Maxville here we come..


9 posted on 11/26/2012 10:32:24 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: All


Some make more than one donation
Many make none
Have YOU contributed?


10 posted on 11/26/2012 10:35:16 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“Marcella has a story about trying to evacuate that is both illuminating and heartrending, if we can get her to share about emergency travel.”

I’ll post that for you shortly.


11 posted on 11/26/2012 10:39:04 PM PST by Marcella (When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.)
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To: Kartographer

You don’t have to speculate what would happen during a mass bug-out. Just go back and look at the Katrina evacuation. Remember all the people who ran out of gas on the highway and blocked the entire road for hours?

Gridlock happens in a mass bugout. You would be better off living on the shore of a lake or navigable river and bugging out by boat. That would mean keeping a prepped vehicle in storage and keeping it ready to roll at a moment’s notice, and keeping it in a place of low density where you won’t experience gridlock there either.

I guess another way would be to live on the edge of town with ready access to dirt roads that connect to highways at some point. If you lived right at the edge of a desert, prairie or mountain and could just 4-wheel overland to a highway an hour or so away, then you could also avoid the density.

About the only thing you can count on is that there will be many unexpected things screwing you up at the worst times.


12 posted on 11/26/2012 10:45:54 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: Kartographer

If your bug out location is in the country and you are in the city make sure you have multiple routes to get to the location.

Preferable via the not very well known gravel roads.


13 posted on 11/26/2012 10:46:15 PM PST by GraceG
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To: djf
Bug out is a great idea for me if my house gets thrashed in a tornado.

I can do it on foot. I have the equipment at the front door ready to go. I can be in a place that is safer than a thrashed house in about 10 minutes, without a flashlight, in the dark, without glasses (which are all in the bag if I'll slow down).

Depends on the situation. I worry mostly about tornados and straight line wind damage, and wildfires than anything else.

/johnny

14 posted on 11/26/2012 10:47:58 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
If you think morality and ethics will keep you alive if the Shtf you will be dead wrong, dead and wrong. I hope your family is not counting on that for survival.
15 posted on 11/26/2012 10:47:58 PM PST by oldenuff2no
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To: oldenuff2no
If you think morality and ethics will keep you alive if the Shtf you will be dead wrong,

I don't intend to rape, pillage, steal, or bear false witness regardless of the circumstances.

I will however, make quick value judgements about risk to myself and those I protect. Followed by whatever action is required.

I never intend to abandon my morality.

There are worse things than dying.

/johnny

16 posted on 11/26/2012 10:54:09 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer

Good of you to bring this to the fore. Bugging out is not the panacea most seem to think it is.


17 posted on 11/26/2012 10:57:15 PM PST by ProfoundMan (Time to finish the Reagan Revolution!)
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To: oldenuff2no

Yes, I was counting on morality and ethics, and nothing else to survive. /s


18 posted on 11/26/2012 11:15:38 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: JRandomFreeper; Kartographer

I wrote this for Survival Podcast where I post prepper articles and I added a little more detail for you about the nature of the surgery:

An example of my not being properly prepared when an unexpected emergency happened: This happened when this whole area of a hundred miles or more, mostly north and south and lesser miles east and west, lost power in the evening and no one knew why.

It was hot Texas summer, and a few weeks before this happened, my husband had very bad surgery and he was too weak/sick to stay in a very hot house. This surgery was unusual and most who have it do not survive. The surgeon did a bypass of his aorta artery that goes down the abdomen into his legs, and replaced that aorta with a nylon aorta, so the incision went from his ribs down his abdomen and into both legs.

I had to get him out of the house to a cool place. A neighbor said she talked to her sister who lived about 50 miles west and she had power. We determined to go that direction.

First, I had to gather what both of us needed to exist since I had no idea why power was off so didn’t when it would come back; news from the power company was they didn’t know why it went off and didn’t know when it would come back (strange situation but it happened). It was dark in the house - had to find a flashlight, go upstairs and gather clothes, personal supplies, all his necessary medicines and mine, go back downstairs, still using flashlight, grab a gallon jug of water, some kind of food to sustain us in the car since I didn’t know how long it would take us to get out of the massive car jam of thousands of people trying to get out of the area and didn’t know how far west we would have to go to find lodging once we got in an area with power.

