But Mitt Romney's a Mormon! (Fear not)

The Washington Times Communities ^ | October 20, 2012 | Amanda Read

[SincerelyAmanda]

Our White House has been residence to Unitarians, at least one likely Deist, and multiple Freemasons. Is Romney’s Mormonism really any weirder?

[rawcatslyentist]

At least the Mormon theme isn’t “Death to America”!

[AlexW]

I never understood all the hubbub about Mormons.
The Marxist yap about them as if they were a demonic cult.
Throughout my life, I have never observed any problem with Mormons, but I never knew any in Tennessee.

I just know I would take a Mormon, or just about anything else, over a Communist...ANY DAY.

[ansel12]

Mormonism is truly the worst of the lot.

Not only does Mitt think that he is going to become a God like our own God (he thinks that our God used to be just a man like him), Mormonism dresses up just like Christianity, and uses much of it’s language, and they even carry a bible with the Book of Mormon, all to seduce Christians in the worst way, by convincing them that they are not leaving Christ.

Mormonism maintains that front and leads a victim along slowly, letting the truth dribble out in measured doses so as not to shatter the seduction and drive off the prospect.

[Hardraade]

Go look up anti-mormonism and hate groups.

You’ll understand what FR is pushing.

[Hardraade]

Go look up anti-mormonism and hate groups.

You’ll understand what FR is pushing.

[AllAmericanGirl44]

You really hate him don’t ya?
Guess a muslim in the white house works better for you.

I know, I know, it’s all about your deep convictions.

My children and millions of others Thank You.

I find your tripe laughable :)
Thanks for the late night comedy ~

[dila813]

We got what we got, I would rather have someone else, but anyone but Obama.

Romney has yet to have given me a reason other than he is not Obama, I hope at the next debate Romney will say he is going to expedite energy production including the modification of anything that gets in its way.

Lets see us really get energy independent. So far, he hasn’t put out policy positions that are strong enough to make that happen.

[FredZarguna]

Do you know that in a country as civilized as England, the Roman Catholic daughter of Henry the VIII found the Reformed Christianity of her countrymen so vile that she had several hundred of them burned alive?

What relevance did that have to the election of John F. Kennedy? None.

As long as Romney's religion doesn't interfere with the oath he will take on January 20th 2013 to support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, I don't see what the point of all this is.

I share religious beliefs with practically no one on FRee Republic, and I certainly don't share Romney's. That doesn't mean we can't have common cause to save the United States of America.

That is what this is coming down to, and all these irrelevant games are the work of The Enemy.

[ansel12]

Evidently you are willing to launch into a personal attack, but not willing to point out the fact in post 4 that you think is false.

The knowledge you learned about Mormonism, made you angry and emotional, and hostile towards a fellow freeper.

To quote the Catholics:
“”By following all the rules and ordinances of God here, Mormon men and women have the potential of also becoming gods (by first becoming a good Mormon, paying a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, and follow various laws and ordinances of the church). “As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become” (Joseph Smith’s words). Mormons believe that there are many worlds and many gods. Each god is similar to God the Father, having the same powers and omnipotence, and even being able to create their own worlds. “Heavenly Father” is only the name of the god who rules over this world

[Brad from Tennessee]

Some “Christians” define themselves only through hatred of people who don’t share their beliefs. They will cluster together and turn a decent church into a cult. This type of bigot shares responsibility for shrinking church membership in the U.S.

[SoConPubbie]

Some “Christians” define themselves only through hatred of people who don’t share their beliefs. They will cluster together and turn a decent church into a cult. This type of bigot shares responsibility for shrinking church membership in the U.S.

No, you have it completely 180 degrees backwards.

The shrinking church membership is the direct reflection of leaving the Word of God behind, refusing to obey God, accepting those things that are not of God, as if they are of God, and finally rebelling against God.

The Apostle Paul was very clear about those groups that would teach heresy as if it was Christianity:

Galations 1:8

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. "

You have falsely accused those who have proven over and over and over again through the foundational documents of the Church of Mormon and comparison to the Word of God, the Bible, and the words of the so-called Mormon Church prophets of practicing hate.

In reality, it is you that hate God.

[SoConPubbie]

You have falsely accused those who have proven over and over and over again through the foundational documents of the Church of Mormon and comparison to the Word of God, the Bible, and the words of the so-called Mormon Church prophets of practicing hate.

That should have read:

"You have falsely accused those who have proven over and over and over again through the foundational documents of the Church of Mormon and comparison to the Word of God, the Bible, and the words of the so-called Mormon Church prophets the complete and utter falsehood that the Church of Mormon is a Christian Church of practicing hate."

Furthermore, given the words of their False Prophet, Joseph Smith, and other so-called "prophets" of the Mormon Church, your characterization of the Mormon Church as "decent church into a cult", misses the mark by a mile: their very words prove them to be a cult:

"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)

"Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Documentary History of the Church, Introduction, xl)

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).

