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Ketamine for Depression: The Most Important Advance in Field in 50 Years?
Time Healthland ^ | 10-05-2012 | Maia Szalavitz

Posted on 10/06/2012 4:37:30 PM PDT by Renfield

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To: what's up
Comparing US and Dutch stats... In 2009, the suicide rate in the US was 12.0/100,000; for the Netherlands 8.5/100,000. Comparing murder rates, it was 4.2/100,000 in the US, 1.1/100,000 in the Netherlands.

Perhaps the Dutch are a more moral and religious people than Americans?

_____________________________________________________________

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

51 posted on 10/06/2012 10:49:35 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

Excuse me——anything that compares the decades of sick Keynesian economics salted with degenerates like Kinsey and Hefner and Freud ethics——has to compare statistics to BEFORE the “sex revolution” which kicked out God and showered our children with nihilism and the Age of Relativism so they couldn’t even think straight when they reached adulthood in the sixties.

You are comparing a Godless age to a Godless age. The stats are meaningless (as Twain would state about any “stats”).

Get Suicide and Murder Rates and percentage of people on “antidepressants” from PRIOR to the sixties——when people like my father carried guns to school and never had hardly any “pills”.

...before the ethics of that Pedophile, Atheist Kinsey and sodomite John Maynard Keynes who raped little boys, and Atheist Freud’s and Hefner’s ideology was literally forced down the throats (deeply) into ALL public school children to erase morality and God with the help of Hollywood and marketing.

My point is when there is a belief in God-—there is hardly any reason for pills for so-called psychological disorders which are nothing but lack of character and lack of control over base instincts (immaturity)-—so they get all sorts of emotional trauma because of their very immature actions.

As Socrates profoundly stated: Knowledge is Virtue; Ignorance is Vice.

He meant that since ALL people want to be Happy-—they would all be Virtuous if they knew how. That knowledge-—of Excellence (Virtue)-—leads to great emotional and physical health and happiness. (no depression).

Vice destroys all chance of happiness. The psychiatric wards are filled with people who have never been virtuous. Only God gives Hope. Otherwise, there is no meaning to life and you are nothing and will have a short, brutal, nasty life or whatever Hobbs stated so succinctly when he described our world, as all atheists would.


52 posted on 10/06/2012 10:54:24 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Renfield

I tried ketamine a few times in powder....snorted.....35 years ago

Found it a goofy somewhat psychoactive tranquilizer

Not a mood elevator...to me anyhow

We called it Space Dust.....i recall being at Kincannon dorm at Ole Miss and we’re all rrying to pee.....laughing like in slow mo time warp for 20 minutes

Go to a vet....watch a cat on op table under high dosage....eyes wide open but kitty is actually on Pluto.....get the picture


53 posted on 10/06/2012 10:56:41 PM PDT by wardaddy (my wife prays in the tanning bed....guess what region i live in...ya'll?)
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To: Ken H

No—the Dutch are dependent on government for everything. They do not have to face the hardships of being free which is always way more stressful than having mommy and daddy take care of you from cradle to grave.

The Dutch lost their soul and freedom decades ago and they will all be bowing to Allah soon.


54 posted on 10/06/2012 11:00:11 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: savagesusie
Get Suicide and Murder Rates and percentage of people on “antidepressants” from PRIOR to the sixties

I don't have the stats on antidepressants, but can we agree the numbers are nowhere near today's 11% figure? Repeating, the suicide rate in 2005 was lower than in 1950 or 1960. Here are more historical murder stats...

According to FBI analysis, the homicide drop would mean that nearly 280 fewer Americans were murdered last year, which would be the lowest homicide death toll since the mid-1950s.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/11/12170947-fbi-violent-crime-rates-in-the-us-drop-approach-historic-lows?lite

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Now check out 'Figure 4' on page 7 at the link below for homicide rates from 1910-1944. The homicide rate in 2010 was lower than EVERY SINGLE YEAR from 1911 to 1944!

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/alcohol-prohibition-was-failure?

55 posted on 10/06/2012 11:47:15 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: savagesusie
No—the Dutch are dependent on government for everything. They do not have to face the hardships of being free which is always way more stressful than having mommy and daddy take care of you from cradle to grave.

So socialism leads to lower rates of murder and suicide because cradle to grave security is less stressful.

Are you sure you don't want to rethink that?

56 posted on 10/07/2012 12:07:28 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: informavoracious

I said at the end of my post:

“Get that settled and squared away, and THEN see if there is a need for meds.”

I never said NO meds.

I’ve seen many of my friends take meds for situational depression, and by virtue of them getting better to the point of not needing the meds, says a lot about the doctors....

I agree that if it is anything worse than that, then of course take the pills long term.