Yes, I was frantic inside the dark house trying to find vital items we needed. I wasn’t even sure where a flashlight was when the power went out. It was pure luck we had a decent amount of cash and the car had just been filled. Without power, gas stations couldn’t pump gas and no ATM machine worked.

It was pitch black outside and no traffic lights. We got on the freeway and it was a nightmare with what seemed a million cars trying to get out of the area. As soon as we could, we took a farm to market road to the west to get away from the cars on the freeway. Going was slow because we didn’t know when we would come to a crossroad since no traffic signals worked so we watched for crossings constantly.

After we made our way west to power, we had to keep going more miles to find a vacancy in a hotel as others had gotten to that area before we did. We lost time because we couldn’t leave the house quickly to get ahead of some of the traffic.

Look at all the mistakes I made - my husband’s life was truly in jeopardy due to my lack of preparation to be able to leave the house quickly with what we needed and we would have been totally stuck in place if the car had needed gasoline. I was prepared for staying in place for a hurricane right then but not for quickly leaving my house. I vowed this would never happen to me again.

Don’t let the above happen to you. You can easily prepare now to leave your house quickly to go to a place of safety. A simple way to do it, is, gather what’s needed for a few days including a change of clothes, every necessary item you would need including water and already prepared food (food items such as those individual packets of tuna, crackers, granola type bars, cheese/cracker packets, etc.), plus a flashlight, pack it in a box and station that box close to the exit you use to get to your car. Make sure you know where a flashlight is in your house and always keep it in that place with good batteries.

After researching, I bought two Life Gear’s Wings of Life survival backpacks. Each is a three day survival pack with food, water and essential survival gear. Won’t list what’s included in them because the list is extremely long; you can look them up on the web if you want to know. There is also room to pack a change of clothes and other items you that are essential to you, such as personal medicines.

These two backpacks are in my most secure room fairly near my front door - the bathroom - that’s the most secure room in my house in case of a tornado. If the house falls down and we’re still alive in the bathroom, we’ve got three days of everything we need in those backpacks - and if we need to leave the house quickly at any time, all we need to do is grab those bags and we’re gone.

I did prepare another bag (on wheels), with more food and a way to warm it - think soup with meat/veggies and instant oatmeal, small can coffee, canned heat and Sterno stove for heating/cooking) and other items (one being camping metal plates/cups/utensils, plus two Melitta plastic filter cones and paper filters to make coffee). That bag is stationed not far from the bathroom to grab and roll out with us and the backpacks.

I wrote this article when my husband was still alive. He lived years after that and died a year ago last August with cancer of the brain.


19 posted on 11/26/2012 11:19:46 PM PST by Marcella (When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.)
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To: ProfoundMan; JRandomFreeper

Bugging out may not be a panacea for all SHTF scenarios, but a bugout plan and supplies have a lot to recommend themselves in many natural disasters/emergency evacuation scenarios.

Luck favors the prepared.


20 posted on 11/26/2012 11:21:00 PM PST by Valpal1
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To: djf; Kartographer; blam; The Duke; WakeUpAndVote; JRandomFreeper; Bride Of Old Sarge; ...

I have heard both sides: that bugging out will make you die, and bugging in will make you die. Only you and your tribe know your situation best.

There was an article on another prepper forum (wish I had saved it for now) about a group in lower Michigan who planned to bug-out on horseback. One weekend, they put their plan to the test. They were riding something like 75 miles, sixteen people in the line of march. By the end of the trek, none of the original horses were with the party, and thirteen of the sixteen riders had quit. That’s over an 80% attrition rate.


21 posted on 11/26/2012 11:36:07 PM PST by Old Sarge (We are officially over the precipice, we just havent struck the ground yet...)
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To: ProfoundMan

I think the bug out scenario most might be concerned with is the total collapse of the economy and government, and the fate of good folks living in large metro areas subject to the collapse and all the suspected problems associated with food, water, sanitation, law and order, fire protection, education, etc, etc.

Much will depend on the state of the State in which you live as well as the population of the metro area. Any where on the Eastern seaboard, has a huge bugout problem because of folks trying to leave the large metro areas. Can the western part of the eastern seaboard absorb the millions of people leaving metro areas?

I don’t know why, /s but I’m starting to enjoy the fact that I’m six hundred miles from the nearest population center of any size or concern. Folks also should acccess the last time there was a major bugout scenario like Katrina, and try to factor in the known regional, problems times the entire USA.


