Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan was Unavoidable
Self | August 5, 2012 | Self

Posted on 08/05/2012 1:27:24 PM PDT by Retain Mike

Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan Unavoidable

We now mark the 67th anniversary of dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end WW II. Once again we must listen to the contra-factual analysis of revisionists as they expound on what a needless, tragic and profoundly immoral decision the United States had made. In support of dropping the atomic bombs historians often cite the inevitability of horrifying casualties, if troops had landed on the home islands. They extrapolate from 48,000 American and 230,000 Japanese losses on Okinawa to estimates of 500,000 American and millions of Japanese casualties for mainland invasions. However, even these optimistic figures arise from studies preceding the unfolding recognition of American experiences on Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Such estimates could have vastly understated causalities, because Japan at 374,000 mountainous square miles mathematically enables over 500 defensive redoubts; fortifications comparable to that General Ushijima constructed to inflict most losses for the Okinawa invasion. This rapid increase in killing efficiency extended to planned stubborn defenses of their major cities just as the Germans had maintained in Berlin. The American “island hopping” strategy had ended, because the Japanese had determined the few regions within their mountainous country that could accommodate the huge armies and air forces needed. Harry Truman contemplated increasingly dire estimates causing him to reflect on the possibility of “an Okinawa from one end of Japan to the other”.

The Japanese War Faction maintained the lavish standard of 20 million Japanese deaths for planning final mainland battles; battles intended to inflict millions of casualties, and to convince America to abandon the Potsdam Declaration. The Japanese had concealed vastly underestimated quantities of kamikazes and aviation fuel, redeployed veteran Kwantung divisions, mobilized home defense armies, and distributed suicide bombs and bamboo spears to civilians become soldiers.

Americans also faced biological warfare. Occupation searchers uncovered large stockpiles of viruses, spirochetes, and fungus spores throughout rural Japan. These biological pathogens had already been tested on Chinese civilians. For Japan one delivery system directed citizen soldiers to infect themselves and stay behind the advancing troops.

The Greatest Generation and their parents would have been enraged to discover a cabal had ignored the nuclear option for ending the war just to indulge some personal moral orthodoxy. If there was any alternative, Harry Truman, Henry Stimson, and George Marshall were not about to procure the deaths of countless Americans in protracted ground campaigns following amphibious assaults exceeding D-Day.

The Japanese Privy Council debated the Final Battles arguments into utter physical and mental exhaustion for eleven hours following the Nagasaki bomb on August 9. For the final meeting of Hirohito and his Cabinet, eighty year old Barron Hiranuma was invited to attend, though he always fiercely disapproved of the war strategy. Among his several censures, he reproved Foreign Minister Togo for never making concrete proposals to the Russians and Minister Anami for accepting limitless nuclear warfare deaths without any opportunity to retaliate. The ministers had no answer.

At impasse Hirohito, the god-king, spoke the “Voice of the Crane” in the 30’ by 18’ sweltering, underground bunker. He would bear the unbearable, conclude the war, and transform the nation. Only then did Japan contact Swiss and Swedish foreign offices to commence negotiations with allied belligerents.

Here was demonstrated the critical role Kokutai played in surrender. Any prominent Japanese lived within an intimate spiritual three dimensional fabric of Emperor, citizen, land, ancestral spirits, government, and Shinto religion. Emperor Hirohito foresaw the probability of defeat and had appointed a Peace Faction in January 1944. However, he and his advisors conducted political kabuki through twenty months of continuous defeats, fire bombings of over 60 cities, and 1.3 million additional Japanese deaths. The atomic bombs removed the Final Battles argument, allowing the War Faction to relent, Hirohito to assume his unprecedented roll, and no one to lose face. Their cabal remained within the fabric of Japanese from all eras who had sacrificed for Emperor and Empire.

