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Baseball rule question (please don't kill me!)
Self | 4/5/'12 | Zionist Conspirator

Posted on 04/05/2012 1:25:54 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator

I know the rules of baseball can be arcane and--dare I say it?--Talmudic. But I saw something in today's Braves/Mets opener that I simply don't understand. I've done a web search but come up blank.

It's the bottom of the second. Ike Davis is at bat for the Mets; first base is open. He has two strikes on him. He swings and misses at the third strike, but it barely touches the ground before being caught.

Now as I understand it, this entitled him to run for first base. But he didn't. Instead he informed the umpire that the ball had touched the ground (apparently the ump didn't see that) and, rather than being sent to first base, was given another pitch to swing at (what . . . ?). Ironically, he again struck out on a ball in the dirt and this time was thrown out at first base.

I have never seen this situation before and can't find any reference to it. Are there any baseball fan FReepers who know why this third-strike-not-caught got the batter an extra pitch rather than a chance to reach first base?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Hobbies; Reference; Sports
KEYWORDS: baseball; inquiry; mlb; obscurerules
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1 posted on 04/05/2012 1:26:03 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Foul tip.
If the catcher catches it before it hits the ground—it’s strike three.
If it hits the ground—foul ball.


2 posted on 04/05/2012 1:28:17 PM PDT by San Jacinto
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Could he have been arguing that he barely tipped it foul instead of it being a clean swing and miss? That’s the only thing I can think of.


3 posted on 04/05/2012 1:29:33 PM PDT by Carlucci
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To: Zionist Conspirator
He has two strikes on him. He swings and misses at the third strike, but it barely touches the ground before being caught.

That sounds like an out to me.
4 posted on 04/05/2012 1:30:06 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Sounds like a foul tip to me.

Cheers


5 posted on 04/05/2012 1:31:14 PM PDT by DoctorBulldog (Obama Sucks!!!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Only thing i can think of is the ump may have thought Davis tipped it. Sounds weird but umps get it wrong a few times a year. I’m sure someone else was watching the game. Santana looked good anyway.


6 posted on 04/05/2012 1:31:37 PM PDT by Karliner ( Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28, Romans 8:38"...this is the end of the beginning."WC)
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To: San Jacinto

You’re right, had to be a foul tip that hit the ground before the catcher caught it.


7 posted on 04/05/2012 1:32:51 PM PDT by khenrich (And people thought Jimmy Carter was our worst president........)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Ump called a foul tip. Musta been.


8 posted on 04/05/2012 1:39:56 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: San Jacinto

Umps usually go by sound on a foul tip. Did the home plate ump make the call himself or did he ask for help from one of the other umpires?


9 posted on 04/05/2012 1:43:34 PM PDT by THX 1138 ("Harry, I have a gift.")
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To: All
Thanks everybody. I didn't get the foul tip part (if that's what it was).

We all know that in baseball not only do the rules have exceptions, but even the exceptions have exceptions.

10 posted on 04/05/2012 1:43:41 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I thought you were going to ask Skip’s favorite question. “What’s the infield fly rule?” :)

OT: my favorite Skip Carey hot mike moment was after a young girl sang the National Anthem. It was not pretty. Skip said what everyone was thinking, “My God! That was awful!”

That was Skip. :)


11 posted on 04/05/2012 1:46:23 PM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: Zionist Conspirator

The first two foul balls count as strikes, after that fouls are ignored unless caught.


12 posted on 04/05/2012 1:48:21 PM PDT by stormer
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To: Zionist Conspirator

On a third strike if the ball gets away from the catcher the batter can try to run to first. If he beats the throw to first he is safe and the inning continues even though the batter is officially “out”.


13 posted on 04/05/2012 1:48:30 PM PDT by AceMineral (Some people are too stupid for their own good.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Strike 3 has to be caught by the catcher regardless if it was tipped or not. If it hits the ground the runner can run to first and the catcher will have to throw him out just as if he got a hit.