57 posted on 10/07/2012 12:30:01 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Ken H

You are asking ME to agree with government or corporation STATS or any statements or studies done by *research centers* financed by Soros-types or discoveries by our *Free* press?????? Ha——you will see me in hell before I would EVER believe any number or study put out by our Universities (other than Hillsdale) or those Leftist Foundations that control all perceptions of the useful idiots .....since I know all institutions and government in the US were infiltrated by Fabian Socialists in the early 1900’s. I’ve read Whittaker Chambers book, “Witness”, and “Keynes at Harvard”.

Do I really have to drag up Mark Twain and Statistics for you? He knew what was going on with agitprop and HE died in 1910 before Goebbels and Riefenstahl and BF Skinner and Marketing became a major tool in manipulating “feelings” to get you to “feel” what is really the truth.

I took a course on “Science Wars”. I also read Thomas Kuhn’s book. I know all about “truth” and “normal” science and bias.

De-programming is hard-—I know. But it is not impossible. Just throw out all studies done after John Dewey took over the Public School curricula—that Fabian Socialist, who destroyed American education (hopefully, you went to private school, like I did, or was homeschooled). Keynes was sainted and crowned at Harvard U. (maybe because of his sodomy, orgies and obsession with little boys).

All stuff coming out of the Leftist machine is pure ideology-—never science and Truth and it means nothing. It is all about agenda.

They want everyone on drugs. They want to kill off God, so all people are dependent on State. They want no hope, so that the State can be all and do all. They want no mommy and daddy—radical egalitarianism—there is no differences. They want no contamination of children by “parents”. They want strangers and the state to raise your children. It’s all there in Brave New World and 1984. Totalitarianism can not have independent, healthy minds free of drugs.

I believe in Christian individuality—the fact that everyone of us is a child of God and special and there is meaning in our lives. That individuality is what makes people independent, free and self-sufficient/responsible and it is because of a faith in God and Christian Ethics. Government will NOT allow God in our schools and public square. Why do you think they are creating little Marxist, Atheists? (Hint: W. F. Buckley, Jr. tells us in “God and Man at Yale” (1951))

The State only wants slaves (drugged-out minds will work also, and that is the reason for psychiatry, so they can incarcerate anyone they want, just like they do in China and take children away from parents.) Absolute Power over mind and body and control everything the children can think.

Anti-depressants are a tool of Satan-—to remove you from your emotions—so you become detached from reality. Well, if there is NO God—then everyone should want to be detached from reality. We have the State killing off God intentionally-—to destroy Christianity—the most successful, rational religion of all time since it was in line with the Laws of Nature. There is a reason these Leftists and Marx called Christianity a “Crutch”. Because people were *happy* with their lot in life and wouldn’t revolt.


58 posted on 10/07/2012 12:59:21 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: savagesusie
You are asking ME to agree with government or corporation STATS or any statements or studies done by *research centers* financed by Soros-types or discoveries by our *Free* press??????

LOL. I'll bet you would have believed them if they had bolstered your case.

You never raised those objections when you asked for stats on murder, suicide and antidepressant in a prior post. The murder stats came from the FBI and the Census Bureau (1910-1944 murder rate). Why ask for those stats if you weren't going to believe them?

59 posted on 10/07/2012 1:43:38 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: savagesusie
Anti-depressants are a tool of Satan-—to remove you from your emotions—so you become detached from reality.

Not quite. I have only seen one person taking antidepressants detached from reality. It was an adverse reaction to them a very bad adverse reaction indeed. A scientific reaction called Serotonin Syndrome. I've also seen them help persons. Both my wife and I can't take any form of antidepressants due to neurological damage. She has clinical depression and please spare me the she needs to get right with GOD sermom. That is not the issue. Far from it in her case. She's had far more on her platter than many likely could ever withstand.

As for me I have what is called General Anxiety Disorder triggered by several life long neurological disorders affecting sensory processing. It is not cureable. But it's non life threatening though. Both of us are long time users of Xanax in her case 27 years in mine close to 18 years now. I thank GOD for Xanax as it allows me to function without continuous seizures. I'm also a former PTSD patient. Several events put me into it the same time the anxiety disorder became a serious issue.

Depression comes from many things it can even be caused by ones thyroid gland or something as simple as a UTI. It can also be ones brain chemistry or even a portion of the brain not functioning properly. The problems in getting finding the origin often come from doctors due to their own time constraints and extensive testing cost placed on the patients end not being able to find the root cause if it can even be found.

I will say this much. Depression along with the meds needs to also be treated with counseling by someone trained in treating depression which takes years in most cases. It may even be life long for some.

60 posted on 10/07/2012 4:01:17 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Renfield

My brother, about six years ago, had an accident at work that Effd up his leg.

He now has a form of chronic degenerative nerve syndrome that continues to spread. Alot of pain and simple dysfunction. His skin turning odd colors depending on the circumstances.

He went to one clinic and got ketamine treatment.

Hallucinated like a mad dog. But he did say the pain went away.


61 posted on 10/07/2012 4:07:55 AM PDT by djf (Political Science: Conservatives = govern-ment. Liberals = givin-me-it.)
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To: WildHighlander57

But you did call them “happy pills.” That is an unfair terminology.


62 posted on 10/07/2012 8:07:02 AM PDT by informavoracious (I am a Sedevacantist. I believe the chair is EMPTY.)
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To: informavoracious

Ii was using the term in the context of when they are prescribed for situational depression.

But for clinical depression I will refer to them as simply “meds”


63 posted on 10/07/2012 8:48:45 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Ken H
Perhaps the Dutch are a more moral and religious people than Americans?

The Dutch have an extremely high standard of living which may help to ameliorate depression i.e. socialism there doesn't have its usual effect on the economy.

In addition, Holland shows sign of life; it's there where the Mohammed cartoon caused such controversy and it's there where the right has made some gains in recent years...growth of freedom brings relief from depression.

Compare that to the US which has been falling rapidly INTO socialism...not out of it. A better comparison would be France which has high suicide rates and a low standard of living.

64 posted on 10/07/2012 10:17:41 AM PDT by what's up
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To: wardaddy

“Go to a vet....watch a cat on op table under high dosage....eyes wide open but kitty is actually on Pluto.....”

The planet or the dog?


65 posted on 10/07/2012 12:08:08 PM PDT by Daniel II (Composite chicks dig me.)
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To: cva66snipe

If people are detached from their true emotions (by being drugged)-—they are detached from reality. I think you missed my point!

I am talking about subjective diagnosis—not when there is deduced medical issues, thyroid problems, etc. which can be located and treated. I am talking about the subjective diagnosis which labels people with no physical evidence
other than emotional traumas which they can’t “get over”.

Emotions exist for reasons. You have to get to the root of the emotion, not cover it up with drugs.

And—don’t rationalize the God part with me....read C.S. Lewis-—or the Bible—Job had much more reason to hate God and resent life, than your wife or you ever will have.

Understand Theology and you can understand that you are the most lucky person on earth because of Jesus Christ, and you will bask in great joy (and your wife will too). Life on earth is always short, nasty and brutish as the atheist Hobbs claims-—only God-Fearing people understand how unimportant this life is compared with eternity which gives meaning and vitality and hope—even if they are in prison and being killed like Boethius and Pastor Bonhoeffer. Get over yourselves.

Try it-—I know. It worked for me and CS Lewis and millions of other people. Better yet, read Boethius’s “Consolation of Philosophy” with your wife. There is profound insight into God and the Wheel of Fortune——Life. Get over your emphasis on youself-—put it where it belongs-—in the glorification of God and you and your wife will literally be in heaven. I guarantee it.


66 posted on 10/07/2012 2:34:20 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Daniel II

Quick...you are obviously not on K


67 posted on 10/07/2012 5:24:09 PM PDT by wardaddy (my wife prays in the tanning bed....guess what region i live in...ya'll?)
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To: savagesusie
How long was CS Lewis actually ill? Was it 28 years? Was he abused as a child then as an adult? You need to learn more about what science doesn't know but understand that chemical A gives patient A some relief and in many cases their life back.

Many disorders labeled mental illness are just now coming to light and being understood as other ailments with cognitive issues being symptoms and not the disorder itself. 18 years ago I was told I had General Anxiety Disorder and PTSD as well as OCB. All hit at the same time. I had went through some events in about 8 years time that took a toll on me mentally.

Things simply happened in my life faster than I could heal or deal with including my first wifes unexpected death in her early twenties, to meeting someone else and on a date she nearly died and spent six months in a hospital recovering from an unknown ailment that left her being a quadriplegic. After that there were several times in the first few years we were married she also nearly died. One was due to a Dentist prescribing a wrong pain medication which put her Comatose briefly. From that she developed PTSD. So a few years later needing dental work but fearing it a doctor writes an antidepressant. That in turn caused Serotonin Syndrome due to her neurological issues. Then we both had to deal with my onset nine years into our marriage.

I have disorders that 18 years ago medical science nor mental health even had a name for let alone recognized it as a separate disorder from General Anxiety Disorder. By taking my childhood history involving vision and inappropriate responses to certain sights and sounds along with my life long sinus allergies I was able to solve the puzzle. I was fortunate enough to figure out what was wrong.

My Inner Ears are shot as is the rest of my sensory processing system.

I've always had poor balance meaning from birth. I've always been one eye functional with vision in two eyes so it wasn't caught right off. I was told or rather my parents were told I had ADD ADHD as a kid. I don't. I have limited concentration resources. At the ripe old age of about 37 my sensory processing system complicated by stress developed into a disabling condition involving myoclonic seizure activity. PTSD made it worse and I mention only part of the traumatic events.

I know all about antidepressants as that was what they tried on me first. For some they are a God send help for others like myself they will make matters worse. It isn't the spiritual realm that causes the bad reactions or in-tolerances to antidepressants rather it is very likely a neurological issue the doctors can't pin point. That is when the medication can detach you from emotions.

In our stomach there is a digestion chemical called Serotonin. 98% of the Serotonin in our bodies is supposed to stay in the stomach. When the Serotonin migrates and travels to the brain it can be as bad as LSD. It's rare but it happens and I speak from what I have seen happen. The person becomes detached from self and reality. They don't know what they do or think. It's not because the person is out of touch with GOD it's because Serotonin has entered the brain and at they point they know not what they do or say. It happened to my wife. The end result was partial amnesia. Who disgnosed it? I was able to catch it with answers GOD lead me too.

My wife has been in one on one therapy for almost 12 years now dealing with depression. Depression for some persons simply is not curable. There can be substantial improvement for many though. They don't need sermons they need compassion and understanding. The illness can no more be cured than some cancers.

She has had bungling zealots walk up to her and say Oh it's your lack of faith which leaves you a quadriplegic if only your faith were stronger you could walk. How Christian is that? It isn't. Christ doesn't say that. Yet through all her problems from birth to her current 60 plus years she is firm in her love for Christ and her salvation through him. She deals with depression daily though. Some days are better than others for her.

I understand a lot more about The Bible than you think I do. I know what the power of GOD can overcome and I also know and understand we are not promised health and prosperity in this world. I do not believe in name it claim it theology. I do not believe as Charasmatics do either. GOD has His reasons for things being allowed to happen to persons. There can be healing granted, there can be be prayers asked for healing to be given. Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes it's no, sometimes it's wait.

Do you know why Aaron was made a Priest? It was because Moses had some issue with his speech possibly stuttering or possibly a fear of public speaking we call social phobia. The Bible doesn't say for certain what it was. Now GOD tells Moses "Who makes mouths?” the LORD asked him. “Who makes people so they can speak or not speak, hear or not hear, see or not see? Is it not I, the LORD? " Now GOD could have healed Moses at that point. GOD knew what Moses was going to say before he said it. Yet the problem wasn't taken from him rather Aaron became his spokesman. Why? Who knows? Maybe if Moses had good speech abilities his pride may have overcame his position GOD granted to him? Or is it through adversity GOD tempers us who will allow Him to do so?

Long before the antidepressants became popular I remember someone. When I was maybe 13 years old our church secretary an elderly woman had a nervous breakdown. Months later she was back in church and seemed happy. Then one day she took her life by jumping from a high bridge. I can't help but wonder that if the medications we have today may have allowed her some relief from her pain which tormented her.

Emotional pain is as every bit as real as any physical pain to the person experiencing it. Just as with physical pain emotional pain to some can become unbearable to the point rational judgement is lost. We don't walk up to cancer patients and say your medications keep you from your emotions/pain and GOD. Cancer is excepted in society. Mental health issues are seen as character flaws or a spiritual weaknesses in some sects believing the person can overcome it themselves.

My dad had OCB and depression and took an antidepressant the last 12 years of his life. The difference it made was substantial. Despite fighting cancer his last ten years of his life he was ale to enjoy living again. He did try once to go off the medication and he did it gradually. He suffered substantially for doing so and I talked him into going back on it.

Oh BTW the zealot that told my wife it was her lack of faith that prevented healing? Well a year later his wife caught him cheating with a woman at work. His name it claim it charasmatic preacher? He was caught up in a life style well beyond his means. Meaning the church funds were shall we say borrowed to support it.

For those I talk too who have depression I tell them get medical help and get a good therapist. I know quite a few therapist who are Christians. People have some misconceptions about treatment for depression and other illnesses referred to as mental illness.

A psychiatrist sees you maybe 15 minutes usually every three months to monitor and write medication. They treat symptoms only. A therapist can be seen as often as twice a week at first. The therapist are the ones with the GIFT who can help the person come to terms with their disorder and adapt. Those sessions are one on one usually an hour each session. The last thing a person with depression needs is more guilt and being preached too. Even the best skilled therapist sometimes can't reach a patient though.

68 posted on 10/07/2012 8:04:15 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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