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A RINO [Mitt] running as a yes man conservative (and losing) isn't a rejection of conservatism
11/8/2012 | Laissez-Faire Capitalism

Posted on 11/08/2012 7:22:08 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

Again, a rejection of a RINO who has a Youtube video of him bashing a coal-fired power plant, all the way to articles of him flip-flopping on practically any subject you can think of running as a conservative (and then losing in the general election), isn't tantamount to conservatism being over.

Let's face it - Romney had a long track record of being a RINO. There are plenty of past threads here detailing his RINO past as governor, as well as his flip-flops before, during and after the primaries.

Yet the GOP-e thought that putting up someone whom they said could be wound up and would robotically rubber-stamp conservative legislation for 4 straight years (I mean, all he needed were some working digits) meant that conservatives as well as center-right voters would come out and vote for him in greater numbers than they did for McCain --- which didn't happen.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: 2012; congress; democrats; elections; obama; romney; romneytruthfile; teaparty; whiners
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1 posted on 11/08/2012 7:22:15 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

What say you?

And what about the Dick Morrises, the Roves, Barones, Rollins, George Will’s the RINOS/CINOS, etc, etc? Should they ride off into the sunset?

Are they now obsolete? Is it time for more grassroots conservatism as espoused here on FR?

Is it time for 100% bottom-up and 0% top-down?


2 posted on 11/08/2012 7:25:17 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

And what about the O’Reilly’s and the Krauthammer’s as well?

Are they now obsolete?

Is it time for a shake-up at FOX News and maybe talk radio as well?


3 posted on 11/08/2012 7:26:47 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

People like you are part of the problem. Never offering any reasonable solutions in the beginning, only complaining when you don’t get your way or when things go bad.


4 posted on 11/08/2012 7:28:40 AM PST by Perdogg
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Wow, OK.

Romney was not a bad candidate. Certainly the most inspiring one we have had since Reagan. He was the right man for these times, but the public didn’t put 2 and 2 together. That is not his fault, that is the result of a society that has failed ourselves.


5 posted on 11/08/2012 7:29:01 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I saw nothing wrong with Mitt’s candidacy.

I thought he was much better than the rape clowns who got their asses kicked.


6 posted on 11/08/2012 7:30:28 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Shut up.. The are more of them than us.. We are going to have to hit rock bottom before we come back up. Mitt Romney was the perfect candidate for these times. We need to be honest with ourselves.


7 posted on 11/08/2012 7:31:17 AM PST by Hildy (hen the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Thank you! This was NOT a repudiation of conservatism, because conservatism wasn't even in the race.

"That is not part of our campaign."
- Mitt Romney's response to being asked what he thought about the outpouring of support for Chick-fil-A's defense of true marriage.

8 posted on 11/08/2012 7:32:24 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Truth about Romney is he was the third or forth pick among conservatives. Allowing non republicans to vote in our primaries guarantees this type of candidate. we need to concentrate on winning governorships and house and senate races. We also need to tell our candidates not to fall into the trap that the media is going to set for them. When rape and abortion comes up they need a canned answer that precludes the type of statement that the media is fishing for.
9 posted on 11/08/2012 7:32:32 AM PST by ontap
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Thank you! This was NOT a repudiation of conservatism, because conservatism wasn't even in the race.

"That is not part of our campaign."
- Mitt Romney's response to being asked what he thought about the outpouring of support for Chick-fil-A's defense of true marriage.

10 posted on 11/08/2012 7:32:43 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Perdogg

No, people like you who attack those who take issue with RINOs are the problem.

If you like RINOS, then you don’t belong here at FR.

I offered reasonable solutions at the beginning right when the primaries were starting, and the solution was don’t let Romney get the nomination because he would lose.

It seems that all we got from you was defend, defend, defend RINO Romney.


11 posted on 11/08/2012 7:33:16 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Perdogg

And you coming on my threads and engaging in Ad Homs does nothing to help.


12 posted on 11/08/2012 7:35:11 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Hildy
LOL!! You're still deluded, even after having been slapped in the face with a 2x4.