I hate referring anyone to wiki but it is explained well on this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncaught_third_strike


14 posted on 04/05/2012 1:50:52 PM PDT by barmag25
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I’m with the crew that thinks a foul tip, so the HPU gave it to him. it’s the only way the scenario makes sense that you have described.


15 posted on 04/05/2012 1:52:36 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature ($1.84 - The price of a gallon of gas on Jan. 20th, 2009.)
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To: barmag25

How about if first base is occupied? Does the catcher still have to catch a strike for it to be an out.


16 posted on 04/05/2012 1:59:35 PM PDT by Rik0Shay
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To: AceMineral

Well, the official scorekeeper marks that as the batter bing on 1st base via K-e2 (Strikeout, batter reaching first on an error by the catcher).

The batter is credited on his stats with a strikeout (not an Out).


17 posted on 04/05/2012 2:03:28 PM PDT by Bush_Democrat (Breitbart sent me)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

The more serious question is: what were you doing watching the Mets game?


18 posted on 04/05/2012 2:03:45 PM PDT by campaignPete R-CT (and we are still campaigning against MITT in CT.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Foul tip.


19 posted on 04/05/2012 2:03:48 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Rik0Shay

With less than 2 outs, if 1st base is occupied, the batter is out regardless if the catcher throws to first or not. The baserunner can advance at his own peril.


20 posted on 04/05/2012 2:05:43 PM PDT by Bush_Democrat (Breitbart sent me)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

And let me not pass up the opportunity to say ...

Pete Rose belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame ...

And Bud Selig is a THUG.


21 posted on 04/05/2012 2:05:59 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Rik0Shay

Yes. If first base is occupied the runner can only advance if there are two outs. If only one out or no outs the batter is automatically out. I have always thought this was a weird rule. Strike out is a strike out to me.

6.09
The batter becomes a runner when —
(a) He hits a fair ball;
(b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out;
Rule 6.09(b) Comment: A batter who does not realize his situation on a third strike not caught, and who is not in the process of running to first base, shall be declared out once he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate.


22 posted on 04/05/2012 2:08:36 PM PDT by barmag25
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To: BuckeyeTexan

i agree. Let him in!!!


23 posted on 04/05/2012 2:10:02 PM PDT by barmag25
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To: Zionist Conspirator

as a fully trained and certified little league umpire, I can say for certain, that the ump in question has the IQ of a misquitoe.... 3 strikes you’re out... if you choose to swing at a ball in the dirt, that is your problem...


24 posted on 04/05/2012 2:10:32 PM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Pete Rose belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

If he had merely done drugs, instead of gambling, he would be.

25 posted on 04/05/2012 2:11:13 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: BuckeyeTexan
And let me not pass up the opportunity to say ...

Pete Rose belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame ...

Certainly as much as Ty Cobb or Tris Speaker.

And Bud Selig is a THUG.

He's ruined baseball. I miss Bowie Kuhn!

26 posted on 04/05/2012 2:11:47 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: campaignPete R-CT
The more serious question is: what were you doing watching the Mets game?

That's the "First Place Mets" (all peace and blessings be upon them...)

Death to the Phillies! Death to the Braves!

27 posted on 04/05/2012 2:12:49 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT
The more serious question is: what were you doing watching the Mets game?

Rooting for the Mets. And they won! By a score of one to nothing!

It was just like Carl Hubbell! Except a lot messier.

28 posted on 04/05/2012 2:13:39 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

At the very least they should open a Girly-Whining Hall of Fame for him, for sure.


29 posted on 04/05/2012 2:14:06 PM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

He could also be in the “Most Fake Memoriabilia Sold to Gullible Fans” Hall of Fame!


30 posted on 04/05/2012 2:17:19 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: joe fonebone
as a fully trained and certified little league umpire, I can say for certain, that the ump in question has the IQ of a misquitoe.... 3 strikes you’re out... if you choose to swing at a ball in the dirt, that is your problem...