Another point says the bombs accomplished little. Supposedly Roosevelt’s decree of unconditional surrender was compromised away by allowing Japan to keep their Emperor. However by accepting the Potsdam Declaration, Japan abandoned the militarism that had committed the country to Asian conquest. The Emperor’s and the government’s authority became subject to the Supreme Allied Commander. Their authority was later subject to the Japanese people’s free expression for determining post war government that eradicated multi-millennial Imperial characteristics.

The moral failure to leave an Imperial Japan undefeated to prosecute a nuclear war generations hence was intolerable. The expectation of continuing 400,000 civilian and military deaths throughout Asia while diplomats dithered was intolerable. Allowing a blockade to operate interminably, while deferring to the War Faction any decision about whether Japanese and allied prisoner deaths met their 20 million standard was intolerable. Allowing the premeditated ignorance of revisionists center stage as the institutional knowledge of the Greatest Generation dies away is intolerable.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: atomicbombs; godsgravesglyphs; japan; worldwareleven; worldwarii; worldwartwo; wwii
The generation which developed the information and made the decisions for World War II, including dropping the atomic bombs on Japan, pretty much died by the time I graduated from high school. The generation which faced the tragic violence required for carrying out those decisions is rapidly passing away. Now we have the opportunity suffer the moral exhibitionism from members of subsequent generations who grew up in unprecedented luxury, and were sheltered from harm not of their own imagination.

As a byproduct of studying WW II history in retirement, I annually rework the above narrative. Below is a partial biography of the sources I used. The recently published book Hell to Pay by D. M. Giangreco is especially valuable. I was able to find confirmation of so many my other sources in his book. About 40% of the book is bibliography, appendices, and notes. The sound bites that generate popular attention are baseless, and if you are interested there is much opportunity for refuting these comfortable fictions.

Hell to pay, D. M. Giangreco

The Atomic Bomb and the End of WW II, The National Security Archive

Japanese Biomedical Experimentation During the WW II Era, Sheldon H. Harris, PhD

Japan’s Imperial Conspiracy, David Bergamni

Target Tokio: The Story of the Sorge Spy Ring, Gordon Prange

1 posted on 08/05/2012 1:27:31 PM PDT by Retain Mike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

Truman might the right call, it shouldn’t even be open to question. Upwards of 1 million US casualties alone to cover the butts of the Japanese aggressors? No thanks. God bless Truman, the last decent Democrat.


2 posted on 08/05/2012 1:35:49 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Now a Chick-fil-A customer . . . God bless Dan Cathy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

Too bad we couldn’t drop them on December 8, 1941.


3 posted on 08/05/2012 1:37:23 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Siri: Gold Baby, Gold!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
This is a story that I love to tell. My late father was a Mud Marine in the Pacific. To this date, I still find it difficult to imagine the hardships and deprivations he and his fellow Marines had faced throughout the length of the war.

When Japan surrendered and it was made known that President Truman made the decision to use these new weapons, my dad was a lifelong admirer of Harry Truman.

Sometime during the late 70’s or early 80’s, I was taking my dad to a baseball Cardinals night game for his birthday. He did indeed love the Cardinals, but felt he couldn't afford tickets, primarily as a result of being raised during the depression.

I was parked away from the park and when we were waiting for the light at Market and Tucker in St. Louis, a young kid asked us if we were registered voters and we said yes. At this point, the kid asked if we'd sign a petition, which demanded the Congress and the U.S. government apologize to the Japanese government and people.

It's interesting to note, that prior to this event, you could always tell how mad dad was by the number of veins pulsating in his neck. The most I had seen was two. Well, dear old dad, went from zero to three in about 0.5 seconds, grabbed the clipboard and ripped the petitions to shreds.

The kid was obviously terrified and all I could say was, “Mud Marine in the Pacific. No sense of rumor.”

In retrospect I want to say, “Thanks, Dad, and thanks to every man and woman who served their country in such a gallant manner.”

4 posted on 08/05/2012 1:40:56 PM PDT by cgchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
This is a story that I love to tell. My late father was a Mud Marine in the Pacific. To this date, I still find it difficult to imagine the hardships and deprivations he and his fellow Marines had faced throughout the length of the war.

