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What happens if I opt out?
vanity

Posted on 11/08/2012 9:09:59 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville

It is time to renew benefits for 2013 at my place of employment - a fortune 100 company. I've been waiting for the election to be over to see which way the winds of misfortune blow before deciding to continue with my current health care plan or just let the government take care of me. Now that it looks like Obamacare will be the tax law of the land, can anyone tell me what penalty will be imposed and who would collect it if I opt out of my company's health insurance?

Are others thinking of doing this? I know it isn't the smartest thing in the world to be without health care coverage when it is readily available and the company picks up most of that cost but what other considerations can y'all think of that might be pertinent to this decision?

Oh, and I think Oklahoma is one of the states that told the Feds to pound salt but who knows where that leaves Okies when this all shakes out.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: obamacare
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Anyone studied up on this?
1 posted on 11/08/2012 9:10:00 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville
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To: YankeeinOkieville

You’ll get a yearly tax bill from the IRS for $2500 or some such thing. You can’t be off the rolls without paying for it. That’s why it went to SCOTUS.


2 posted on 11/08/2012 9:13:11 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

Just wait about 6 weeks. Your company will opt out for you.


3 posted on 11/08/2012 9:13:50 AM PST by llevrok
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To: llevrok

If you don’t stay on your company plan then you are making a poor choice. Your employer will not opt out and/or drop you. It makes more sense for them to maintain their company plan (which is most likely partially self-insured). So talk to HR but don’t put your family at risk


4 posted on 11/08/2012 9:18:09 AM PST by GerardKempf (Let's Get Over This)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

It would be good to have catastrophic health insurance, at the least.

Shop at your company, if they offer just that, or on the open market.

low cost/very high deductible/ no fringes


5 posted on 11/08/2012 9:19:07 AM PST by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: llevrok

You are so right. Once obamacare really starts being implemented, people with private insurance are going to be FURIOUS. I would think at last 30% of all companies will drop health care and dump everyone into the govt run crap.

obamacare was always designed to morph into single-payer and people were too stupid to see it. The GOP could have been in a position to gain untold numbers of seats in Congress, and the Presidency, if they weren’t so inept.

As it stands now, I have no clue where voters will go once the SHTF, but it won’t be the GOP, unless they clean house.


6 posted on 11/08/2012 9:19:37 AM PST by Sporke (USS Iowa BB-61)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

As with all socialist schemes, you are not allowed to opt out. You may not be interested in socialism, but socialism is interested in you. (and especially in your assets and all future income)


7 posted on 11/08/2012 9:20:11 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: rarestia
You’ll get a yearly tax bill from the IRS for $2500 or some such thing.

Not that much right away. My understanding is that the penalty is phased in over a few years. A couple hundred dollars the first year, little more the next....Eventually it will be $2,500.

But notice, even when it gets to $2,500, it is still *significantly* cheaper than buying a health-insurance policy. This is by design:

Nobody will purchase insurance until they are sick (they'll pay the cheaper penalty). Then, when they get sick, they will purchase a policy, since no company can deny them for pre-existing.

Within a few years, all insurance companies will go broke, with no healthy people paying in. Or the companies will see the writing on the wall, and just get out. Either way, all that will be left for us is "public" health insurance.

8 posted on 11/08/2012 9:26:08 AM PST by kevao (Hey, Obama: The 1930s called, they want their economic policy back.)
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To: Sporke

Switch parties: INDEPENDENT!


9 posted on 11/08/2012 9:26:51 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
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To: YankeeinOkieville
If you currently have medical insurance through your company, DO NOT DROP IT. I have extensive personal and work experience with issues involving health insurance, government programs, etc. and I strongly believe that Obamacare is just a massive redistribution scheme that will never give good benefits to the people actually paying for it. I personally would never leave myself and my family at the mercy of Obamacare because I have seen how people who work for a living are denied benefits, while the indolent get free medical care at the best hospitals and don't even have to worry about their credit ratings because the hospitals don't bother to bill people whose profile is deadbeat, illegal, etc.