"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." (Joseph Smith, DHC 1:6)

"I spoke of the impropriety of turning away from the truth, and going after a people so destitute of righteousness as the Methodists." (Joseph Smith, DHC 2:319)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...brother Heber C. Kimball was beset by a number of Baptist priests who had been attending a conference. He read them all down out of the New Testament....With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world." (Brigham Young, JD 8:199).

"The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon...." (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity," no.6, p.84).

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)

"And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act." (Orson Pratt, OP-WA, "The Kingdom of God," no.2, p.6)

"...all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who recieves baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt people." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg. 255)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." (Brigham Young, JD 6:176)

"Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christiandom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common orgin. They belong to Babylon." (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p.324)

Finally, note the views of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young regarding the Christian view of Jesus Christ:

"You may hear the divines of the day extol the character of the Saviour, undertake to exhibit his true character before the people, and give an account of his origin...I have frequently thought of mules, which you know are half horse and half ass, when reflecting upon the representations made by those divines. I have heard sectarian priests undertake to tell the character of the Son of God, and they make him half of one species and half of another, and I could not avoid thinking at once of the mule, which is the most hateful creature that ever was made, I believe. You will excuse me, but I have thus thought many a time" (Journal of Discourses 4:217).

These facts, and the wide disagreement of Mormonism with Christianity have been on display on a regular basis for a very long time.

Apparently you have either refused to read those threads, or refused the honest, fair, complete, and objective comparison that has already been proved.

Instead you would rather bring up the left-wing false canard of being a hater.

[SoConPubbie]

Ping!

[tanknetter]

As long as Romney's religion doesn't interfere with the oath he will take on January 20th 2013 to support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, I don't see what the point of all this is.

For eight years I had to put up with Liberal relatives of mine (ok, my wife's ... but still people I couldn't easily just walk away from) pushing the notion that George W. Bush was going to install an Evangelical Christian Theocracy through things like a White House Office of Faith-Based Initiatives. So, iow *yawn*. Annoying, but *yawn*.

Here's the thing about religion and the Presidency - an Administration can only go as far as the six Roman Catholics and three Jews on the Supreme Court (and to a lesser extent the 535 members of the two houses of Congress (Wikipedia shows them as 55% Protestant, 30% Roman Catholic, 8% Jewish and then 2.6% Mormon ... the rest being other religions) allow the President to go. Even given the fact that the Senate Democrat Leader is a Mormon too. Even given the possibility that a President Romney could appoint Mormons to fill vacancies on the Supreme Court (probably two, possibly three still isn't a majority)

Personally, I see the likelihood of BOTH Antonin Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg running out and buying "magic underwear" (I'm being facetious there) and signing up for a Mormon theocracy about as likely as either of them buying a box full of snakes (facetious there too) and up for an Evangelical Protestant one.

So unless someone can provide demonstrable evidence that Romney is going to govern with the intent of converting everyone to Mormonism (although I imagine that if he were to promise to start with Keith Ellison a LOT of people on FR would be VERY enthusiastic about the whole thing) this is a complete non-issue to me.

[Hardraade]

It’s not just a non-issue, it’s embarassing dementia.

[Sherman Logan]

Do you know that in a country as civilized as England, the Roman Catholic daughter of Henry the VIII found the Reformed Christianity of her countrymen so vile that she had several hundred of them burned alive?

To be fair, the treacherous Mormon massacre of over 100 American men, women and children, after accepting their surrender on terms, took place a little more recently.

1857, not 1555.

Arguably on the direct instructions of Brigham Young.

The worst massacre of white Americans by white Americans in our history.

Personally, I don't find this disqualifying for Mitt. But it is perhaps relevant to recognize that in Mormon history the extreme fanaticism and resultant violence found in the history of most "Christian" denominations is a good deal more recent.

[Elsie]

Is Romney’s Mormonism really any weirder?

Can't speak to the weird; but ARROGANT does come to mind...

---

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

The Marxist yap about them as if they were a demonic cult.

[Elsie]

I just know I would take a Mormon, or just about anything else, over a Communist...ANY DAY.

Have you thought about ETERNITY?

[Elsie]

You’ll understand what FR is pushing.

JR is FR.

Ma'am; we LIKE Jim and all, but you see...

[Elsie]

Didn't take long for the HATE! epitaph to be hurled; did it!

Some folks thinks it'll shut down discussion as well as RACE!! used to.

[Elsie]

That is what this is coming down to, and all these irrelevant games are the work of The Enemy.

I'm sure that you mean the Other Enemy; RIGHT!!??

[stellaluna]

Jospeh Smith was either a liar and a con man or he was sociopathic or he was possessed for a time. What he produced is not Christian. That being said, I’ll take what Mitt is cooking over the swill that we’ve had for the last four years. It’s time to be practical.