When Japan surrendered and it was made known that President Truman made the decision to use these new weapons, my dad was a lifelong admirer of Harry Truman.

Sometime during the late 70’s or early 80’s, I was taking my dad to a baseball Cardinals night game for his birthday. He did indeed love the Cardinals, but felt he couldn't afford tickets, primarily as a result of being raised during the depression.

I was parked away from the park and when we were waiting for the light at Market and Tucker in St. Louis, a young kid asked us if we were registered voters and we said yes. At this point, the kid asked if we'd sign a petition, which demanded the Congress and the U.S. government apologize to the Japanese government and people.

It's interesting to note, that prior to this event, you could always tell how mad dad was by the number of veins pulsating in his neck. The most I had seen was two. Well, dear old dad, went from zero to three in about 0.5 seconds, grabbed the clipboard and ripped the petitions to shreds.

The kid was obviously terrified and all I could say was, “Mud Marine in the Pacific. No sense of rumor.”

In retrospect I want to say, “Thanks, Dad, and thanks to every man and woman who served their country in such a gallant manner.”

5 posted on 08/05/2012 1:41:57 PM PDT by cgchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

“Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan was Unavoidable” I think a better title would be “Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan was The Best CHOICE”.

Dropping The Bomb was avoidable and let us not try to wish away the fact that we made a deliberate decision to indiscriminately kill the people of Japan. Not having good choices did not mean we were without choices.

I will never question the decision that was made and will defend it to anyone who questions it. I pray that our future leaders will have the same clarity as they did then should we be faced with similar circumstances today.


6 posted on 08/05/2012 1:45:36 PM PDT by FreedomNotSafety
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

I would add: “Downfall” by Richard B. Frank, to that list.

The bloodbath would have made the Pacific War, up to that point, pale by comparison. The only sane decision for the Japanese would have been to surrender after the first conventional landings, once the Allies showed their resolve. If the militant faction held sway and fought to the last man, so to speak,......complete carnage. Nothing on the Eastern Front would have equaled it.

My uncle was on Okinawa with the 6th MARDIV. He said that you could “feel” the collective sigh of relief when the announcement of surrender was made. They knew they would live now.

To the leftists, especially the academics, who continue to berate the US over that decision I say: That decision actually saved Japan, as a nation. The civilian casualties, should the assault go full term to conclusion, would have been many times higher than the IJA casualties. To a man and woman, every Japanese National that I ever discussed this subject with, agreed completely. The decision was sound and correct.


7 posted on 08/05/2012 1:49:45 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

It is one of the absurdities of modern Political Leftism. They want to argue that it was some how immoral to use the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs. That we could of “Besieged” the Japanese.

That utter nonsense. The infrastructure of the Japanese islands was breaking down. Japan could not feed it self and rely ed on food imports. Instead of killing Japanese Civilians in the tens of thousands. The Leftist “Siege” would of killing millions from disease, starvation and malnutrition. EVEN then there is NO indication that would of broke the Japanese will. Japanese soldiers hung on various pacific islands for decades after WW 2 ended. Even after the bombs dropped die hard militarists tried to stop the Emperor from surrendering.

Then their is the question. What response would the Japanese been to an invasion and occupation. The Left screams about the Iraqis “Insurgency” what do you suppose a Japanese Insurgency would of done? Also, who knows if the Japanese would of survived as a people? The Civilian and Military casualties on Siapan and Okinawa were horrific. Give the intensifying tempo of suicide attacks,the fire power brought down on the Japanese Home Island prior to and during an Invasion would of killed tens of thousands if not millions of civilians as well as military forces


8 posted on 08/05/2012 1:50:32 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
I think it was a damn good thing.

My father was scheduled to be a landing craft driver in the invasion of Japan. There is better than a fair chance that he would have been killed.

