Posted on 11/06/2012 10:33:47 PM PST by LifeComesFirst
It's too late for "taking this country back," it's too far gone. There is too large a segment of the population that wants to live under a large welfare state with minimal civil liberties and free abortions for all. We had the Tea Party and it hasn't done a lick of good. That's because it was trying to work within our existing, utterly broken system.
Think about these points:
--the country has been on a very un-Constitutional path since at least the New Deal --rule of law continues to erode as Obama uses executive orders and openly selectively enforces the law, and will nullify private contracts at will in order to benefit his special interests (Chrysler) --we cannot fly around our own country without being groped by petty civil "servants" --for the first time, the federal government has the power to place any mandate on us that it wants to, as Justice John Roberts has ruled that the power to tax is all-encompassing, so conceivably they could "tax" whatever behavior they want to stamp out and this will pass muster --our court system will only get worse as Obama will put farther left justices in courts --big business is aligned with government to an extent never seen, as corporations try to win subsidies or favorable regulations rather than trying to please customers --our very energy sources are being controlled by the government, limiting drilling, pipelines, etc. --huge segments of the population think of welfare and illegitimacy as ways of life, there are whole neighborhoods where self-reliance and education is secondary to handouts --whole segments of the economy are artificially propped up by the government, creating the illusion that bad economics times will follow if the government cuts its budget --entitlement spending is on track to bankrupt the whole western world --we have a country where half the population looks at record welfare, record food stamps, endless unemployment and stagnation, and says "more please" --even with a supermajority in both houses and control of the White House, no political party has the power to enact large scale changes. Even ObamaCare, which was supposed to be universal healthcare, was instead watered down into some Frankenstein's monster of special-interest-pleasing mandates and regulations. --Even if Romney had won, it would be politically impossible for him to do what would be necessary: major spending cuts and a large contraction of the welfare state, and slash-and-burn shrinking of the federal government. At best, we would have marginally lower taxes but still have trillions in debt and spending.
There are two reasons why all of these problems are intractable in this country: 1) half the country has a rotten culture which values government as savior 2) these flawed policies are baked in to the system. No amount of Tea Party protests and electing the right people will change anything. We have tried that, tried our darnedest, and it didn't work.
Complaining about "oh we just need more conservative candidates" isn't the answer either. Half the country wouldn't vote for a "true conservative" and if a "true conservative" became president, he or she would be very limited in what they could do. Reagan couldn't even cut the National Endowment for the Arts, for crying out loud.
Half the country wants a European welfare state, half the country wants limited government and economic freedom. I say both sides deserve the government they want to live under.
I think it is a basic human right to live under a government that governs with the consent of the governed. I think this basic human right transcends whatever the law may say (Scalia says there is no Constitutional right to secede). The Civil War experience we had in this country has forever colored our concept of secession. We automatically think of it as a violent, tragic enterprise. But this is a narrow viewpoint. There was a Civil War because one side wanted to secede and the other side wanted to remain intact.
But in a situation where both (or more) sides are willing to secede, you can have a peaceful split. Czechoslovakia becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia, for example.
The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries, but there is no a priori reason to assume that this is always inevitable or always desirable.
2014 won't save us. 2016 won't save us. Getting a new person in the White House isn't the answer, that only buys time, it doesn't fix the problem.
It's time for people, not just right-wingers but it should start with them, to start floating the idea of a peaceful break-up of the United States of America. Getting bogged down into how it will work or whatever isn't the first step, the first step is to overcome the taboo of talking about it. Right now, even among many right-wingers, it is tinfoil hat talk to mention the s-word. That needs to change. This would be a much happier continent in a post-secession America.
I’m game for secession. If it doesn’t happen now, it won’t happen later.
This is Urban vs rural America.
Look at the Red / Blue maps of the country by county - this is a geographical issue.
Problems and solutions in side cities are different than they are in rural areas but centralized government only provides one size fits all solutions.
Each group is trying to impose its will on the other
The cities provide cultural color and ah ah ah hm not sure what else, oh yeah big banks!
and Rural America provides Water, Power and Food
Maybe each faction could just keep what they have and everything will work out?
Hell. Even 41 percent of Texas voted Obama. Wow!
We are toast.
41% would be your basic clueless Latinos here. Mix in a few college kids and there ya go. Can’t worry about that. Secession is in the future. The sooner the better. Do you know how hard it is going to be as a boy scout leader to say the pledge when I find the “one nation.... indivisible” part revolting now? I felt the same way four years ago. That is a sad commentary and I apologize to our vets out there. But what this country is turning into is not what you fought for.
I am in as well. In fact, I am already beginning to make plans for a successful move to Alaska before joining the secession movement. Texas is very much on the cards, and I think even governor Perry has flirted with the idea. If the midsection of this country can consolidate, it can secede as well. We will need a more decisive majority in these states however.
ALL CONSERVATIVES IN BLUE STATES -— MOVE!!!
I think Free Republic should now be an outpost of the freedom FOR a new republic.
We are completely justified here. We are no longer just two groups on opposite sides of the political spectrum who can come together to work a compromise. Democrats and Republicans are now two PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENT groups of people, with a PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENT view of life.