That's what I thought. And as I said, he finally did strike out and get put out at first on an uncaught third strike. But I thought this happened twice, with the ump merely giving him another pitch to hit the first time.

The announcers didn't act as if anything unusual had happened. I'm going to have to assume, as have many who have answered, that the first one was a foul tip.

31 posted on 04/05/2012 2:17:43 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

If the third strike is not caught and the runner reaches first the pitcher gets recorded for the strike out but the team does not get to record the out. Below is an article from last season with the pitcher recording four strikeouts in an inning.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-25/burnett-becomes-first-new-york-yankee-to-strike-out-4-in-single-inning.html


32 posted on 04/05/2012 2:18:20 PM PDT by barmag25
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I did not see the call... if he foul tipped, the ump would have immediately signaled so.... and yes sound is an important part of that decision.. if he hesitated, then he was waiting for the ump behind the pitcher to give him a ruling... either way, this ump should not officiate another game.. home ump is the key, and decisions right or wrong have to be made immediately..what did the ump signal?


33 posted on 04/05/2012 2:23:25 PM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
He swings and misses at the third strike, but it barely touches the ground before being caught.

A Schwing and a miss on the third strike is a strike out if the catcher catches the pitched ball regardless if it hits the ground or not.....

34 posted on 04/05/2012 2:23:25 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (No matter what you post here, someone's going to get pissed off......)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Tigers beat the Bosox 3-2. Now for slaying the Yankees. Again.


35 posted on 04/05/2012 2:23:51 PM PDT by cookcounty (Tigers Smash Yankees ---again!)
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To: joe fonebone
Correction: I recall that the second time the announcer said "he caught it that time" (I assumed he meant the catcher, though of course the catcher also caught the first one).

It got me to thinking there was some ultra-arcane rule about uncaught-third-strikes getting batters an extra pitch to hit rather than a chance to take first base in certain situations.

36 posted on 04/05/2012 2:24:55 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Hot Tabasco

yes and no... the batter can run if the ball hits the ground.. he is technically still out, but can get to and stay on first base.... most teams teach their catchers to touch the batter on strike three, regardless...... this puts the batter out no matter what


37 posted on 04/05/2012 2:26:32 PM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
was given another pitch to swing at (

Then the pitch you are refering to was deemed by the umpire as a foul tip..no brainer really.

38 posted on 04/05/2012 2:27:24 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (No matter what you post here, someone's going to get pissed off......)
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To: Hot Tabasco
A Schwing and a miss on the third strike is a strike out if the catcher catches the pitched ball regardless if it hits the ground or not.....

Yes, but the batter is entitled to try to take first base because the ball hit the ground before being caught (nevertheless, it still counts as a strikeout). But that's not what happened. Instead the batter got an extra pitch to hit which ironically ended just this way.

39 posted on 04/05/2012 2:28:00 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

Pete Rose fans collectively laugh in your face.

Major League Records:

Most career hits – 4,256
Most career outs – 10,328
Most career games played – 3,562
Most career at bats – 14,053
Most career singles – 3,215
Most career runs by a switch hitter – 2,165
Most career doubles by a switch hitter – 746
Most career walks by a switch hitter – 1,566
Most career total bases by a switch hitter – 5,752
Most seasons of 200 or more hits – 10 (shared)
Most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits – 23
Most consecutive seasons with 600 or more at bats – 13 (1968–1980)
Most seasons with 600 at bats – 17
Most seasons with 150 or more games played – 17
Most seasons with 100 or more games played – 23
Record for playing in the most winning games – 1,972
Only player in major league history to play more than 500 games at five different positions – 1B (939), LF (671), 3B (634), 2B (628), RF (595)

National League records:
Most years played – 24
Most consecutive years played – 24
Most career runs – 2,165
Most career doubles – 746
Most career games with 5 or more hits – 10
Modern (post-1900) NL record for longest consecutive game hitting streak NL – 44
Modern record for most consecutive hitting streaks of 20 or more games – 7

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.