Every year, at whichever company I am working, I choose the most expensive health plan and I'll continue to do so until my company caves to Obamacare and doesn't offer insurance anymore. When that day comes, I'll pay what I have to to have supplemental medical insurance so that I am not dependent on the government.

10 posted on 11/08/2012 9:30:23 AM PST by utahagen
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To: libertarian27

I’ve been self paying for health care for 3 years, I would like a catastrophic plan. The one thing I have noticed is the price discrepancy between self pay and insurance. It’s generally half price. I had a colonoscopy this year payed in cash and saved all most $1000.00. I have no monthly health insurance bill of $600+. If I can find a high deductible catastrophic plan under $300 a month, that would be certainly do-able but will I be taxed for not having a government approved health plan?


11 posted on 11/08/2012 9:30:31 AM PST by qman (The communist usurper must go!)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

I will refuse to buy insurance under this unconstitutional mandate, and I will also refuse to pay the penalty.

I will exempt myself from this law under the religious exemption clause which unconstitutionally specifies muslims only.

What good is insurance when there are no doctors to spend it with? 44% of surveyed doctors plan on leaving their practices.


12 posted on 11/08/2012 9:35:41 AM PST by Safrguns
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To: Sporke
“obamacare was always designed to morph into single-payer and people were too stupid to see it.”

I agree completely, but this will happen gradually. In the meantime, you’d be nuts to drop your company’s coverage before they stop offering it. What you get through your company will be better than what the government “guarantees” you. In addition, many big companies will use the fact that they offer health insurance as a positive when recruiting employees.

Bottom line: don’t drop your medical insuracne in favor of Obamacare healthcare.

13 posted on 11/08/2012 9:36:47 AM PST by utahagen
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

I left the GOP after Bush was reelected. I don’t consider myself independent. I’m a Constitutionalist. Libertarians are ok, but they tend to have some real whackjobs at their conventions.

I’m so Conservative I scare many Republicans. :)


14 posted on 11/08/2012 9:38:38 AM PST by Sporke (USS Iowa BB-61)
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To: kevao; rarestia

Right now, my portion is around $80/mo and my company pays about twice that. So if I round it out, I’m at just under $1000 contribution and total of $3000 to cover just one person (family has long since grown and gone) and that’s at the middle coverage offered. Dr visits cost $45, cannot quite remember the deductible but co-pay is 70%. $2500 penalty doesn’t sound all that bad, all things considered.

I still don’t know how whatever steps Oklahoma took will figure into this whole thing.


15 posted on 11/08/2012 9:40:11 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville (Obamanation [oh-bom-uh-nay-shuhn] n. -- ignorance and arrogance in the highest offices)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

What does your HR dept say?


16 posted on 11/08/2012 9:41:52 AM PST by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: utahagen

I agree with your comments, but would add that people should NOT be dropping their employer group health insurance at this time, due to we do not want to encourages employers to drop their plans. If there was a tidal wave of people opting out of participation, the employers would be more encouraged to drop their plans. In spite of the woes of 0bamacare, etc., it is prudent for people to keep their employer group coverage as long as possible.


17 posted on 11/08/2012 9:47:44 AM PST by NEMDF
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To: YankeeinOkieville

Never mind the fines and penalties.

Are you prepared to purchase your own health insurance or pay your own way at the doctor’s office?


18 posted on 11/08/2012 9:48:30 AM PST by SandyInSeattle (2 Corinthians 4:8)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

 


19 posted on 11/08/2012 9:49:41 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: stuartcr
What does your HR dept say?

"I don't know."

"I haven't heard anything about a change."

"I guess we'll just have to wait and see."

"I'm about as useless as a one-legged person in a butt-kicking contest."

20 posted on 11/08/2012 9:50:44 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville (Obamanation [oh-bom-uh-nay-shuhn] n. -- ignorance and arrogance in the highest offices)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Are you prepared to purchase your own health insurance or pay your own way at the doctor’s office?