22 posted on 11/26/2012 11:46:57 PM PST by wita
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To: Marcella

Thanks for sharing!

Sorry for your loss.


23 posted on 11/26/2012 11:56:42 PM PST by wita
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
if the economy collapses, whatever that means, we'll have feral inner city yutes riding around in stolen cars with stolen gas with their stolen guns....no one will be safe....rape, assault, murder....

better get to know your neighbors...

invite sound family members into your home....the more bodies to protect your house/family the better.....

we're going all have to learn to become families again...

24 posted on 11/27/2012 12:52:27 AM PST by cherry
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To: Kartographer

Or, .... the correct firearms, the needed number of compatriots, the perfect volumn of ammunition, ... and nuetralize everything that moves in an ever increasing circle around the currant location.


25 posted on 11/27/2012 1:31:20 AM PST by exnavy (Got ammo, Godspeed!)
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To: Old Sarge
By the end of the trek, none of the original horses were with the party, and thirteen of the sixteen riders had quit. That’s over an 80% attrition rate.

Horses adn people in poor condition. Trail riders cone into our area for recreation. Few can make over 10 to 15 miles in a day and heaven forbid doing that several days in a row. A well conditioned cow pony can do 30-50 miles a day for several days on reasonable terrain.

26 posted on 11/27/2012 3:59:31 AM PST by Lion Den Dan
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To: oldenuff2no

Morals and ethics are the only thing keeping you from being murdered today. Other peoples morals and ethics.


27 posted on 11/27/2012 4:17:53 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: cherry

“if the economy collapses, whatever that means, we’ll have feral inner city yutes riding around in stolen cars with stolen gas with their stolen guns....no one will be safe....rape, assault, murder”

They won’t be riding far. Look at what just happened in NY/NJ. They only went to neighboring towns. They sure won’t be walking far either.

It won’t be just “feral inner city yutes” who do loot. Here in Florida after hurricanes the looters are out before the wind dies down.

Looters, thieves, rapists and so forth will hit every area up until the roads are blocked and the gas runs out. Then it will be the govt forces doing the stealing.


28 posted on 11/27/2012 4:27:08 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Other peoples morals and ethics.

And now after the recent election we know where many of those people morals and ethics lay.
29 posted on 11/27/2012 4:41:01 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
We bought our 12 acre farm in rural Kentucky two weeks before the 2008 election. We moved here from our home of 45 years, Seattle, in August of 2011. You can't see the house unless you are on the top of the property near the house. The "yard" is about 8 acres.

It is like paradise. Literally. And it is how we feel about it. Every day.

The monthly payments are less than the taxes were on our place in Seattle. The commute is longer, but I drive it at 65-70 mph almost all the way. I still enjoy it.

I've built a few buildings since, and a large garden about 40 feet in front of the house, but here it is a month after we moved and I had completed the rear deck.

I can shoot deer or Turkey out my bedroom window, though the latter is very skittish. We have 22 chickens now that free-range around the house. For fun I hand feed them cracked hickory nuts from our trees. They climb all over me trying to get at them. Evenings are quite often just as beautiful and inviting as the photo suggests. And when the SHTF, it won't be pretty, but we'll survive. Probably.

I highly recommend going Galt. It can be done.

30 posted on 11/27/2012 4:42:19 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Marcella

Thanks. This is an excellent story because it shows an atypical scenario and unexpected emergency. Also, that shelter from heat can be as important as shelter from cold. And it demonstrates why a bug-out kit is needed. No matter how strong your intent to stay put, some situations can force you to move and create a need to move quickly.


31 posted on 11/27/2012 4:53:10 AM PST by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
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To: cuban leaf

That is the most awesome picture...congrats to you.


32 posted on 11/27/2012 5:10:25 AM PST by Mich Patriot (PITCH BLACK is the new "transparent")
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To: cuban leaf

If you EVER plan to sell that place, please let me know.