40 posted on 04/05/2012 2:31:01 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

it sounds like the catcher did not catch the first “strike three”. If it is a tip, the catcher has to catch it before it hits the ground. Or catch it clean, without touching the ground.


41 posted on 04/05/2012 2:31:01 PM PDT by campaignPete R-CT (and we are still campaigning against MITT in CT.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
he informed the umpire that the ball had touched the ground

ROFLMAO! The reason your statement is so funny is because a batter only offers advice AFTER the umpire makes his call and it never even comes close to civility..........lol!

42 posted on 04/05/2012 2:31:41 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (No matter what you post here, someone's going to get pissed off......)
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To: joe fonebone
I did not see the call... if he foul tipped, the ump would have immediately signaled so.... and yes sound is an important part of that decision.. if he hesitated, then he was waiting for the ump behind the pitcher to give him a ruling... either way, this ump should not officiate another game.. home ump is the key, and decisions right or wrong have to be made immediately..what did the ump signal?

He signaled a strikeout, but even then Davis should have run for first base. Instead Davis told the ump it had hit the ground (I assume the ump didn't catch this) and he was given another pitch to hit.

I understand the "uncaught-third-strike rule." What I don't understand is why an uncaught third strike would result in a batter being given another pitch to hit rather than merely being tagged out by the catcher to finish the out.

43 posted on 04/05/2012 2:33:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

a foul tip is when the ball hits the bat. With 2 strikes, a foul tip is just another foul ball, unless the catcher catches it clean.


44 posted on 04/05/2012 2:33:22 PM PDT by campaignPete R-CT (and we are still campaigning against MITT in CT.)
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To: joe fonebone
the batter can run if the ball hits the ground..

NOT on a foul tip.......It's a foul ball and all applicable rules regarding foul balls apply.......

A schwing and a miss on a third strike is an out even if it's in the dirt just as long as the catcher catches it.........but it's apparent in this case that the schwing was a foul tip.

45 posted on 04/05/2012 2:37:02 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (No matter what you post here, someone's going to get pissed off......)
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To: campaignPete R-CT
it sounds like the catcher did not catch the first “strike three”. If it is a tip, the catcher has to catch it before it hits the ground. Or catch it clean, without touching the ground.

Um . . . I know all this. But the catcher didn't clean catch it and instead of tagging the batter or the batter running for first the umpire gave him another pitch to hit.

Maybe it really was a foul tip.

46 posted on 04/05/2012 2:38:11 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: cripplecreek

If it touches the ground on a third strike regardless if it did so just a tinsey winsey wittle bit it still is a foul ball.


47 posted on 04/05/2012 2:42:04 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Hey Mitt, F-you too pal)
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To: Protect the Bill of Rights

I do miss Skip, Pete, and Ernie. They were like family.

I don’t remember hearing Milo, but, I remember him being a Braves announcer.

My favorite baseball story was told by Ernie Johnston.

He was pitching in a world series game to Mickey Mantle and threw his best pitch. Mantle hit a foul tip and Ernie swore that he smelled smoke! I believe him. Ernie wasn’t a bad pitcher at all.


48 posted on 04/05/2012 2:42:57 PM PDT by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
You will probably want to skip over all this incomprehensible newfangled "base-ball" stuff and get back to the rules of cricket, or rounders, or town ball, stool ball, tut ball, or old cat.

Or straight back to the old French games of la soule, thèque, la balle au bâton, and la balle empoisonnée. Maybe you will find the real thing there.

49 posted on 04/05/2012 2:43:26 PM PDT by x
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Rukle 1-the umpire is always right

Rule 2-if you think the umpire is wrong, see rule 1.


50 posted on 04/05/2012 2:44:30 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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