That's what the government is there for . . . apparently

21 posted on 11/08/2012 9:53:45 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville (Obamanation [oh-bom-uh-nay-shuhn] n. -- ignorance and arrogance in the highest offices)
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To: YankeeinOkieville
If your company is like most others, if you drop your coverage you can't pick it up again until next year's open enrollment period.

If your company has an HR benefits department, go talk to them before you make any decisions since it's possible they may be planning to host an employee seminar.

22 posted on 11/08/2012 9:53:45 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

Does your company offer more than one plan? If so, do they offer a high deduct/catastrophic plan? If so, do that one. Don’t drop out if you have any assets you care about.


23 posted on 11/08/2012 9:54:08 AM PST by BipolarBob (I'm joining a Rastafarian cult group and moving to Jamaica.)
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To: Hot Tabasco

see post 20


24 posted on 11/08/2012 9:56:56 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville (Obamanation [oh-bom-uh-nay-shuhn] n. -- ignorance and arrogance in the highest offices)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

I don’t have a choice at my employer.

However, this year I reached the top of my payscale - no more raises indefinitely. Even if I weren’t, salaries are frozen, indefinitely.

I’ve been considering asking my employer if they would hire me as an independent contractor at the same cost to them (perhaps less their 401(k) contribution to help sweeten the deal), and then forming a c-corp to hire myself. So far, the numbers look good, but the health insurance is the big question.

My wife and I are in our 40s and healthy with no children. We’d actually prefer to have some sort of catastrophic coverage and then pay out of pocket for routine stuff and hospital bills, especially if we could swing an HSA like we have now for our high deductible plan.

I googled self-employed health insurance and all I got was a bunch of scam/quote/useless sites though. Not sure where to find good info on what the costs would be and what options there are, plus it’s all subject to change virtually every year for the forseeable future.

I think the first step would be to find a doctor we like that will take cash, but assuming we did that, the rest of it is difficult to nail down.


25 posted on 11/08/2012 9:58:43 AM PST by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: NEMDF

I concur.


26 posted on 11/08/2012 9:59:05 AM PST by utahagen
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To: YankeeinOkieville

If you go with a high deductible plan make sure you open and contribute to an HSA. It’s pre-tax so it is like another 401K.
. and it isn’t “use it or lose it.”


27 posted on 11/08/2012 10:00:58 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: YankeeinOkieville

My wife is working on some of this stuff now for her employer. It is a giant nightmare to understand. Her employer generously pays most of the health insurance costs of its employees and their families. The average employer-paid health benefit is around $1,000 per month.

Under Obamacare, that apparently gets reported as income now and either we will have to pay federal income tax on it, $280 per month, or the emplyer must absorb the additional cost. The employer cannot absorb the additional cost.

The tax penalty will be, I think, $2,500 a year or just a bit less than the taxable portion of the health insurance benefit. In other words, as designed, it is cheaper for Americans to switch to Obamacare and collapse the insurance industry (and its millions of jobs) and collapse the medical industry (which the government will have no choice but to benevolently take over).

In any event, when fully implemented, there will be riots across the land. Idiots voted for other idiots and had no clue what was about to smack them across the face. The largest tax increase in American history. And that tax increase will be on top of the other tax increases that are coming (such as letting the Bush tax cuts expire).

The Democrats successfully implemented a plan to collapse the system from within to make the Marxist ideal fully operational in America. They succeeded.

The time for voting is over. Ignorance won out at the polls. The only recourse for the ignorant masses will be violence.

I will be sitting back with a big bag of popcorn watching that event with a huge smile.


28 posted on 11/08/2012 10:04:41 AM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: utahagen
I personally would never leave myself and my family at the mercy of Obamacare because I have seen how well BIA health care works.

Check into carrying catastrophic care and bank what else you would have paid in so you have it if you need it to cover deductibles and co-pays.