I got to meet and thank General Chuck Sweeney who flew "Bock's Car" which dropped the second atomic bomb.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

9 posted on 08/05/2012 1:52:20 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike; All

lets forget about the deaths that were avoided when there was no direct assault of ground troops on the Jap main island by America and the allies...think of the people; POWS, innocent civilians, Korean comfort woman, who were saved from death by the dropping of these bombs- people who were being worked to death in slave labor at POW camps around east Asia (McDonnell and others), people being worked to death in places such as the Siam-Burma railway never mind the innocent people who were being tortured and killed by the Japs for amusement...

the 100’s of 1000’s of people basically condemned to death by the Japs is what people forget and that alone was worth the value of dropping the bombs...


10 posted on 08/05/2012 1:53:02 PM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

The bomb saved lives (period) That war would have gone on for another 10 years at least. There were Japanese still fighting in Guam years later still trying to jump off a cliff with hand grenades kill people at the base.

These people don’t realize that the emperor of Japan was God on earth. These people would do anything for their God.

Think Jim Jones with 100+M followers.


11 posted on 08/05/2012 1:53:49 PM PDT by dila813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: A_Former_Democrat

War is requires the ultimate cruelty and cannot be sanitized or made humane if one seeks to win. The most humane thing one can do is to end the war quickly as possible with the means at hand.

What is the difference if the enemy dies by bullets, (nuclear) bombs or fire? The object of war is to impose one’s will upon the enemy and make their lives so insufferable as to break their will to continue further resistance.


12 posted on 08/05/2012 1:56:48 PM PDT by Sea Parrot (Once I was young, now I am old and the in between went way too fast)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: God luvs America

Additionally, it should be added that a POW taken at the fall of the Philippines and a survivor of the death march stated flatly that, should the Allies have invaded, all, ALL...the POW’s would have been murdered.

Nobody discounts the Burma prison camps, the Chinese plight, the forced labor or the civilian deaths. Unlike Nazi Germany, most of that was a known before the end of the war. It was the utter and complete brutality that was underestimated.


13 posted on 08/05/2012 2:02:13 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: MNJohnnie

The Leftist “Siege” would of killing millions from disease, starvation and malnutrition. EVEN then there is NO indication that would of broke the Japanese will


Yes. This is where the leftist argument breaks down completely. They had essentially been besieged since prior to the Okinawa campaign. They were starving. The hardcore Nationalists would have staged a coup, and tried to, if the political will to continue would have been subverted by the “peace faction.”


14 posted on 08/05/2012 2:07:39 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: dila813

If we had to invade Japan, the Soviets would have gotten involved as well, and claimed half of Japan, they already got Sakhalin as it was.

Then Japan would have been divided, just like Korea and Germany. And who knows if you would have had another civil war on our hands, just like with Korea.

Not to mention once the Communists seized power in China, they certainly would have staked their claim as well.


15 posted on 08/05/2012 2:12:09 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: 98ZJ USMC

Even after the bombs were dropped, there were fanatics who attempted to kill Hirohito before he could make his fateful broadcast. If that happened, all bets were off.


16 posted on 08/05/2012 2:14:27 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

Dropping the relatively small nuclear weapons was the right choice.

It saved our boys...it saved their boys as well..and many civilians on their side.

I have a terrible premonition that very soon Israel will be forced to use nuclear weapons. It will begin with small neutron weapons but may escalate from there.

The whole world will condemn them, but they have the same right and obligation to protect their people as we did in 1945.

Wars cannot end unless you utterly defeat the enemy, it is cruel to both parties to continue on endlessly.


17 posted on 08/05/2012 2:20:13 PM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
Dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan was AWESOME.

There is no way they would have gotten so entertainingly weird if they hadn't been nuked.


18 posted on 08/05/2012 2:27:40 PM PDT by Lazamataz (I love the Universe, and it loves me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Even after the bombs were dropped, there were fanatics who attempted to kill Hirohito before he could make his fateful broadcast. If that happened, all bets were off.


Exactly.


19 posted on 08/05/2012 2:28:49 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Bobalu

Wars cannot end unless you utterly defeat the enemy, it is cruel to both parties to continue on endlessly.


Just another truism that the left cannot understand.

