Neanderthals and human lived side by side in Middle Eastern caves and even interbred

Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 9-29-2012

[ravenwolf]

*sigh* You can’t possibly be that dense, can you?

It’s not a riddle.

It is a serious question. Why would a critter living before there was any light have eyes?

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I am not trying to be rude but i don,t know what the hell you are talking about.

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In the total nonexistence of light eyes are a major liability, easily injured, easily infected, and a straight path to the brain for any number of parasites and pathogens.

In the total nonexistence of light a Cro-Magnon wouldn’t even know to blink to keep sand out.

Do try to think through the implications of what you assert, it’s much more intellectually honest than having to pretend to ridicule a serious point when someone points out an obvious non sequitur.

I ask again, if light had never existed, why would eyes exist?

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It may not be a riddle to you but it is to me because i never asserted no such thing, i have not said any thing about any creature having eyes before there was light.

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I would like to think that you really can do better than to dismiss the question.

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Maybe you are just so much more intelligent than i am that i can not understand your question, maybe you could make this ignorant country boy understand by showing me the exact words of my comment that you are referring to.

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Unless you can’t, In which case please do feel free to mock the question and/or ignore it.

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I will try not to mock the question if i think you are really serious and as you can see i am not ignoring it
but as i said i don,t know what you are talking about.

[null and void]

It may not be a riddle to you but it is to me because i never asserted no such thing, i have not said any thing about any creature having eyes before there was light.

I refer you back to your post #106 where you said:

the Cro Magnons who got here at some point before there was even light on the planet,

If you misspoke and that wasn't your intent to say that Cro Magnons where around before there was light, then I apologize for my snarky response, I was responding to what I read, not what you intended (what did you intend?)

Fingers getting ahead of brain is something that's happened to all of us. No harm, no foul.

[null and void]

Yep, i have read it, but since i don,t raise sheep or goats i don,t know any thing about it, you thought of it so why don,t you try it?

I'm just a poor sloburbanite, I don't have access to sheep and goats.

but even if every one got them the same and they actually constructed a flying saucer it would not fly because they would know nothing about the spirit of the thing, the thing that makes it tick.

"they would know nothing about the spirit of the thing, the thing that makes it tick." I'm stealing that!

i am not trying to prove to you that the Bible has the real facts, it makes no difference to me and i have nothing to prove, which i could not prove any way.

It makes a huge difference to me. I have an aching hole where you have faith.

[ravenwolf]

I refer you back to your post #106 where you said:

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Here is my 106 post

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Neanderthals and human lived side by side in Middle Eastern caves and even interbred
Wednesday, October 03, 2012 4:05:14 PM · 106 of 122
ravenwolf to varmintman

The conclusion I come to is that there had to have been at least two saltations of modern humans on this planet, that is, the Cro Magnons who got here at some point before there was even light on the planet, and the familiar Bible antediluvians starting with Adam and Eve.

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Like i may have mentioned, i believe in the Bible first, according to the Bible God made light long before he made man.

As far as the rest of it goes there would not be room in our minds if God would have told us every thing.

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The comment above the separation line was not my comment, that was just the comment that i was answering, the comment below the line was my comment. i some times put some ones complete comment down so that they will not have any doubt of what i am referring to.

probably my fault, sorry about that.

[null and void]

Yeow! I really muffed that one!

I find it's easier to track what I'm quoting vs what I'm saying by quoting <i>what the udder guy said in italics</i>.

If there are multiple people quoted in a single response I'll quote like so:

Twiggy ~ The world is flat

Andy Partridge ~ And all the world is football-shaped

Cthulhu ~ The world is tasty with Tabasco

I also tend to quote the source article in typewriter text:

<tt>The findings, reported in the Times, have led archeologists to believe the two sub-species found harmony in a coastal mountain range that today is in a state of war with its neighbours...</tt>

Doesn't always work, but you're welcome to it.

[ravenwolf]

Yeow! I really muffed that one!

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Yeah and you,re the only one that ever goofed, ha, ha.

Some people don,t even put any thing down referring to the comment they are answering and that may be confusing to some one who has made several comments.

I am almost computer illiterate so i just make a line, did i say computer illiterate? maybe i should have just said illiterate.

The guy i was commenting to knew who wrote what, but i can see that an other person could get confused.

No problem, just fun.

[null and void]

May as well double down here...

Varmintman ~ the Cro Magnons who got here at some point before there was even light on the planet

Why did Cro Magnons have eyes?

[varmintman]

Why did Cro Magnons have eyes?

I didn't really phrase that one the best...

Cro Magnons were genetically the same as anybody else walking around today more or less and their eyes were the same as ours. All but a handful of the animals you ever see today have eyes which are more or less what you're used to.

But Neanderthals and other hominids all had eye sockets much larger than ours:

The theory is that those are basically dark-world eyes, i.e. eyes made for a world which never saw daylight as we know it at all. I mean, some light, not entirely like the inside of a sealed vault or anything like that, but not what we'd call daylight. Dinosaurs all seem to have had those kinds of eyes:

http://news.discovery.com/animals/nocturnal-dinosaurs-night-fossil-110414.html

And a handful of very old kinds of creatures in our present world have those kinds of eyes, tarsiers, lemurs, bush babies etc.

Those kinds of eyes are for the world BEFORE whatever the "Let there be light" thing amount to had occurred.

One version of that story.....

[null and void]

OK. Better phrasing could have helped.

The site you linked requires too many violations of basic physics to actually work the way they explained. Still the effects they try to explain may have some observable truths.

I'll give you a twilight/half-light/dreamtime/purple haze time before light was divided from dark.

I'll give you Venus has a more recent history. Compare Venus to Mars. Mars has less gravity than Venus, about the same magnetic field, and a negligible atmosphere attributed to solar wind blasting it into space due to no protective magnetic field. Being further from the sun it has much less solar wind than Venus. Lower gravity and lower solar wind should just about offset each other.

Yet Venus crowded in close to the sun, and with no magnetic field to speak of has an immensely thick deep atmosphere.

That simply has to be more recent.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Lemurs, Tarsiers, and Bush Baby eyes being large being an indicator of anything more than being nocturnal animals.

For that matter, nearly all us mammals were nocturnal when dinosaur ruled the day. For the most part we all lost color vision in preference to being able to see anything in dim light.

A few mammals regained "full" color vision, mostly old world primates.

Ever egotistical, the top primate (primate, literally the First/Highest Order) declares the not only is he Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Man, the Wise, the very Wise) he has "Full" color vision. After all WE call see ALL the colors, red, green and blue!

Birds and lizards who see red, green, blue and one or two shades of ultraviolet laugh at us behind our backs...

But I digress.

Homo Neanderthalensis does indeed have big eyes. Big nose too.

I'd like to point out these are both adaptations for nocturnal activity.

Perhaps (finally getting back to something close to the original thread topic) the reason we and they could share caves is because we worked different shifts!

[varmintman]

I wouldn't put too much stock in Lemurs, Tarsiers, and Bush Baby eyes being large being an indicator of anything more than being nocturnal animals.

We have lots of nocturnal animals now; other than for the three or four I noted, none have the kinds of eyes which hominids or dinosaurs did. Big cats certainly don't have eyes like that.

[null and void]

True that.

Primates are notably deficient in the vibrissae department.

Gotta compensate somehow...

[null and void]

Owls?