29 posted on 11/08/2012 10:08:12 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: YankeeinOkieville
As a side note, when the govt. came up with Medicare Part D, we sent out notices to all our retirees with insurance coverage specifically telling them NOT to enroll in the plan because what we offered was far superior to the Part D program
30 posted on 11/08/2012 10:08:48 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: dfwgator

Where I work, everyone with an HSA is scrambling to “use it” because in the past they have “lost it”


31 posted on 11/08/2012 10:12:03 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville (Obamanation [oh-bom-uh-nay-shuhn] n. -- ignorance and arrogance in the highest offices)
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To: YankeeinOkieville

“Where I work, everyone with an HSA is scrambling to “use it” because in the past they have “lost it””

That’s an FSA not an HSA.

FSA = Flexible Spending Account. Section 125 healthcare or dependent care account is an annual election where you can pay pretax monies in to an account to be used to pay for unreimbursed healthcare or dependent care expenses. Yes its annual and use it or lose it.

HSA = Health Savings Account. Again an annual election in which you decide how much on a pre tax basis you wish to contribute to the account. It is used to pay deductibles or other expenses associated with a High Deductible medical plan. However, the difference it is is portable and never goes away. So you it doesn’t end on 12/31 and you can take it with you should you leave your employer.

If you are good at managing your expenses and reasonably healthy an HSA plan is a good idea.


32 posted on 11/08/2012 10:35:46 AM PST by Syntyr (Happiness is two at low eight!)
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To: qman

What is catastrophic insurance, never heard of it?


33 posted on 11/08/2012 10:49:04 AM PST by diamond6 (Pray........pray very hard!!)
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To: Syntyr

Thanks for the clarification. So where I work, FSA is the one that is available. Do you know who takes possession of the worker’s unused income that sits in an FSA at the end of the year? Is it the employer, the insurance company, or the government? I’ve never understood why it wouldn’t go to the Joe or Jane who worked and earned it.


34 posted on 11/08/2012 10:49:48 AM PST by YankeeinOkieville (Obamanation [oh-bom-uh-nay-shuhn] n. -- ignorance and arrogance in the highest offices)
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To: utahagen

Will supplemental health insurance even be available?


35 posted on 11/08/2012 10:50:53 AM PST by diamond6 (Pray........pray very hard!!)
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To: YankeeinOkieville
That's what the government is there for . . . apparently

No... you're not getting government insurance in exchange for the fine, because single payer isn't here (yet.) You'll just getting a fine.

My advice, FWIW? Don't do anything rash. Getting health insurance back will not be as easy as dropping it.

36 posted on 11/08/2012 11:07:49 AM PST by SandyInSeattle (2 Corinthians 4:8)
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To: Sporke
As it stands now, I have no clue where voters will go once the SHTF, but it won’t be the GOP, unless they clean house.

They might go Librarian; Gary Johnson got about 1% of the general vote, and he's virtually unknown outside of New Mexico.

37 posted on 11/08/2012 11:24:51 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: YankeeinOkieville
(Argh! I swore I was going back to lurking...)

If you do not buy health insurance, you will not have health insurance. That means that any and all medical bills you accrue, you will have to pay out of your own pocket. In addition, because you did not buy health insurance, you will owe a tax penalty. If you decide to wait until you are very ill to buy insurance, you will be on the hook for any medical expenses you incur before it kicks in. You can avoid that by delaying your care, but in a lot of cases, such a delay would be fatal.

"Obamacare" is not a health insurance plan you get by default. You do not get health insurance because you pay the tax penalty.

Obamacare does require that the federal government put a plan on the market for people with no other options. One of the options being considered is opening the Government Employees insurance company to all comers (I forget what it's called, but it's a non-profit pseudo-governmental company). Again, you don't have to buy insurance from that company unless you want to.

Bottom line: if you have access to insurance through your employer, take it.

38 posted on 11/08/2012 11:37:41 AM PST by Mr. Know It All
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To: libertarian27
It would be good to have catastrophic health insurance, at the least.

Are those even still available? I know that specific policies for cancer, heart, etc. are still around as "supplemental" policies.