At. All.


20 posted on 08/05/2012 2:32:05 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Retain Mike.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


21 posted on 08/05/2012 2:32:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

Watch the films from Saipan - entire families of Japanese civilians throwing themselves off of cliffs because of the propaganda their government fed them about U.S. forces. An invasion of Japan would have been a bloodbath for the Japanese.


22 posted on 08/05/2012 2:43:20 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 98ZJ USMC

I was a not quite 19 year old infantry replacement standing in a line on Leyte to get battle gear for the coming invasion of Japan. When a slightly older Lt. came out and told us to go back to our tents because the war was over there was a feeling of relief. However, for me there was some mixed emotions because I would never get the opportunity to try for revenge over my one and only older brother being killed on Okinawa. I am very honest in my feelings that at the time I wanted to kill as many and any Japs as possible and I believe many if not most of the infantry being prepared for the invasion felt the same. Our training was to be killers. We were told and realized the invasion would be costly in lives on both sides. I suppose some had serious trepidation but for me and many others it was ‘lets get it on’. No doubt the atomic bombs saved many millions of lives by taking out a fewer amount. I have never felt remorse over the Jap lives lost in the war because I grew up knowing about the heinous actions of the Jap soldiers and watched as the Jap civilians praised their warriors.


23 posted on 08/05/2012 2:45:22 PM PDT by noinfringers2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan was Unavoidable
***Of course it was avoidable. All we needed to do was to accept ~1M American casualties.

Here’s a simple question: How many Americans died in the 2 2 dropped atom bomb missions? The ratio to dead enemy to dead Americans was way more than 100X better than any other mission in Japan. That’s because NO Americans lost their lives in the raid. Previous raids cost dozens of American lives.


24 posted on 08/05/2012 2:56:22 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LonePalm

My wife and I got to meet General Tibbets about 15 years ago at an airshow.


25 posted on 08/05/2012 3:08:50 PM PDT by DFG ("Dumb, Dependent, and Democrat is no way to go through life" - Louie Gohmert (R-TX))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: All

There has to be something inherently wrong with a society capable of such atrocities as the Japanese

The Massacre, Rape and Plunder of Nanking

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_history_ww2_ops_battles_1937nanking.php

Japanese forces advanced towards Nanking from Shanghai, attacking from three directions on 25 November. The Chinese General Tang Sheng Zhi commanded an army of over a hundred thousand men, but they were poorly led by officers who deserted as the fighting intensified. When the city fell on 13 December 1937, a third of the Chinese Army was still within the walls, shedding their uniforms and trying to hide among the civilians.

For a period of six weeks after the fall of Nanking, the Chinese were not simply murdered. They were tortured, brutalized, and raped. The Japanese used every variety of murder. Chinese victims were:

•Chased into the Yangtze River with machine guns, drowning them
•Drenched with gasoline, then shot so they burned like candles
•Mutilated by cutting off testicles or gouging out eyeballs, then burned while alive
•Tied to posts in groups, then executed with grenades or machine guns.
•Covered with acid until dead from the corrosive effects
•Attacked with awls or other tools or clubs
•Eviscerated and confronted with their internal organs
•Beheaded in swordplay displays by Japanese officers
•Used for grotesque experiments by Japanese doctors and scientists
Women and babies were singled out for special tortures:

•Women were beaten on the vagina with fists and other objects until dead
•Babies were skewered and tossed into boiling water
•Fetuses were cut from living pregnant women and put into jars of preservative
•Large numbers of women were gang raped and tortured, then killed
•Rape victims left alive had their stomachs cut open or their breasts chopped off
•Women were kept as sex slaves at the service of any Japanese man
Japanese soldiers laughingly made games out of these atrocities. Japanese officers organized contests to see what soldier could kill the most Chinese in a given time with numbers as high as 500 required to win. Tokyo newspapers, such as Nichi-nichi, printed stories about the contests with pride and praise for winners.

The Japanese government also sponsored bombings on villages to test germ warfare agents for later use on the United States.