Someone mentioned Czechoslovakia. The same thing. A house divided does not stand. We must separate ourselves from what is quickly becoming the tyranny of the majority. The people of Oklahoma should not be dictated to by the people of Massachusetts (which I now consider officially a foreign country).
FREEDOM!
“But we must use caution in our posts.”
To the devil with caution!
We seek only to live peacefully, left to our own and among our own kind — our own kind being those who cherish liberty and individual self-reliance. That is not a crime. It is an idea. It is an idea and it cannot be extinguished so long as free men can choose to live free.
I choose to live free.
Secession?
I love the idea. Go see how many Army divisions we can take
with us and get back to us on that.
Oh!, ...and don’t forget, the Federal Government PAYS all
those guys so they might be kinda interested in how you are
going to do that.
Wait until the coming financial meltdown, when the Federal
Government is sooo broke it can’t even pay a simple soldiers
salary.
THEN they will listen to you real hard.
Don’t get me started.
[and I more of a Mosby type, myself]
Bookmark
Take steps to end the free ride and they will expel themselves.
The simple, unavoidable fact is that there is no future as one free and prosperous nation.
This election is transformational. This is now a european-style welfare state that will not be able to prop up the rest of the world economically or militarily. The results will be catastrophic.
Tonight is a bitter pill to swallow.
Tonight Americans chose to live off the Government, they chose to live under Government over regulation and to accept the scraps they are tossed.
The time will come to fight. Soon we wioll belike Greece, Broke and rioting when Government largesse runs out.When the dollar is worth nothing and pensions and welfare cease because there is no more borrowing to save us.
Be prepared to fight then, until then, as the old saying goes, Keep your powder dry.
No offense. My wife bought me a new Seabee hat that I was going to wear to a Veteran’s Day Parade. Now, I doubt if I’ll even go. I refuse to salute the American Flag with Sheila Jackson Lee on the same float. Right now I don’t much feel like saluting it at all. And I sure as hell wouldn’t fight for what she has become.
Bookmark.
Where was our own kind tonight?
Are there any of them left?
We no longer live in a country where the majority are like you and I wanting to live free, be self reliant, industrious,work hard and enjoy the fruits of our labor.
We now live in a country that has sold their freedom for Unemployment checks, welfare, free health care that isn’t free.We now live in a country that is over regulated,living on borrowed money Godless, and their liberty doesn’t mean SH*t to them as long as the welfare check comes on the first of the month.
Blacks voted for 25% unemployment today and smiled while they did it.
There need be no actual fighting. The riots are nothing, they are the idiot freeloaders venting their frustrations by breaking glass.
Secession is about letting two groups that hate each other govern themselves as they see fit. It used to be possible under one national government via federalism.
The freeloader problem will continue to grow and it will envelope every state. If Texas could end welfare tomorrow, the Obama voters would beat a hasty exit. Crime would drop dramatically and the economy would take off. Those willing to work would flock to the state.
That this empire will break up is a foregone conclusion at this point. It is only a matter of whether good leadership will make it work sooner and smoother or if it will be a consequence of a general collapse.
Before I hit the sack, there are efforts by groups both left and right promoting secession. Even Rush made a good point where you have two basic thought processes in this country that are totally incompatible with each other.
Maybe so. but those of us who are producers will just up and quit..They layoffs will be coming on strong now..wait and see...doctors are going to quit.,ours today said the 0bamacare has already placed an additional admin burden on them and the cost of overhead is such that they can’t afford this. Last visit we got a notice in the mail with the codes and description of what we were seen for and it was required by the feds..our doc said he is stuck with this through Dec..and he is going to quit forwarding that crap on..patients don’t want that but what the hell we don’t count...what will happen to the doctor is that he is going to have his reimbursements cut ( this is for medicare and I suppose any other govt medicaid, medical etc program) and he said he loves what he does but he would rather be out riding his bike or surfing and won’t pay the govt in order to see patients. So the handwriting is on the wall,doctors are going to start qitting practice or will start the concierge form of practice where we pay a membership fee, get a super bill to sendn to a secondary or write it off but I suppose 0bama will see to it that we can’t write it off either..I go to a concierge doctor and love it...my secondary should take care of part of it..I need o send in the superbills to see how much..
Calling the CPA tomorrow to see what to do with the considerable amount have in my portfolio..how to hide it.
We have been on the path to two countries since the 1960s. Today accelerated the process.
Not all of us in CA are lecchers and are not liberals..we are outnumbered, Many of us would leave but are stuck in this hell hole. It’s only redeeming value is along the coast where the weather is moderate with little to no smog. Other than that the whole damn state sucks.
“The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries”.
Not lately. Yugoslavia is like 4 or 5 countries now. The USSR is now several countries. African countries are splintering. Hell, even Scotland is about to vote on independence from the UK, which is debating leaving any further association with the EU.
The historical trend in the last few dacades is big countries breaking down into smaller elements. Things aren’t bad enough yet for it to fly here. But they could be soon, and the right national disaster or presidential treason could spark such a move.
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