39 posted on 11/08/2012 12:08:15 PM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: FerociousRabbit
Under Obamacare, that apparently gets reported as income now and either we will have to pay federal income tax on it, $280 per month, or the emplyer must absorb the additional cost. The employer cannot absorb the additional cost.

But supposedly, the reporting of health care costs paid on behalf of employees was only to verify that coverage is provided... not that it would be taxable....

I'm going to contact my Congressman and pick his brain (if there is any left after this crappy election).

40 posted on 11/08/2012 12:14:49 PM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: Safrguns

How do the muslims get a pass on this? Who pays their healthcare?


41 posted on 11/08/2012 12:31:27 PM PST by Himyar
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To: Himyar

>>>How do the muslims get a pass on this? Who pays their healthcare?

It’s a clause in the affordable health care act. Muslims are exempt from the insurance mandate for religious reasons. (muslims believe insurance is gambling)

I suppose they pay out of pocket for services.

I would be interested though to find out how many muslims actually do carry some form of health insurance.


42 posted on 11/08/2012 12:43:41 PM PST by Safrguns
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To: diamond6
I predict the free market — what is left of the free market, that is — will come up with something akin to the concierge medical practices that currently exist, where people pay 10k or 20k a year of their own dollars (insurance not accepted) to have immediate access to a network of top doctors in every field. I don't think what will arise will be billed as “insurance”, because that would be regulated. Rather, I think they'll be networks of doctors who don't accept insurance who will be willing to take you on as a patient at some predetermined price if you belong to a private network.
43 posted on 11/08/2012 1:07:41 PM PST by utahagen
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To: diamond6
I predict the free market — what is left of the free market, that is — will come up with something akin to the concierge medical practices that currently exist, where people pay 10k or 20k a year of their own dollars (insurance not accepted) to have immediate access to a network of top doctors in every field. I don't think what will arise will be billed as “insurance”, because that would be regulated. Rather, I think they'll be networks of doctors who don't accept insurance who will be willing to take you on as a patient at some predetermined price if you belong to a private network.
44 posted on 11/08/2012 1:08:05 PM PST by utahagen
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To: YankeeinOkieville

I think you have HSAs confused with Flexible Spending Accounts....HSAs are only available with High Deductible Health Plans....I set mine up with Fidelity, they issue you a debit card that you can use to pay medical expenses for any of your dependents, even if they are not covered under your health plan.


45 posted on 11/08/2012 1:19:01 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: utahagen

If your scenario occurs then at least some of us will have an option.


46 posted on 11/08/2012 1:23:44 PM PST by diamond6 (Pray........pray very hard!!)
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To: FerociousRabbit

Better check that tax on healthcare provided by employer - supposedly the law will tax so-called “Cadillac” plans - those provided by employers that cost over $27K per year.

WE don’t need to go off ranting about taxes on healthcare benefits before we get this straight. WE damage our credibility when we waste energy, anger, and resources on such things. (and I know that snopes is Leftist):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/HR3590.asp#f7XlF1w8Q4a2wR4T.99


47 posted on 11/08/2012 2:09:44 PM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: diamond6

Instead of a 80/20 split like most insurances have, you pay a high deduct (say $1500-$3500) out of your pocket before insurance pays a dime. Much cheaper premiums and you still retain insurance benefits like cost caps and prescription cost helps. Once you meet the deduct, they pay 100%. This is good if you don’t normally go to the doctor a lot but it saves your butt in case of a catastrophic illness.


48 posted on 11/08/2012 4:36:42 PM PST by BipolarBob (I'm joining a Rastafarian cult group and moving to Jamaica.)
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To: chrisser

before I went to town to work we got our health insurance through this company.

http://www.communicatingforamerica.org/

at that time the health insurance was underwritten by ...Life Investors? i think. It was a decent policy and we had no problems with claims. And don’t worry about it saying agriculture, it also includes small businesses.


49 posted on 11/09/2012 7:40:35 AM PST by tickles
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To: BipolarBob

Thank you for your explanation!


50 posted on 11/09/2012 7:56:33 AM PST by diamond6 (Pray........pray very hard!!)
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