26 posted on 08/05/2012 3:15:48 PM PDT by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: 98ZJ USMC
a survivor of the death march

I have no doubt they would all have been murdered. My uncle, for whom I am named, did not survive the Death March. I consider the Philippines to be my adopted country, and plan to retire there soon.

27 posted on 08/05/2012 3:20:49 PM PDT by Mark17 (California, where English is a foreign language)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

In retrospect it was the merciful thing to do. Far fewer Japanese died in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings than would have died in an American invasion. It’s that simple.


28 posted on 08/05/2012 3:26:15 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

My Pop. combat engineer, 4th I.D, was scheduled, with his division to get shipped to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. Why? The “practice” they’d had on Urtah Beach on June 6th. Talk about one happy camper.

As for remembering Hiroshima, my uncle was killed on Guam. He would have never been there if the Japs hadn’t started the Pacific war. So every year, I commemorate the bombing. I have a pint of fried rice.


29 posted on 08/05/2012 3:28:17 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

Some historians belief that Truman had another consideration in addition to saving as many lives as he could. Russia was about to enter the war against Japan and Truman wanted the war over before the Russians could get involved. As it is they occupied several Japanese Islands and have never returned them. Whatever the reasons involved Truman did the right thing.


30 posted on 08/05/2012 4:07:27 PM PDT by J.Deere Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

If it wasn’t for the atomic bombs, I would not been born.


31 posted on 08/05/2012 4:39:53 PM PDT by FoxPro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
Good post. I offer four additional points:

(1) Japan sought to develop an atomic bomb but failed due to inadequate resources and time. The effort though revealed Japan's lack of moral qualms about using atomic warfare against the US and others had they succeeded.

(2) The Japanese intended to kill all their prisoners of war as soon as the US invaded. As it was, US military prisoners held by the Japanese were treated brutally and suffered a 40 per cent death rate, which compares to a 1 per cent death rate suffered by US military prisoners held by the Nazis.

(3) The Japanese leadership, through intelligence sources and their atomic weapons research, knew that the US was ready and poised to use atomic bombs on the Japanese homeland. Surrender was discussed but not seen as necessary because US atomic bombs were judged as not militarily decisive due to the damage already inflicted by US air raids, the movement of key war industry plants to impervious deep mountain tunnels, and the low US production rate for atomic bombs.

(4) Immediately after the war, in order to deflect guilt for starting the war and for extraordinary brutality in waging it, Japan's leaders instructed their domestic allies and embassies abroad to propagandize against nuclear warfare as uniquely horrific. Perversely, this worked to develop sympathy for Japan despite its moral culpability. America's news media still annually discuss the atomic bombing of Japan as morally questionable, while the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, biological warfare against the Chinese, and many other Japanese atrocities are infrequently mentioned even in that context.

32 posted on 08/05/2012 5:00:34 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rockingham; J.Deere Man; PzLdr; Uncle Chip; Kevmo; Flag_This; dila813; God luvs America; ...

You folks make some great points. I am already at 805 words, so I doubt a piece this long piece will ever see the light of day and I see I only allude to your stories with a sentence at best. Thank you for your interest.


33 posted on 08/05/2012 6:51:08 PM PDT by Retain Mike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Rockingham; All

as per #4- it was as much the fault of that moron Douglas MacArthur that the Japs got off easy as much as anything else...from Unit 731 to everything else you mentioned, no one was feeling sorry for the Japs yet at the same time there was little pressure placed on them to really pay for their atrocities...were the world constantly reminded of Jap atrocities were constantly the way we are constantly reminded of the Holocaust, Japan would never be able to live it down...


34 posted on 08/05/2012 7:17:37 PM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Rockingham

Excellent points. Add to it, there hasn’t been a world war since and the bomb has clearly been a deterrent. Upwards of 72 million people died over the idol-worship of 3 humans (sub-humans). Instead of railing against the bomb, the focus ought to be on never, ever again of treating any individual(s) as messiah-types, especially those who’s history indicates a philosophy of centralized power.