33 posted on 11/27/2012 5:12:08 AM PST by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America; Old Sarge; djf; blam; The Duke; WakeUpAndVote; JRandomFreeper; ...
"What about finding a ‘hideout’ somewhat close to home"

This is something I am carefully considering. My thought is possible look at a out of the way long vacant commercial building of some kind. Something with a drive in back door so I can pull in vehicles out of sight something with a 'front showroom' which would be visible to the passerby, which I would not use, but set-up like a stage; thrash empty paint buckets, piles of debris. Something with a large 'warehouse' like area in the back in which camp could be set-up. Possibly using prefab yard barn type structures for live space something small and cozy using the building merely as a 'windbreak' 'weatherbreak' and the flat roof would lend itself to a good place to setup an un-observable solar array.

The set-up would appear as a vacant empty building with of no interest to looters and thieves and the view-able front area would actually be set-up as a 'fly trap' should anyone decide to enter they would quickly find out that they 'done put their foot in it'. Of course strict light, sound and outside movement protocols would have to be set would have to be observe, but I think such a set-up could get you through the initial 'shock awe' of a major event.
34 posted on 11/27/2012 5:13:40 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Interesting thread. Thanks for posting — and for adding me to your ping list!


35 posted on 11/27/2012 5:14:59 AM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: cuban leaf

Welcome to the Bluegrass, FRiend!


36 posted on 11/27/2012 5:24:34 AM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around.")
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To: cuban leaf

Beautiful! I love the Bluegrass.

I’m sure many here have read Rawles’ books - Patriots, Survivors, Founders...
the stories contain several bug out scenarios.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wesley_Rawles


37 posted on 11/27/2012 5:40:39 AM PST by spankalib (The downside of liberty is the need to tolerate those who despise it.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“I can think of a worse case scenario, but it involves a wedding”

Ok, now that just made me spit coffee. Thanks for the morning chuckle!


38 posted on 11/27/2012 5:53:50 AM PST by LadyBuck (In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher')
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To: LadyBuck; JRandomFreeper; Marcella
“I can think of a worse case scenario, but it involves a wedding”

And considering we are talking about Johnny here a shotgun is surely involved in the scenario as well. ;-)
39 posted on 11/27/2012 5:57:53 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
The set-up would appear as a vacant empty building with of no interest to looters and thieves

wouldn't that make it attractive to people trying to do what you are doing?

40 posted on 11/27/2012 6:30:59 AM PST by Abundy
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To: Abundy

Until you read my post had you ever considered doing it?

Also I don’t mean doing it at the time of the trouble but beforehand. Moving hundreds of gallons of potable water while SHTF isn’t as easy as bugging out. The place should be prepped before hand.

Besides people bugging out are like a stamped they follow the leader and don’t stop to ask where he’s going. Few will have the wit enough to evaluate their options.

Besides before I mentioned it did you ever consider such a plan?


41 posted on 11/27/2012 6:40:16 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

My homestead is fairly defensible - heavy brier/bramble scrub woods around most of it with a clear shot up the drive which is 300’ long and funnels over a culvert bridge as the main opening in the mix. Wooded areas behind and to both sides, with access being via neighbors’ lands mean folks would have to go through them to approach me. I’m also an old deer hunter from NY who used to have to nestle down in such areas with my rifle waiting for a shot...


42 posted on 11/27/2012 6:42:20 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: Lion Den Dan
A well conditioned cow pony can do 30-50 miles a day for several days on reasonable terrain.

I would have no problem with 30 miles a day except for one small item.... my butt would fall off, and I'd never walk again.

Riding a horse is truly something you need to do on a regular basis to do it well over a long period of time.

Same with bicycles, btw. I recently got a bicycle for local trips and blithely headed out to the grocery store, a 4 mile round trip.

Since it had been 35 years since I'd been on a bike, it quite earnestly kicked my @$$.

I can do the ride today with no problem, but you don't just wake up one day and do it.

/johnny

43 posted on 11/27/2012 6:44:51 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer
actually no, have considered hunkering place or bugging out to my fall back location

either COA has its risks versus benefits

having now been given something else to consider I still don't think it's an option

having some experience with ne'er-do-wells I would put the odds at 95% that your location becomes compromised prior to ever needing it...the type of location you describe are routinely utilized by homeless, gangs, crack ho's and others

I think that in my area the likelihood of location compromise is more at 100%

just my $.02

44 posted on 11/27/2012 7:02:50 AM PST by Abundy
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To: Abundy; Kartographer
Empty commercial buildings around here routinely get broken into and copper stolen from them. Even in a semi-rural area.