[Elsie]

To quote the Catholics:

Bah!

Who cares what those folks think!

Quote our glorious GOD; speaking through our Blessed martyred Leader himself!

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The Doctrine and Covenants

 

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

---

 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

---

--MormonDude(I can't WAIT!)

[Elsie]

They will cluster together and turn a decent church into a cult.

While 12,000,000 or so others will try to convince you that their cult is a decent church.

[Hardraade]

So you’re telling me that FR is officially rooting for the muslim to win?

Or is it only you?

[Elsie]

You can take it from me...

It’s not just a non-issue, it’s embarassing dementia.

[Hardraade]

Actually, I’m pretty convinced that you’ll spend eterinity in h*ll. With mohammed.

[Elsie]

But it is perhaps relevant to recognize that in Mormon history the extreme fanaticism and resultant violence found in the history of most "Christian" denominations is a good deal more recent.

And, like most of the other arcane things of MORMONism, were basically covered up.

Thanks to Al Gore, who invented the Internet, facts are being widely distributed about LDS, Inc. and many of the adherants of the things taught by Joseph Smith, etal, are exTREMELY upset about it.

[old and tired]

To quote the Catholics: “”By following all the rules and ordinances of God here, Mormon men and women have the potential of also becoming gods (by first becoming a good Mormon, paying a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, and follow various laws and ordinances of the church). “As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become” (Joseph Smith’s words). Mormons believe that there are many worlds and many gods. Each god is similar to God the Father, having the same powers and omnipotence, and even being able to create their own worlds. “Heavenly Father” is only the name of the god who rules over this world

But so what? I know Mormonism is false - but then I know all other faiths but my own have varying degrees of falsehood in them. I can where the faith of practicing Muslim President might have some effect on my liberty as an American citizen, but I can't see how Romney being a Mormon (or a Druid or a Hindu or a Budddhist) matters one whit to me (or any other freedom loving American). What am I missing?

[Elsie]

I’ll answer later; but right now I have to beat my wife.

[Elsie]

So you’re telling me that FR is officially rooting for the muslim to win?

Do you ALWAYS ignore the things that PROMINENT mormons have said about Christianity?

[Elsie]

And Joseph Smith?

[Holly_P]

Go look up anti-mormonism and hate groups.

You’ll understand what FR is pushing.

You seem to be calling F.R. a "hate group". Am I misunderstanding you?

[Elsie]

Actually, I’m pretty convinced that you’ll spend eterinity in h*ll. With mohammed.

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Hardraade]

I knew it.

Repressed lesbian.

[Elsie]

I can (see?)where the faith of practicing Muslim President might have some effect ...

Oh?

How??

[Elsie]

Am I misunderstanding you?

Not one bit!

ANYthing negative about MORMONism is considered HATE by the Talibanic branch of LDS, Inc.

[Hardraade]

Only Elsie and her gaggle.

But they *are* a well-defined and known hate group.

[Elsie]

Yee haw!

Let's ramp up the flames and see if we can get THIS thread pulled!

It is EMBARASSING to us MORMONs!

I may not understand everything MORMON, but, by golly, I sure BELIEVE it!)

[CAluvdubya]

I've lived in the same schools and communities as Mormons for a good bit of my life. They are decent, family oriented people.

Remember, we are not being asked to join their church.

The Mormon church will play no more a role in the presidency than the Catholic church did with Kennedy,

What foolishness!

[rxtn41]

A B O

[old and tired]

And Joseph Smith?

It's not a matter of questioning whether Joseph Smith was demonically possessed, that's irrelevent. What we have today is a group with some weird cult like beliefs, but so what? This is the United States of America! These guys have a right to believe whatever they want. Their beliefs don't infringe on my rights in any way. They're not proposing Sharia Law. Just because the Mormon religion is false is no reason for believers of other faiths to fear them.

All this anti-Mormon stuff rubs me the wrong way. I suspect it's a bunch of Evangelicals taking a break from Catholic bashing. Serious question - what do all you anti-Mormon folks think of the Pope specifically and Catholics generally?

[Elsie]

But they *are* a well-defined and known hate group.... to all of us Porter Rockwell wannabees.

[old and tired]

By trying to impose Sharia.

[Elsie]

I suspect it's a bunch of Evangelicals taking a break from Catholic bashing.

We're a weird group.

Some might say driven by their beliefs.

---

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

 

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[camle]

um...freemasony is NOT a religion...

[Elsie]

Serious question - what do all you anti-Mormon folks think of the Pope specifically and Catholics generally?

Sorry; but rabbit holes and red herrings have been off my diet for a long time now.

[old and tired]

So that is what you’re doing - taking a break from Catholic bashing? What would you be writing now if Rick Santorum had gotten the nomination?