Never, ever.


35 posted on 08/05/2012 8:45:32 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Now a Chick-fil-A customer . . . God bless Dan Cathy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: cgchief

Every one, adults and kids, should have to watch and discuss film clips, photos and narratives of WW II, esp the war in the Pacific. 17 year olds hitting the beaches of Iwo Jima and Okinawa, Normandy. I can’t even begin to fathom the terror. The USS Indianapolis. Pearl Harbor, the battle for Berlin.

And this ingrate punk wants an “apology”? Good Lord there are some really stupid brainwashed idiots in our midst.


36 posted on 08/05/2012 8:52:26 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Now a Chick-fil-A customer . . . God bless Dan Cathy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: FreedomNotSafety

Your comment about the title makes much more sense in terms of what the narrative says. I changed it to “Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan Was Imperative”. Thank you.


37 posted on 08/05/2012 9:40:49 PM PDT by Retain Mike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: God luvs America
The handful of war crimes prosecutions that MacArthur initiated so roiled relations with the Japanese that a larger effort was seen as inadvisable. In that, and much else, the developing Cold War clash with Communism overshadowed the post-war settlement with Japan.

Wisely, MacArthur vetoed Russian participation in the Japanese occupation and secured the basis for Japan eventually becoming a reliable ally of the US. MacArthur even provided for a constitution for Japan that was, by American standards, well to the Left, with key parts written by Norman Cousins no less.

MacArthur has much to answer for. I am not sure though that he and the US could have insisted on wide scale war crimes prosecutions without doing damage to compelling strategic interests.

38 posted on 08/05/2012 10:06:25 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: A_Former_Democrat

Unfortunately, a large slice of the human race remains in thrall to toxic beliefs and leaders. At least for now, we are better armed and have the upper hand.


39 posted on 08/05/2012 10:11:31 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: cgchief

Your dad did good making his point to the classic liberal waste of oxygen holding the clipboard.


40 posted on 08/06/2012 12:34:09 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Bobalu

It may be cruel no to defeat your enemy, but the military industrial establishment gets rich from it. They have a strong vested interest in prolonging wars.


41 posted on 08/06/2012 12:36:45 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
I was friends with our county sheriff (deceased) who was a Motor Machinist’s Mate 2 in the Navy. He was assigned as boat engineer on an LCVP landing craft. His attack transport was scheduled for the invasion of Japan after surviving numerous kamikaze attacks off Okinawa. His LCVP was scheduled for the first wave of the landing with 36 troops.

When news of the atomic bombings came and then the Japanese surrender, he said that he and all the other sailors, soldiers, and Marines felt their death sentences had been commuted. President Truman's decision save millions of American and Japanese lives. There can be NO argument on this fact.

42 posted on 08/06/2012 4:32:36 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike

We used to know how to fight war.


43 posted on 08/06/2012 8:51:25 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Viva Christo Rey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rockingham

I’m not certain how a society should handle the phenomenon of the sadistic personality type. It all depends on the time and resources available. In war, such time and resources devoted to rehabilitation is severely limited. That the engineers of cultural sadism need to be got rid of ASAP cannot be argued against.


44 posted on 08/06/2012 10:24:38 AM PDT by Yollopoliuhqui
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Yollopoliuhqui

In traditional Japan, brutality and sadism were common and endorsed in the service of the Emperor and they remain an undercurrent in contemporary Japanese culture. Yet Japan is otherwise a remarkably orderly and polite society.


45 posted on 08/06/2012 1:00:00 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: MasterGunner01

When I was in the Navy around the Vietnam time I went to Boat Group Officer school at the amphib base in San Diego. The chief running the class said my chances of surviving one opposed landing in WW II were 3 out of 10. If you know statistics it drops to less than one out of ten for two assaults.


46 posted on 08/06/2012 2:12:17 PM PDT by Retain Mike
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: A_Former_Democrat
3 humans

4

47 posted on 08/06/2012 2:32:36 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson