Posted on 04/27/2012 5:36:19 AM PDT by stickandrudder
A man who allegedly killed his 13-year-old half-sister survived a fusillade of bullets from New York City police officers early Tuesday, after pointing his pistol at officers.
Officers responded to a 911 call at 2971 Eighth St. in Harlem at 3:27 a.m. Tuesday.
Steven Murray, 28, had allegedly shot his mother Christine Fryar, 44, and her daughter Annie, according to the NYPD. Paramedics arrived to find the daughter dead with a gunshot wound to the head. The mother, who was also shot in the head, was transported to Harlem Hospital, and is listed in critcal condition.
Police eventually confronted Murray, who was running through the surrounding neighborhood. The officers pursued Murray on foot and returned fire after he fired one shot.
NYPD Sgt. Alexander Mesa fired 39 shots, and Officer Joseph Robinson got off 45 rounds. Murray was hit 14 times, and refused to drop his weapon, reports the New York Daily News.
Murray has been charged with murder and attempted murder.
Seems like “spray and pray” has replaced marksmanship.
Methamphetamine much ?
In other news, the recent DHS purchase of a half billion rounds of ammo now makes a tad more sense.
Assuming 15 round mags,Officer Robinson probably expended every round he was carrying.So he was standing there defenseless.
70 rounds of supressing fire.
I’m sure not all the shots were carefully aimed.
Massed Ayoob on a video of a morbidly obese criminal being shot by a cop multiple times: “don’t shoot him in a body part he doesn’t want.”
I can see shooting back after the perp fired on the cops, but reloading several times after one shot?
He was hit 14 times and survived? What were the cops using, BB guns?
What were they shooting at? They missed the target with 70 shots?
The comments to the article are a bit surprising—————at least IMHO.
That's a good point. Where the hell did an LEO get 45 rounds of ammunition? He must have had to stop to reload clips? A lot of ammo comes in 50 rd boxes, but I don't imagine the LEO carry a box of ammo in their pocket. I can see two extra clips and maybe a back up gun. Surely they ran out of ammo.
Now that I think about it, its a bit embarrassing.
My only thought about it is that it seems like blind fearful panic on the parts of the two LEO shooters. One shot from a perp and they massively and methodically unload their complete ammo cache down range willy nilly.....very professional.
Actually, better than 15% hits in a real-world shooting incident at greater than contact distances is pretty darn good.
And in answer to your question, into the ground, nearby walls, etc.
Old police joke: “Why’d you shoot him 44 times?”
Answer: “Ran out of ammo.”
You’ve never heard of suppression fire? As long as one of you is shooting it makes it that much harder for him to get off a good shot. In combat, in World War II, Korea and Vietnam, approximately one round of small arms fire in 10,000 hit a target and four out of five people hit with small arms survived.
The police in New York used to use the .38 Police Special, not for it’s stopping power, but lack of stopping power. The round is unlikely to penetrate walls and ceilings and strike by-standers. It’s a feature, not a bug.
Most police officers are trained that, when you have to shoot, to continue shooting rapid-fire until the perp goes down. So, yes, they probably emptied their magazines into him. Then again, cops have one or two spare mags on their belts.
Hmmm...maybe 16 years old is too start raising a productive member of society.
Perp goes in to rob a jewelry store with a .357 Mag revolver. Employee hits silent alarm. Perp caps first cop through the door and kills him; a hostage standoff ensues.
More cops and SWAT arrive. Cops are armed with Glock 17s, H&K MP5 SMG, and 5.56mm AUGs. Cops send in a negotiator who is promptly shot and wounded. Hostage drama continues.
Perp and hostage leave store and he manages his way down the street (hostage in tow) to another store. While forcing the door, the hostage makes a break and the cops unload on the perp to the tune of 1,200 rounds (approximately). [Perp has forced the door and is inside the building when the fusillade hits.] Unscathed, but with no way to make an escape, the perp commits suicide.
Rounds expended count
1. Perp: 3 of 6 for 2 KIA and 1 WIA.
2. Vienna PD and SWAT: 1,200 for zero hits.
Hello, Vienna PD, can you say marksmanship training?
I don’t know what he was carrying, but a Glock 17 mag happens to hold 17 rounds. A Glock 22 holds 15. So the mag in the pistol plus two spares is enough. A standard belt mag holder carries two magazine.
I have more than 45 rounds in my car. Just sayin’. 45 rounds isn’t that big of a deal.
This guy had just shot his mother and his sister in the head, and you think the police opening up on him is an overreaction? I respectfully disagree.