Mitt Romney was the WORST possible candidate. Why pick a posing liberal when you can have the real thing?

13 posted on 11/08/2012 7:35:24 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: VanDeKoik; All

Romney was a bad candidate.

He was yet another Ford, Dole, George “read my lips” Bush, McLame candidate.

From GHWB/Sununu we got a horrible SCOTUS Justice. And Romney picked Sununu as a co-chair to his campaign?

Nuff said.


14 posted on 11/08/2012 7:37:49 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: fwdude

Are you saying that Paul Ryan isn’t conservative?

Are you saying that Todd Aiken isn’t conservative?

Are you saying that Richard Murdoch isn’t conservative?

Are you saying that Allen West isn’t conservative?

Are you saying that Mia Love isn’t conservative?

You had best wake up.

America is not conservative. Not anymore.


15 posted on 11/08/2012 7:38:25 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: chris37

False Choice coming from you.

If they hadn’t said what they did, they would have won.

And someone in-between them and Romney politically/ideologically would have been better than Romney.


16 posted on 11/08/2012 7:39:37 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

In order for anything to occur, a massive “Eye Opening” must occur first..

There was a small group of us here on FR that saw what was happening, and were beaten into submission by the republicans on this site..

I did not say conservatives, but republicans, and there is a difference..

not all republicans are conservatives..

it is the same difference between a capital L libertarian and a small l libertarian..

I mention this because conservatives and small l libertarians are so close in their beliefs that they are natural allies..

Anyway, the eye opening has to occur, and the only way to open eyes is to take a look at the republican party platform, and then use that platform as a gauge against what they do when elected.

once elected, the pubs basically chuck the party platform and turn into libs..

the republican party is liberal, period.

this is based not upon what they say, but what they do..

This is the eye opener that people need to see before any changes can be made..

And, I am sorry to say, it ain’t gonna happen


17 posted on 11/08/2012 7:40:08 AM PST by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: fwdude

Spot on.

Spineless Romney... Wet noodle Romney...

RINO Romney......


18 posted on 11/08/2012 7:41:59 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: VanDeKoik
but the public didn’t put 2 and 2 together.

I agree. I'm not going to heap criticism on Mitt Romney because other people chose not to vote for him.

That's not his fault. He fought hard and right up the last minute. And I give credit where credit is due.
19 posted on 11/08/2012 7:42:34 AM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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To: Hildy

Don’t tell people on here to shut up. I never said that to you, so I expect the same in return.

And, BTW, post #13 is spot-on about you. LOL.


20 posted on 11/08/2012 7:43:36 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Hildy

Perfect? That’s crazy. Romney performed well beyond my expectations, but he is far from the perfect candidate for these times. The proof is in the results. He under performed with the base and the unattached voters he supposedly was going to get.

Frankly, I think their entire strategy was flawed. On that, his campaign chief probably deserve a big part of the blame. Mitt on stage was pretty good. The game plan failed. His prevent defense the last few weeks made me think we were winning, but it was simply not true. At best he was even and needed to be aggressive in his ads. They also flopped in their GOTV...in a big way. They assumed the base would show up in mass. Frankly, I did too, but surprisingly turnout was poor.


21 posted on 11/08/2012 7:44:41 AM PST by ilgipper (Obama supporters are comprised of the uninformed & the ill-informed)
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To: fwdude

You are living in a dream world.. One that does not exist. If Tuesday did not tell you that, then I do not know what to say to you. Good bye.


22 posted on 11/08/2012 7:45:20 AM PST by Hildy (hen the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I disagree with your characterization of Mitt, but even if it was true that would still make him a far better choice than Obama.

Trumpet the ‘conservatism didn’t lose’ line all you want, but the ugly truth is something far more basic DID lose. Common sense lost, the ability to comprehend the most basic economic principles lost, the ability to learn from experience lost, being able to perceive reality lost. Do you really think conservatism has a chance when even the current mess doesn’t drive people to try something, anything else and they hold out their hand to government and say gimmie!