The family estate owned a building like what you talk about, and we spent a lot of time, effort, and money protecting it after ferals noticed it was empty.

We finally sold the building this year, thank goodness.

/johnny

45 posted on 11/27/2012 7:08:41 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer

Good topic. How to GET OUT if you want to, AND what is your plan to get ‘home’ so you CAN BUG OUT as planned.

What follows is *my* thoughts. Your mileage may vary. AND you may not plan to bug out. So be it.

1. The best tactic overall as posters have suggested, including you, is to bug out *before* general realization sets in. Being able to sense sooner and react/adapt faster/better is *KEY*. That awareness is a BIG part of prepping— more than just stockpiling. AND as MANY have pointed out, *IF* the first time you try your load out is when you bug out, you are screwed. Plan, practice, drill at least once. Have your list, prioritized; know WHO is responsible for WHAT, and in which vehicle. Know WHERE your stuff is in every room. Make sure you don’t have to waste time debating and discovering. Some ‘family’ members may get there an hour after you leave, and they should have their manifest waiting for them. Leave a pre-determined tell tale behind if you want to, but the fact that you have left should be obvious.

2. Have a pre-planned code to send to your ‘family’ to let them know ‘you’ are headed out and they should too. Much like “eject eject eject!” make it systematic that they do not NEED to respond or confirm, but should if they can. BUT they should execute the evac order ASAP. Your plans may mean everybody meets at the house and goes, or people just go from where they are — up to you. My plan is not your plan.

3. Have PAPER maps in each vehicle that show alternate routes — so you can adapt, overcome, improvise — if your primary route is obstructed or dangerous or both. *IF* you are truly paranoid, DO NOT mark your final destination on ANYTHING hard copy or otherwise easily be discovered. Have code words for rally points along the way.

4. split up possessions among travelers/vehicles so that if you lose one vehicle for any reason, or one person won’t/can’t make it, you don’t have a single point of failure.

4.1 If in a multi-vehicle ‘convoy’ approaching suspicious civilians, assume your first vehicle will get the most attention. Recommended formation is scout vehicle first, guns/shooters second, people and possessions third.

5. Have CHARGED and TESTED mobile radios in all vehicles with known frequencies and privacy pre-determined. Your cell phones WILL become unreliable. A set of four GOOD Midland “LMR” radios with earpieces (Bass Pro Shop e.g.) will run you $170+/-.

6. Have your barter items ready. Have your CHARITY items ready. But have it ALL under tarps.

7. If you are *still* mobile and en route at the 72 hour mark in a SHTF scenario, you should PRESUME some people are desperate and will act barbarically. at 72 hours, travel should be presumed to be treacherous. That is three days into BAD times.

8. For us, and not for everybody I know, two out of three of our available vehicles are 4X4. We have the option of going off paved roads to get out of blockages if we must, and towing any other vehicle that’s 2WD. AND since our last mile requires 4X4, one vehicle gets parked as close as possible, unloaded, drained and stripped in a full SHTF scenario

9. (IF) When the balloon goes up, you may not BE where you want to be. Have a GET HOME kit and a GET HOME plan at all times. Also have your family prepared to LEAVE without you. Sorry. My family NEEDS to get out of the Atlanta area FAR before 72 hours ... whether I am in town or not. I know where to go if I can.

10. *IF* you MUST stop along the way, what’s your plan to be safe RIGHT THERE?

11. On these threads, people seldom mention footwear. Do you have 100 mile footwear (shoes AND socks)? Imagine the worth of a decent pair of shoes in a barter situation — when someone else has bare, freezing, cut feet - they need socks and shoes

12. THINK THIS THROUGH, end to end.

so much more is waiting to be discussed. Hope and pray it never HAPPENS.


46 posted on 11/27/2012 7:26:15 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Kartographer
My thought is possible look at a out of the way long vacant commercial building of some kind. Something with a drive in back door so I can pull in vehicles out of sight something with a 'front showroom' which would be visible to the passerby, which I would not use, but set-up like a stage; thrash empty paint buckets, piles of debris.

Some relatives did this many years ago. The front showroom was filled with junk and looked vacant. The problem with that is it appeared vacant which made it a prime target for vandals. The garage was in the center section but was only one vehicle wide so it was a hassle to get to another vehicle. The back was the residence which had it's own problems. They never knew what was happening on the roadside of the building and never knew when someone was approaching until they were at the door. Again, being away from the street, it was out of sight from passerbys if there was an emergency. The whole set up creeped me out and even as a kid with no thought of SHTF, I could see the problems. Nothing wrong with the concept, but they didn't think things through.

47 posted on 11/27/2012 7:26:44 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Marcella

Sorry for your loss, thanks for sharing. I had a somewhat similar situation, except it was a chimney fire and my dad had just gotten home from having a stroke and still couldn’t walk yet. My mom and I had to ‘bug-out’ pretty quick, but thankfully she had all her meds in one place.

We didn’t have to deal with other motorists as in your example, but we only had about 5 minutes to get out of the house safely. The car tank was 3/4 full (like it always is), it had an emergency first aid kit, blanket, wind-up flashlight, and packaged juices and water. My mom was diabetic so she always had to have little snacks and juices in case her sugar suddenly dropped. In retrospect there is a lot more we could have been prepared for, as in your preps, with a 3-day supply easily reachable when even 5 minutes of prep is a luxury.

We lose power here so often that we have flashlights next to our sofas, beds, and in hallways—the pluggable, rechargeable lights that are light-sensing and turn on automatically.

Both are with Jesus now, so I have less to worry about in a natural disaster (usually snow, ice storms or hurricanes here) or a serious SHTF. I’m in my bug-out location, but if a wildfire or something took this out (I’m surrounded by woods, most of which is state forest), I need to formulate a back-up plan. I’m thinking a dual-sport motorcycle might be a good option for me. I already know 5 different ways to get out of this area w/o going on a major highway and ride them 8-9 months of the year on my regular motorcycle.


48 posted on 11/27/2012 7:51:47 AM PST by Betis70 ("Leading from Behind" gets your Ambassador killed)
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To: Kartographer

Kart-

Good tread and some really good advice/points to ponder. I had thoughts of buying several acres with a large shop building and then parking a motorhome or fifth-wheel in the shop as “home”. May need to rethink that after reading this as it appears that the real problem with a bugout location is the very strong possibilty that it will NOT be unmolested awaiting your arrival. This ain’t the ‘50’s!!


49 posted on 11/27/2012 8:13:15 AM PST by Donkey Odious ( Adapt, improvise, and overcome - now a motto for us all.)
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To: JRandomFreeper; All
I can do the ride today with no problem, but you don't just wake up one day and do it

That's the same with most things. There's a learning curve. Those people who have a freezer stocked with heirloom seeds will starve to death unless they have a garden already going. Same for those who have a gun or other weapon stored in a closet who haven't used it in years or never used it. Just walking further than the end of the block will do many people in. Sure, they claim they're going to go all Mad Max but many couldn't change a flat tire much less be able to get out of Dodge in their low to the ground not so Smart cars. They'll be sitting on the side of gridlocked highways blubbering because their gps and i-phones won't tell them what to do.

Katrina and Sandy showed us that getting out of Dodge is all about timing and a good set of paper maps. Look to the warning signs and act while there's still time. Be prepared to move at a moment's notice. Have various routes marked out and drive them ahead of time. Never let the gas tank get below half and/or have extra fuel stored. Know where you're headed and have back up destinations.

Back during the Cuban Missile Crisis, my parents never let the tank get below half. Many people had backyard shelters though those might not have been anymore safe than our teachers having us do drills by crawling under our desks. We had two destinations, one an hour away and the second an hour beyond that. Both were/are relatively self sufficient and away from the city. BTW, we're living in the first one now and still have part of the other one but the parcel the house is on was sold and has illegals living in it, sigh. We've wanted to put one of those little pre-made cabins on it but just don't have the budget.

Katrina and Sandy also showed us that the zombies will stay in the city and won't venture far outside the metropolitan areas. Anyone outside an hour's drive (normal hour's drive) is probably safe for a two month upheavel. FYI, you Texas folk, stop by your local tourist center or chamber of commerce and pick up FREE maps of surrounding counties. They're brown with blue writing on the front. IIRC, they're published by a company in Llano but the owners are only there part time and won't return calls so you're on your own getting maps outside your area. They show the little nothing back roads, show locales such as churches and cemeteries, and mileage down to 10ths so are handy to have in your vehicle.

50 posted on 11/27/2012 8:22:33 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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