My cousin retired as a Lieutenant of Detectives from the NYPD, working on the Manhattan DA's homocide squad to finish his career. He never drew his revolver in 20 years on the force. He actually once talked a gentleman distraught over a fight with his wife to surrender his weapon without drawing his own. If someone had ever taken a shot at him, I doubt that he would have hesitated to return fire with every thing he had.
Yea....good LEO practice.....somebody pops a cap off at you and you unload your stash with a couple/three mags worth not hitting what you aimed at....don’t even try to compare this to combat in Korea, Viet Nam or WWII....this was in NYC for cripes sake. Let’s just publish NYPD’s new policy of apparently careless massive SUPPRESSION FIRE in the paper and see what its citizens think.
One shot and the attack on the half sister establish he is a threat to the public at large.
Even if he dropped the pistol and kept running, the police would be right to shoot him. (per police manual)
The 70 misses, though, are concerning.
Sounds like defense to me, not panic.
I figured he most likely had 3 mags,so he’d be out of ammo at 45 rounds expended.
84 shots and no dead body is pretty embarrassing. This is a crowded city.
A revolver, even with a couple of quick loads in nowhere equivalent to .40 semi-auto or similar with at least three 15 round backup mags from two LEOs. I’d hazard to guess your cousin with his revolver might actually have hit someone with 1/10 of the spray and pray. I think if you asked your cousin about this, he might tell you what he’d have done differently.
I hope someone counted the empty brass.
NYPD uses Glock 17’s now IIRC. They switched from the ubiquitious S&W Model 10 some time ago. Having been used to DA revolvers they had a rash of “foot shots” until they went to a 11 pound trigger in the Glock, called the NY Trigger.
Just goes to show what fear and adrenaline can do. Also, the shorter the barrel, the easier to miss a full grown man at even a small distance of 25' or less - epsecially if you don't have the luxury of taking a stance and using two hands to take a steady aim. We are so into the movies wher a guy takes a snap shot with a pistol and takes out the right eye of someone else at 100', that we base our thoughts and expectations on illusions. My wife and I practice often so we know how we shoot when in "hurry mode" and it allows us to compensate if necessary. Of course we haven't tried it when someone else is shooting at us, so we have no idea of how a real situation will go down....
Is this some other Harlem I'm heretofore unaware of?
________________________________________
Unless he carried a back-up as I did doing the same job.
My guess is those two LEOs weren’t loading frangibles in their mags....most likely the hottest/hardest rounds they could get.
” Paging Al Sharpton ...Paging Al Sharpton ...”
It helps to aim too...
Mike
Agree....
Seems like “spray and pray” has replaced marksmanship......Back in the ‘70’s at the Ohio Highway Patrol Academy, the cops with autos were noticeably poorer shots than the old wheel gunners.
I think the cops could do with much more range time; and,
what is it with shooting the mother and sister? How much of a degenerate could the guy be?
Last summer I had jury duty. It was a murder case. The accused shot his grandfather in the chest because he refused to give him a hundred dollars for booze and drugs.
The prosecution’s witnesses were the guy’s mother, grandmother and sister.
When I was questioned during the jury selection process, I simply stated that if his own mother, grandmother and sister were the eye witnesses, why were we wasting time with a trial? I was dismissed and allowed to go home.
Which is easy for me to say from the comfort of my chair, and not so easy to do when facing an armed perp at 3am in Harlem.
I agree. Training, training, training. That is what is lacking here. How to be cool under pressure and to hit what you aim at. I would expect no less from ANY LEO.
(they seem to be able to hit every DOG they aim at).
.45 ACP when you “care” enough to send the VERY BEST! These “Cops” probably had WIMPY 9 mm!
This may sound strange but for the circumstances 14/85 is probably above average shooting.
Pistols just aren’t all that accurate and it sounds like this was a running gunfight.
A rifle might be a better option in a situation like this. Better to let the guy gain a few yards while taking careful aim and squeezing off one shot.
That said, rifles have their own drawbacks.
Women and little guys can’t shoot the .45 well and they hold less ammo. Same reason the Army went to 9mm. Besides, the .40 hits harder anyway.
It was a good day in Vienna! /s lol
Were they shooting revolvers?
14/85 wouldn’t allow them to requalify at the firing range, but then paper targets don’t shoot back. I very much doubt there were any warning shots or “suppression fire.” Police are trained to “shoot center of mass” until the threat is no longer a threat. Sounds like that’s what happened here.
How much reading have you done about real-world shooting incidents of this nature?
I haven’t done all that much, and I know that this really isn’t bad shooting. In fact, it is at least average for a two-way range encounter, based on what I’ve read.
Real world shooting incidents aren’t the same as being at the qualifying range.
I'm guessin' there weren't any NYers in the first 27 posts...at least any that are aware of there own city.
...or there could be some foul odors coming from some nearby apartments in the coming week.
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