The Third Atomic Bomb Was Going To Be Dropped On 19 August

National Security Archive ^ | 13 August 1945 | General Hull and Colonel Seaman

[moonshot925]

This is a telephone conversation transcript between Colonel Seaman of the Manhattan Project and General Hull of Marshall's staff that took place on 13 August 1945. The subject is atomic bomb deployment and production timeline.

[Domangart]

The material was at Mather AFB when the war was called off.

[moonshot925]

Here is what Downfall by Richard B. Frank says on page 303.

"General Farrell and Captain Parsons had met with General Twining, Admiral Nimitz, and General Spaatz, and by the afternoon of August 9th they urged Washington to review target lists since the 'effects at Trinity and Hiroshima ... [had] far exceeded optimistic expectations.' They 'expressly recommended' that the next bomb be dropped in the 'region of Tokyo' to achieve maximum psychological effect. On August 14, Twining submitted a new list of six targets in order of priority: Sapporo, Hakodate, Oyabu, Yokosuka, Osaka, and Nagoya."

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I do not think so. But it was on the list.

I think hitting Tokyo would have been part of a change in strategy from trying to convince them to surrender to inflicting as much damage a possible prior to an invasion.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

See number 42, above. Tokyo was not on the list. Yet.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I think production capacity was on the order of 8 bombs a month, 100 per year, so a rain of destruction from the sky, the likes of which has never been seen before, was no bluff.

[Vaquero]

Closer to Alamogordo on White Sands, know as the Trinity Site.

yup.....that one.

[US Navy Vet]

A-Bomb no 4=London
A-Bomb no 5=Paris
A-Bomb no 6=Berlin
A-Bomb no 7=Moscow
A-Bomb no 8=What’s left of Japan

[Secret Agent Man]

We should not have allowed the concept of the emperor being god, to continue to exist.

[dfwgator]

I think it was smart to leave the emperor in place as a way to keep Soviet influence out.

[tanknetter]

We should not have allowed the concept of the emperor being god, to continue to exist.

We didn't. Oh sure, there are still nationalists in Japan who think that way ... just like there are neo-Nazis in Germany despite the appropriately-draconian de-Nazification program enacted during the occupation. But they are relatively few and far between.

The process of tearing down the God-Emperor began almost immediately, when Hirohito was pretty much ordered to pay a social call on Douglas MacArthur (as opposed to the other way around). The result was one of the classic photographs of the 20th Century, one that - by intent - diminished the Emperor and helped the Japanese along in viewing the Emperor as the figurehead/symbolic representation of the state that he remains today:

[Cyber Liberty]

Gee, I wonder if this conversation was for the purpose of making the Nips think we were prepared to go Hiroshima over the whole country right away, when in fact the fourth A-bomb was actually months away?

Naahhhhhhh!

[Cyber Liberty]

I agree with that analysis. If we want a surrender, we need to leave someone powerful enough to do a credible job of it. Germany required a bit of pacification after Hitler croaked himself (leaving nobody in charge), and that’s the only good think about the Soviets deciding to keep a good share of Germany in their pocket. They were better pacifiers than we were, because they were more savage. Still are.

[tanknetter]

Germany required a bit of pacification after Hitler croaked himself (leaving nobody in charge)

Doenitz had enough credibility to surrender and have most of the German public, the Kreigsmarine, Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe follow along. The holdouts were really in the SS, and even then they were pretty ineffectual overall (see Operation Werewolf)

[Cyber Liberty]

Thanks!

[archy]

I had always been told that they only had enough fissile material for 3 devices.

Until we took the German cargo submarine U-235 and its cargo, which include 560 KG of Uranium Oxide.

[Tijeras_Slim]

I think you “enriched” the sub’s number. :)

[archy]

Course Tokyo got firebombed very badly and iirc 100,000 or so died. The nuke would have cracked their will to keep going right away with a dead nuked emperor false god destroyed.

Turning the top of Mount Fuji [about a hundred km from Tokyo] into an ashheap would have been a bit hard to keep from the Japanese people.

[archy]

I think you “enriched” the sub’s number. :)

Sort of:

U-234 was a type XB submarine, the largest class of German U-boat ever constructed. Of the eight that had been built, only U-234 and U-219 remained. The other six had paid a heavy price for their slow speed and lack of maneuverability (Helgason 1996).

Lieutenant Johann "Dynamite" Fehler, who had previously served on the infamous raider "Atlantis," was in command. In addition to his crew, Fehler was responsible for an important group of passengers: monocled Lieutenant General Ulrich Kesssler of the Luftwaffe; Colonels Sandrat and Neishling, also of the Luftwaffe; civilian rocket and jet experts; and most mysterious of all, Lieutenant Commanders Hideo Tomonaga and Genzo Shoji of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

Fehler’s mission: transport personnel and materials to Japan to support its war against the Allies. The final days of the Reich might be at hand, but what assistance could be provided Japan, would be provided. With a mission of such importance, Fehler had to avoid any possible contact with the enemy; U-234 ran deep and continuously submerged for two weeks after leaving Kristiansand. Only after making it through the English Channel into the Atlantic did Fehler feel sufficiently confident to surface for two hours each night

But events were at work beyond Fehler’s control. On May 10, the U-234 picked up a fatal shortwave transmission, Doenitz’s announcement of Germany’s surrender: "My U-boat men . . . you have fought like lions . . . lay down your arms." Instructions were given to proceed to the nearest allied port, but U-234 was so positioned that several possible destinations existed. Fehler decided to head to the United States. Unwilling to be captured, Hideo Tomonaga and Genzo Shoji committed suicide. On May 14, an American boarding party took over and directed the U-234 to Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Despite tight security, the arrival of U-234 at the docks became a major news event. Considerable coverage was devoted to the ship’s most illustrious passenger, Ulrich Kessler, e.g., "typical Hollywood version of a German general . . . as he strutted off the gangplank he casually looked around . . . and swaggered to a waiting bus. He wore a long leather great coat which reached to his ankles, highly polished leather boots and an Iron Cross." Much of U-234's top secret cargo, 240 tons of documents and war materials, was shipped to Washington and opened out of sight of the press’s cameras. A good deal was what might be expected, e.g., armor piercing antiaircraft shells. There were surprises, e.g., two Me-262 jet fighters. But, the biggest surprise of all came when 10 containers marked "Japanese Army" were opened. They contained 560 kg of uranium oxide!

Had the uranium reached its probable destinations, Osaka and the Riken Laboratory in Tokyo, enrichment via thermal diffusion might have been attempted.* Successfully enriched, the product would have been, by activity, mostly U-234!

Postscript: When General Groves, head of the U.S. atomic bomb effort, first learned of this submarine, it seems he was mistakenly informed that it was designated U-235, an idea that almost gave him "apoplexy."

[Tijeras_Slim]

Having some knowledge of Gen. Groves, I can picture the veins bulging out on his head.

[archy]

The material was at Mather AFB when the war was called off.

Which would have been Mather Army Air Field at the time. During the summer of 1945, the 509th Composite Group was transferring from its Second Air Force training base at Wendover Army Air Field, Utah, the group landed at Mather prior to embarking on its trans-Pacific movement to Tinian (in the Marianas Island chain). Due to the extraordinary security of the unit because of its atomic mission, the commanding general of Mather Field was told at gunpoint that he was not allowed on board the B-29 The Great Artiste, which had landed there.