23 posted on 11/08/2012 7:48:01 AM PST by Grig
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

What they said is what they believe, and that belief is a conservative belief.

You are engaging in false choices, you are deceiving yourself and others.

All of them are conservative and all of them were defeated.


24 posted on 11/08/2012 7:51:50 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: chris37
Are you saying that Paul Ryan isn’t conservative?

The running mate is a small asset/liability in a presidential contest. Voters are looking at the Presidential candidate primarily. After all, the stupidity of Biden hasn't hurt Obama, and the brilliance of Palin didn't help McCain.

But even Paul Ryan isn't that far right of center. He actually voted FOR ENDA in one vote, for crying out loud! That is anything but staunchly conservative.

Please note that Ryan WON re-election in his district.

Are you saying that Todd Aiken isn’t conservative?

The liberals and their behemoth sold-out media did the dirty on Todd Aiken. He is conservative, but not smart. You need both.

Are you saying that Richard Murdoch isn’t conservative?

See above. But these were also local races, which are a patchwork of very conservative and very liberal areas. Not surprised that St. Louis had an inordinate influence on Aiken's campaign.

Are you saying that Allen West isn’t conservative?

That race's outcome is still inconclusive, isn't it?

Are you saying that Mia Love isn’t conservative?

Again, a local race, and trying to overcome the barrier of the first black woman elected in that state is another factor.

You had best wake up.

I'm fully awake now. The question is, will other conservatives wake up? America is not conservative. Not anymore.

25 posted on 11/08/2012 7:51:50 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

You are lying to yourself.

You are not awake.

The game is over. Prepare.


26 posted on 11/08/2012 7:54:11 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: VanDeKoik
Romney was not a bad candidate. Certainly the most inspiring one we have had since Reagan.

I hope you're joking.

Romney was about as inspiring as burnt toast dipped in a soft boiled egg. Unsalted.

27 posted on 11/08/2012 7:57:08 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Yep. And dozens of FReepers prove the point as they sat out the election on ‘principle,’ giving us—Obama for another 4 years.

I’m supposed to be preparing to retire...instead me and my family will just try to scape by and not become homeless. Thanks Principled conservatives!


28 posted on 11/08/2012 7:58:45 AM PST by subterfuge (BUILD MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS NOW!!!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Psssttt...I've got news for all you “f**k that RINO Romney” folks.Reagan,sadly,wouldn't stand a chance today.Neither would Palin.Why? Because the Rats are winning the demographics war that they began in the mid 60’s with “The War On Poverty” and “Immigration Reform”.For years the Rats,sometimes with Republicans not even lifting a finger to stop them,have worked slowly and methodically to make us a nation of “victims”...a nation of parasites.And they are,at the very least,damn close to having succeeded if not *actually* successful.we are far,*far* closer to Greece than many people realize....and that's *just* the way the Rats want it.
29 posted on 11/08/2012 7:59:18 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Ambassador Stevens Is Dead And The Chevy Volt Is Alive)
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To: chris37
Yes, the game might be over, but it's not because Americans have rejected conservatism, as you propose.

If it is over, it is because the major party that was once the vehicle for conservatism is no longer.

30 posted on 11/08/2012 8:00:39 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

Myabe to you, but not to many others.

I’d vote for him again, and proudly so. There is nothing wrong with him and a great deal right with him.

I tell you whom I would not vote for, you or anyone like you.


31 posted on 11/08/2012 8:00:55 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Conservatives know that the lesser of two evils is evil. Liberals roll like pigs in evil as if it were mud.


32 posted on 11/08/2012 8:02:48 AM PST by bmwcyle (Women reelected Obama)
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To: VanDeKoik

You’ve got to be kidding!

He was so uber-cautious that he didn’t make many verbal gaffes, but he was a big-government technocrat whose idea of repealing Obamacare was to replace it with 50 Romneycares—small difference, all leading to the same nationalized result over time—and who was tripping all over himself to avoid Benghazi and instead praise Obama’s foreign policy through his entire third debate.

He praised the VAT as a possible route for the country, and really was ultimately conservative about nothing except for his right to have made gobs of money via Bain Capital.


33 posted on 11/08/2012 8:03:02 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: fwdude

You’re wrong. There was conservatism all over the GOP campaign this election cycle, I pointed out numerous examples to you and you foolishly shot them all down in order to maintain your fantasy.


34 posted on 11/08/2012 8:03:38 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Perdogg

And Romney doesn’t explain the utter destruction of Senate candidates. Let’s not go off the deep end here. 1-2% in 3 states and this is a totally different discussion. Let’s keep it reasonable in our approach.

1. Outreach to Hispanics while retaining our core principles.

2. Be more agressive to counter the personal attacks that Republicans suffer at the hands of the Rats.

3. Look for ways to capitalize on a changing electorate, not fear it.


35 posted on 11/08/2012 8:05:42 AM PST by paul544
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To: subterfuge
...dozens of FReepers prove the point as they sat out the election on ‘principle,’ giving us—Obama for another 4 years.

Jettisoning principle for power is the antithesis of conservatism. Real conservatives understand this.

Bravo to all you FReepers who rejected RINO undercover liberal Romney. We repudiated a RINO with the most disgusting alternative. What does that say about RINOism other than that it's WORSE than liberalism?!

36 posted on 11/08/2012 8:08:28 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: chris37

Romney’s back-stabbing of the TEA Party and moral conservatives at the convention said it all.

There is nothing else to say.


37 posted on 11/08/2012 8:11:03 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

What says it all is that two moral conservatives in Aiken and Murdoch got their dicks stomped into the dirt.

I really don’t know what else to tell you. They were honest about their beliefs, and their beliefs were rejected outright, and they always will be.

In fact some are suggesting that those beliefs motivated women to support Obama as they did.

It really doesn’t get anymore “moral conservative” than right to life beliefs, and attempting to tell women that they must have the babies of their rapist because its God’s will or plan or its not the babies fault or any such variation of that is a non starter, it is a game loser and thus the game was lost.


38 posted on 11/08/2012 8:18:51 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: chris37
Chris, you and I agree on far more than you realize (what's with the "heartless", by the way?).

My point is that the mainstream media has accrued ungodly power over the past 4 years; they no longer have ANY loyalty to the truth, but are simply the mouthpiece for radical liberals. What's tragic is that there are many supposedly conservative viewers/listeners who still naively believe that the news "reports the truth" objectively. My staunchly conservative elderly mother is one of these, and I'm constantly having to correct the thinking that she's been infected with from the news - so much so that she's officially labelled me a skeptic and cynic.

Todd Aiken and Richard Murdoch were "remade" into the false image that the media wanted - completely divorced from the truth. And enough conservatives and independents bought it.

39 posted on 11/08/2012 8:30:09 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Grig
Common sense lost, the ability to comprehend the most basic economic principles lost, the ability to learn from experience lost, being able to perceive reality lost.

No. The truth lost. Obama did not campaign as the socialist he is. And Romney did not campaign as the liberal he is. Both lied. And we all know exactly what both would have done when elected.

40 posted on 11/08/2012 8:30:11 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: chris37
All of them are conservative and all of them were defeated.

So what. Liberals also lost some races. And Conservatives also won some races. We also gained in the US House and some state races. Your point is meaningless.

41 posted on 11/08/2012 8:33:39 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All
If you think Romney lost because he wasn't conservative enough you haven't any clue what's happened to the electorate.

Get out of your bubble, leave your echo chamber.

It's very difficult to unseat a sitting president. Even as unpopular as W was in 2004, he was reelected. Obama was well liked and he's the first black president of the United States. That's not Romney's fault.

Voters still blamed BUSH for the state of the economy more than Obama. That's not Romney's fault. Obama ran a campaign of fear, begged for more time to fix things and won. It's that simple.

Grassroots conservatives failed to produce a nominee with FOUR YEARS to coalesce behind one against Romney for this election. Suck it up.

