Skip to comments.Time to talk about SECESSION--vanity
Posted on 11/06/2012 10:33:47 PM PST by LifeComesFirst
It's too late for "taking this country back," it's too far gone. There is too large a segment of the population that wants to live under a large welfare state with minimal civil liberties and free abortions for all. We had the Tea Party and it hasn't done a lick of good. That's because it was trying to work within our existing, utterly broken system.
Think about these points:
--the country has been on a very un-Constitutional path since at least the New Deal --rule of law continues to erode as Obama uses executive orders and openly selectively enforces the law, and will nullify private contracts at will in order to benefit his special interests (Chrysler) --we cannot fly around our own country without being groped by petty civil "servants" --for the first time, the federal government has the power to place any mandate on us that it wants to, as Justice John Roberts has ruled that the power to tax is all-encompassing, so conceivably they could "tax" whatever behavior they want to stamp out and this will pass muster --our court system will only get worse as Obama will put farther left justices in courts --big business is aligned with government to an extent never seen, as corporations try to win subsidies or favorable regulations rather than trying to please customers --our very energy sources are being controlled by the government, limiting drilling, pipelines, etc. --huge segments of the population think of welfare and illegitimacy as ways of life, there are whole neighborhoods where self-reliance and education is secondary to handouts --whole segments of the economy are artificially propped up by the government, creating the illusion that bad economics times will follow if the government cuts its budget --entitlement spending is on track to bankrupt the whole western world --we have a country where half the population looks at record welfare, record food stamps, endless unemployment and stagnation, and says "more please" --even with a supermajority in both houses and control of the White House, no political party has the power to enact large scale changes. Even ObamaCare, which was supposed to be universal healthcare, was instead watered down into some Frankenstein's monster of special-interest-pleasing mandates and regulations. --Even if Romney had won, it would be politically impossible for him to do what would be necessary: major spending cuts and a large contraction of the welfare state, and slash-and-burn shrinking of the federal government. At best, we would have marginally lower taxes but still have trillions in debt and spending.
There are two reasons why all of these problems are intractable in this country: 1) half the country has a rotten culture which values government as savior 2) these flawed policies are baked in to the system. No amount of Tea Party protests and electing the right people will change anything. We have tried that, tried our darnedest, and it didn't work.
Complaining about "oh we just need more conservative candidates" isn't the answer either. Half the country wouldn't vote for a "true conservative" and if a "true conservative" became president, he or she would be very limited in what they could do. Reagan couldn't even cut the National Endowment for the Arts, for crying out loud.
Half the country wants a European welfare state, half the country wants limited government and economic freedom. I say both sides deserve the government they want to live under.
I think it is a basic human right to live under a government that governs with the consent of the governed. I think this basic human right transcends whatever the law may say (Scalia says there is no Constitutional right to secede). The Civil War experience we had in this country has forever colored our concept of secession. We automatically think of it as a violent, tragic enterprise. But this is a narrow viewpoint. There was a Civil War because one side wanted to secede and the other side wanted to remain intact.
But in a situation where both (or more) sides are willing to secede, you can have a peaceful split. Czechoslovakia becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia, for example.
The historical trend has been for small countries to merge into big countries, but there is no a priori reason to assume that this is always inevitable or always desirable.
2014 won't save us. 2016 won't save us. Getting a new person in the White House isn't the answer, that only buys time, it doesn't fix the problem.
It's time for people, not just right-wingers but it should start with them, to start floating the idea of a peaceful break-up of the United States of America. Getting bogged down into how it will work or whatever isn't the first step, the first step is to overcome the taboo of talking about it. Right now, even among many right-wingers, it is tinfoil hat talk to mention the s-word. That needs to change. This would be a much happier continent in a post-secession America.
secession is never going to happen
It will just give the dictator a cause to trumpet as he goes to war
We in Louisiana agree with that
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again and damn the consequences:
We’re all Dixie now.
Secession, rebellion, treason... call it whatever you want. I’m in!!!!!!!!
[ secession is never going to happen
It will just give the dictator a cause to trumpet as he goes to war ]
The only thing to do is sell it to the libs as a way to get rid of the hicks and clingers...
It is all about Marketing...
Sell it like the Czech republic split up
A house divided against itself cannot stand. Our divisions cannot be reconciled.
Im in. The idea needs to be floated out there. Conservatives need to move to a certain part of the country and start the process. Once we have occupied a certain amount of states we should get the ball rolling.
Long live Dixie!
Duty is ours; consequences are God’s.
Thomas Stonewall Jackson
Unless you can expel the “takers” there is no point.
We are all dissappointed.
Dissappointed in the election results and dissappointed in our fellow Americans.
But we must use caution in our posts.
We are now living in a fascist state, A Socialist State,a new America where homosexuality, and the death panels rule.
We are now living in a Country that is bound to go under.
The debt will take us down, and the dogs that have laid in wait for the downfall of America will be attacking , and we have a coward at the head of our country.
It is what most Americans wanted and it is what they will get.
It is almost too unreal for me to believe.
Totally open to the idea. Very possibly the only option left at this point, now that the parasitic class has crossed the 50% tipping-point. The country’s been decaying for a while, but pace is about to grow exponentially.
Liberals are smart in tactics. They go to the cities, where most of the money is made and leech off their success. That’s why cities are so liberal. Then they go to red states with low taxes and wait and wait until they can leech off them.
Secession is not enough. We need to take the whole country back, not just a few red states. Revolution is the right word, not secession. Take it all. Every bit of it. Take it all back. Stop thinking so small.
You will get arguments that it isn’t possible because it is illegal, or that the states have a share in the debt, blah blah blah... the truth is I don’t think it was legal in 1860 either, and quite honestly, the tyranny from the “Union” is worse now than in 1860. And as to the shared debt, the new nation sets up its own currency, establishes what it considers to be a fair rate of exchange, and either pays it off, or immediately claims default (like bankruptcy) and implements laws forbidding collection practices by other nations. There is a movement in Texas, and has been for some time now, that has a lot already planned out. Just need the Governor and the Texas Legislature to declare it. Offer the citizens a choice to stay on or leave with no tax implications. Invite those of like-minded states to join and form a new republic. And write a new constitution based on the original draft and bill of rights. It is not as far-fetched as many will point out here. Barring revolution, it may be the only sane idea left. Quite honestly, why would Obama even fight it? He hates us anyway. Now the leechers in California who sponge off our power grid, well they’d be a mite bit pissed, but we’ll still sell them power... for a steep price. With the Eagle Ford shale project, Texas will have a sustainable amount of natural gas, oil, and wind power as well to remain totally energy independent. If Perry won’t play, we need someone in charge who will.
“Takers” can be expelled automatically by having little or no welfare. Before the breakup, each side can draft its proposed constitution.
But like I said, the first step is to break the taboo of discussing it and to get people to treat it like a serious policy idea. Not in the distant future but starting tomorrow. As it is, all politicians want to talk about uniting the nation and bringing all sides together and so forth, but I would like to see governors, senators, mayors, etc start talking openly about how this country *cannot* be united, get the meme out there that hoping for unity is pointless and that a peaceful breakup is the answer.
If Texas secedes I’ll move there in a heart beat.
I’m talking about it. I’ll wait until after the 2016 election. If we nominate a real conservative. If that candidate loses, time for a peaceful split.
Look at the election map. The old Confederacy (minus that nasty carpet-bagging Commonwealth of Virginia and that New York/New Jersey swamp they call Florida). I say let the South rise again!!!!
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