Grassroots conservatives lost very winnable US Senate seats over the past two cycles that would've flipped the Senate to the GOP: Akin? Mourdock? O'Donnell? Angle?

Akin and Mourdock losing 300K-500K votes from Romney's margins of victory in those states is on THEM and "grassroots conservatives" who foisted them on the electorates in those states. That's not Romney's fault.

Why are you blaming pollsters and analysts? They weren't the ones who stayed home because Romney was a Mormon... don't tell me that wasn't a factor; read the posts from Freepers who didn't vote for him because of that.

I don't see much criticism leveled at the pick of Paul Ryan here. There's NO evidence he helped the ticket and plenty of reason to think he harmed it. While I like his willingness to stick his neck out with proposals as budget chair, I always thought it was a dangerous choice. I hoped the chemistry between Romney and Ryan might come through. On his own, Ryan came off as scripted, insincere, wonkish, distant and even unlikable. He was NOT ready for big stage. In the end, clearly he was a liability, he was hidden by the campaign in safe states.

42 posted on 11/08/2012 8:40:44 AM PST by newzjunkey (Obama thanks Pontius Pilate voter Freepers for making him president til 2017!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Romney wasn’t a bad candidate he ran a bad “Johnny One Note” campaign and had bad campaign advisors . He needed to go after Obama with a grape shot cannon and had all kinds of shot to stuff in it instead of using a poison dart blow gun.

In addition Rove who I understand was handling the Senate campaign played games and his material
never warned voters that if Obama gets re-elected as well as senate the chances of repealing Obama care ...AND ALL THE TAX INCREASES THAT GO WITH IT WILL NEVER GET REPEALED


43 posted on 11/08/2012 8:43:24 AM PST by mosesdapoet ("Vengence is mine".....Thus sayeth the Lord.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

We lose on a national level because our electorate is divided into group identities. We had two intelligent, capable candidates, and we had good issues. We lost anyway. Unless we appeal to ethnic minorities, we can’t win. And it does no good to make derogatory remarks about ethnic minorities.


44 posted on 11/08/2012 8:47:59 AM PST by popdonnelly
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All
They are not obsolete. Krauthammer was very good in his post election analysis. O'Reilly said people like free stuff and want free stuff.

Hannity is a hack and has been for years now.

Rush helped the Democrats win with his "slut" war with Sandra Fluke. It ignited the "War on Women" push. This isn't the first time in recent Rush has created an unnecessary image problem for Republicans. He's supposed to be a professional. He's not new to the scene; he should know better.

I like Levin and although I think he's nuts, I'm enjoying Beck as a change of pace.

45 posted on 11/08/2012 8:48:41 AM PST by newzjunkey (Obama thanks Pontius Pilate voter Freepers for making him president til 2017!)
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To: fwdude

Yes. Bravo to all you high-and-might principled FReepers. Enjoy supporting me and my family the next 4 to 10 years, ‘cause we’re going on the dole since we have no choice. I get your point loud and clear.


46 posted on 11/08/2012 8:56:13 AM PST by subterfuge (BUILD MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS NOW!!!)
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To: newzjunkey
Conservatives have retained control of the US House. So this was not a repudiation of conservatism. You can not point to handful of races and claim they are more important as an indicator of the electorate then the more numerous house wins.

Actually Obama lost 10 million voters. And I bet many people that voted for him, held their nose, as did many people who voted for Romney.

47 posted on 11/08/2012 9:01:03 AM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: subterfuge

Consider this chemotherapy, which makes you weak, makes you wretch and lose you hair. But necessary for eventual healing.


48 posted on 11/08/2012 9:03:00 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: justa-hairyape

Oh. Ok.

Enjoy Harry Reid’s senate and Barack Obama’s second term then, delusional fool.


49 posted on 11/08/2012 9:09:54 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: fwdude

Not a bad point dude and I hope you’re right in the end.

The fact that my 23 yo daughter has cancer makes thinking about it kinda hard though.


50 posted on 11/08/2012 9:14:23 AM PST by subterfuge (BUILD MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS NOW!!!)
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